RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (Full Version)

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DarkSteven -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 6:55:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I guess that I have an issue with the word "willing".  That implies that he's being led to be a Dom, and that he's okay with it.

If you expose a man to D/s and he realizes that he IS that way, excellent.  But if it's a case of "Gee, I guess I could do that", he's not a Dom.

A Dom WANTS to be a Dom and once exposed to it, will take the initiative to learn.  Someone who is "willing" and no more, would be at best a service Top, someone who will take the initiative in scenes only, because it pleases his partner.



Fair enough, but it's not the willingness of the Dom to learn (which is a given), but rather the willingness of Subbies to teach, that I'm interested in.


I still have an issue with how it's presented.

If the man is a Dom who simply never knew about it, then just letting hi know it exists and where to find out more will do it.  I cannot imagine any sub not willing to do that much.

If she has to "teach", then he is not a Dom.  To me, teaching implies her continuing to take the lead over time.

If she has to show him how to Dom HER, then that's fine.  But showing him how to BE a Dom, how to Dom in general... no way.

Also, I can't imagine it working.  This implies that she has an idea of how he should Dom her, and he is too passive to learn it any other way.  If he ever DOES get to be a real Dom, he'll do it HIS way.  That's where relationships start to fall apart because the dynamics have changed.




juliaoceania -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 7:56:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Twoshoes

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff
I see a difference between leadership and dominance,
It is almost cliché how many "people who are "powerful" in their jobs wish to be dominated in their personal/sexual lives.


I absolutely agree with this. I have leadership skills aplenty, but I am not a dominant.




Opposite.

But when people talk of leadership, they are generally referring to only specific types of leadership of a beaurocratic nature.

When I have to lead for example, I do it by keeping people happy and inspired.

I've read that I only make a good leader if you need a revolutionary or a politician. Luckily, I'm quite handy at delivering emotional speeches.


I have people naturally follow me. In other words something happens where someone is looked to for guidance, to lead the way, etc... I am often the person everyone looks to when stuff isn't working out right...

I don't give speeches and I am not thinking about inspiring people a lot. I am not saying that I don't inspire people by my example, but that isn't what I am trying to do.




Jeffff -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 8:04:35 AM)

The nature of my job makes me a leader at work. I lead by example and by direct orders.

People do what I tell them to or they lose their jobs, it is that simple. A large part of my job is to inspire their best efforts and to teach them how to do the job as I see fit.

On the surface that seems very similar to dominance. However, I would never think of treating someone I cared about in the same fashion as someone who works for me.

In my relationships, there are things that are negotiated. There are lines that simply will not be crossed.

On the job, once it is accepted they do what the fuck I tell them to or they get the fuck out.

It is possible, even probable, that many Dom's do the same thing. I am just posting my own experience.




laurell3 -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 8:48:39 AM)

quote:

All good advice, but again you seem to be under the impression I didn't know all of this. Let me see if I can clarify; I have to DESERVE to be her Dom/Master/whatever: that means she'd serve me happily because I've made her feel loved, cherished, protected, provided for etc. If anything Laurell, my difficulties with being a Dom would stem from me being TOO soft-hearted with her. I know me, though I'd be the one giving the orders she'd know damn well I needed her as much, or likely MORE than she needed me, and she'd know that from shedloads of intimate conversations, heart-to-hearts, and a lot of tears, both the sad and the happy kinds - and not all of them are gonna be hers.

Shit...I just read that twice, I can't believe I just wrote such a personal bunch of stuff to strangers, but I'll stick with it in that 'Publish and be damned' ethos.


Ok, so we're kind of missing the boat here huh? Your concern is that you won't be "dominant enough"? That you have to employ certain domly actions and words or you are too soft-hearted? That's what I'm reading from this quote below and by the way, I wouldn't be worried about THAT being sharing too much, believe me, people post MUCH more revealing personal things here and you're still talking about theory, I don't see that as overly personal.

If that is your concern, I do think it's realistic to an extent. I know that you want to separate the dom from the man in your other posts/threads, but you really can't. This isn't that much unlike vanilla dating. I don't feel submissive because of certain actions, protocols or words. That feeling comes from trust, security and safety. Actually KNOWING who the man is without a bunch of "method" bullshit is much more conducive to true intimacy and trust for me.

Your relationship can have as much or as little structure and protocol as you want. There's no set formula. I think your earlier post about taking an inventory of sorts with a conversation about where you are and what the expectations are is a great idea. Honestly, I wouldn't worry much about not being the mysterious "dominant" concept. Be what you are. That guy in that paragraph above is someone that I think many people would be comfortable following because he allows himself to be vulnerable and real instead of some cookie cutter stereotype. At the end of the day the majority of relationships are about real life and supporting each other, not fun and games.






juliaoceania -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 8:59:08 AM)

quote:

Ok, so we're kind of missing the boat here huh? Your concern is that you won't be "dominant enough"? That you have to employ certain domly actions and words or you are too soft-hearted? That's what I'm reading from this quote below and by the way, I wouldn't be worried about THAT being sharing too much, believe me, people post MUCH more revealing personal things here and you're still talking about theory, I don't see that as overly personal.

If that is your concern, I do think it's realistic to an extent. I know that you want to separate the dom from the man in your other posts/threads, but you really can't. This isn't that much unlike vanilla dating. I don't feel submissive because of certain actions, protocols or words. That feeling comes from trust, security and safety. Actually KNOWING who the man is without a bunch of "method" bullshit is much more conducive to true intimacy and trust for me.

Your relationship can have as much or as little structure and protocol as you want. There's no set formula. I think your earlier post about taking an inventory of sorts with a conversation about where you are and what the expectations are is a great idea. Honestly, I wouldn't worry much about not being this illusive "dominant" concept. Be what you are. That guy in that paragraph above is someone that I think many people would be comfortable following because he allows himself to be vulnerable and real instead of some cookie cutter stereotype.



I liked this post.... I think it is good advice and insightful to the OPer's dilemma. I would like to add that in my mind the most dominant thing a man can do is decide what sort of relationship works for HIM and find a submissive that desires the same levels of control, protocol, etc. Instead of trying to figure out how to get her to be submissive, or make her stay submissive...

The threads that jaybee has posted kinda dovetail with each other in that he seems to be wanting to know how this control thing works in the mind of the submissive.. well we are all pretty different. The voice of my first dom made me a puddle of submissive goo. The intimacy of ideas made me feel submissive to my second dom. The one I am seeing now, it is the fact he does not take "no" for an answer and he expects that he will always get his way, and he seemingly does... There is no magical recipe that makes people connect in a D/s way... and it isn't experience (or lack of it) that made any of the dominants I have involved myself with appealing to me. It was that thing called "chemistry"... and no one has figured out how that works completely




NymphetamineGirl -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 12:26:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

We ALL train each other on how to proceed every single time we enter into a new relationship.


This.

A man can be naturally dominant and still have a ton of work to do on a personal level to unlock the emotional barriers that prevent the dynamic from developing.  He has to want dominance bad enough to bother with it, and the sub has to want him enough to be patient through it.  So my answer would be yes, with a few quid pro quos.  Also, I'm not qualified to teach anyone.




leadership527 -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 1:28:01 PM)

Yeah... everything that Laurell just said (really, really nicely put laurell)

I'll add this. I'm not "harsh" with Carol. There is no part of our dynamic which is "dark". That being said, it is the job of a leader to be unpopular. Sometimes I make decisions which she doesn't like. Sometimes she doesn't like them A LOT. I don't make these decisions because I'm sadistic. I don't make them because I just like playing games with her. I make them because it's what I believe to be best for our marriage. There are times when she strongly disagrees. That's part of the job. Both Carol and I know that.

As long as Carol believes that I am making those decisions with her best interests at the forefront of my mind, then all is well even if it does piss her off. She's not a child.

So to sum it up, you can't really be "soft" and be a "good leader" at the same time. But there's no need to be "dark", "sadistic", "harsh", etc.




Jeffff -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 1:29:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

So to sum it up, you can't really be "soft" and be a "good leader" at the same time. But there's no need to be "dark", "sadistic", "harsh", etc.



This!




Jaybeee -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 2:52:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

quote:

All good advice, but again you seem to be under the impression I didn't know all of this. Let me see if I can clarify; I have to DESERVE to be her Dom/Master/whatever: that means she'd serve me happily because I've made her feel loved, cherished, protected, provided for etc. If anything Laurell, my difficulties with being a Dom would stem from me being TOO soft-hearted with her. I know me, though I'd be the one giving the orders she'd know damn well I needed her as much, or likely MORE than she needed me, and she'd know that from shedloads of intimate conversations, heart-to-hearts, and a lot of tears, both the sad and the happy kinds - and not all of them are gonna be hers.

Shit...I just read that twice, I can't believe I just wrote such a personal bunch of stuff to strangers, but I'll stick with it in that 'Publish and be damned' ethos.


Ok, so we're kind of missing the boat here huh? Your concern is that you won't be "dominant enough"? That you have to employ certain domly actions and words or you are too soft-hearted? That's what I'm reading from this quote below and by the way, I wouldn't be worried about THAT being sharing too much, believe me, people post MUCH more revealing personal things here and you're still talking about theory, I don't see that as overly personal.

If that is your concern, I do think it's realistic to an extent. I know that you want to separate the dom from the man in your other posts/threads, but you really can't. This isn't that much unlike vanilla dating. I don't feel submissive because of certain actions, protocols or words. That feeling comes from trust, security and safety. Actually KNOWING who the man is without a bunch of "method" bullshit is much more conducive to true intimacy and trust for me.

Your relationship can have as much or as little structure and protocol as you want. There's no set formula. I think your earlier post about taking an inventory of sorts with a conversation about where you are and what the expectations are is a great idea. Honestly, I wouldn't worry much about not being the mysterious "dominant" concept. Be what you are. That guy in that paragraph above is someone that I think many people would be comfortable following because he allows himself to be vulnerable and real instead of some cookie cutter stereotype. At the end of the day the majority of relationships are about real life and supporting each other, not fun and games.


First of all, Laurell, if you're as young as the eyes in your pic, you have an extremely good head on your shoulders for your age. Secondly, your man/Dom/Master is a damn lucky fella.

I have actually been pretty dominant with my previous girlfriends. It came naturally. I couldn't BE any other way, I could never be subservient to a woman, not with my background (though professionally I've worked under 3 Manageresses, 2 very successfully). I've led, loved, and been loved in all of them, and now I want to take that first step of FULL authority over a woman - yes, after of course she has seen me fit to exert it. To get my 'Masters Degree', if you don't mind the pun.

What inspired me to start this thread is that I'm intrigued as to what extent other Subs ever guide their Doms specifically how best to rule them. In hindsight, I should have phrased my question a damn sight better, for which I apologise to ALL, and asked instead, "Could/Would you volunteer to fine-tune your Dom's authority over you?" And it's a perfectly valid point of curiosity; I'd find it very, very appealing for a Sub to ask me (for example), "I'd really love to be (insert BDSM practice here). I would imagine some do, and some would see it as an assault on their Dom's authority.

Once again Laurell, thank you for the time you've spent so far in this. The combination of eloquence, intelligence and attentiveness you've brought is an extremely rare combination. It's appreciated, truly.

[:D]




DesFIP -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 2:57:22 PM)

Not to mention that if she is submissive, then you becoming vanilla because you're afraid of hurting her by being the leader will hurt her a hell of a lot more.

As leadership said, there is no requirement for being a cold, stern, heartless asshole. Making the tough decision because it has to be made is the role of the leader. So is giving her your shoulder to cry on while she deals with stuff, and if you're crying on hers as well, so much the better. It shows you did what had to be done but that you wish there had been an alternative also. There is nothing wrong with having emotions as long as you think decisions through.




laurell3 -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 5:34:46 PM)

Jaybee,

Thanks, I'm a very young 44. The Dom in the picture is the anteater in the post above you and yes, we're both very lucky to have each other.

The questions that you have are those that many that are starting out have. It's too often people get caught up in illusion and ignore the reality that we aren't so different from anyone else in life and then end up here saying did I mess up. The fact that you are willing to ask these questions beforehand and really try to get a feel for what is out there speaks volumes about your character. I think you'll be fine. Enjoy yourself and good luck!




Aileen1968 -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 5:43:14 PM)

I taught him everything he knows about Blackjack.
He's a much better master since then.




Jeffff -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 6:25:06 PM)

How could you see the cards when the table is so high?




Aileen1968 -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 6:29:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

How could you see the cards when the table is so high?


Size 5 1/2




Jeffff -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/12/2010 6:30:59 PM)

HAHAHAHA!

I'll double your savings account so you can buy more!


Monkey feet too huh?....:)






CaringandReal -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/13/2010 11:28:43 PM)


quote:

But if, say, you fell in love with a vanilla feller, and he was willing to become a Dom, do you think you would you be a good teacher? Or even a willing one?


I don't think I would ever fall in love with a vanilla man. He just doesn't have the sorts of traits or personality I tend to fall in love with.

All right, I'll imagine the near impossible... If I did, I'd feel wrong or bad teaching him. I'd feel like it was false in some way. I'd be happy to teach him about myself, my strong and weak points, but the dominance and control thing he'd have to figure out on his own. I tend to think that someone who cannot figure that stuff out on their own is not dominant and is fooling himself.




nephandi -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/14/2010 5:37:37 AM)

Greetings

I am not a slave now. However I would loose all faith in the dynamic if I had to teach my owner to be a Master. If he let something slide he let it slide. You can be your sweet behind that if I had told Aswad what he should and should not let slide when he owned me or I had tried to test him in such a way there would be quite uncomfortable consequences for me. Off course both Dom and sub and Master and slave or whatever combination you got will learn from one another, but I personally do not appreciate such topping from the bottom and I do not think I would respect any Dom that would tolerate it.

As for teaching a vanilla man to be a Dom or a Master, sure but not while in a relationship with that man. I know enough about this whole lifestyle I think to be able to give advice and help someone unto the path. But I would not want to submit to someone that I had to lead by the hand, that to me is reversing the roles. Now sometimes you have a vanilla relationship where one person want to submit to the other, if the other person is okey with that then great, but I think he or she should learn to be a Dom or a Master on his or her own or under someone else's guidance and not be let around by their sub. 

I wish you well.




sophiesback -> RE: Could/would you teach a willing man to be a Master? (8/14/2010 7:58:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee

Hi all,

As I mentioned in another question, I imagine there's a minimum standard of 'Masterfulness' that a potential partner must meet in advance. I also imagine there are times, with some of you, where you test your Master, he let's it slide and then you say, "You don't ever have to take that from me, you know. It's ok to put me in my place, hard". Furthermore, there are proaably those amongst you who feel that it is absolutlely none of your business, as a subbie/slave, to give your Master any form of guidance.

But if, say, you fell in love with a vanilla feller, and he was willing to become a Dom, do you think you would you be a good teacher? Or even a willing one?

I should add, by way of background, I am NOT asking for myself; I've got the Dom spirit to the brim.

:)

Your comments and thoughts welcome, ladies.


My former  "thought" he was a "natural" Dom/Master and needed noone to teach him/mentor him. Boy did I find out he was WRONG, and couldn't be happier about that now. I had a relationship with him before becoming his slave, just as I did with Master now. Actually, for several years they were both in my life, and Yes they knew about each other. I never revealed my twue subby/slave nature to my Master until about a year ago when my former had decided he'd no longer share me. When things didn't work out with my former, Master was there to pick up the pieces. Around 6 months later Master started asking questions about BDSM, M/s, etc., wanting to know what I was into, what I liked about it, etc. He loves me and wanted to learn about the things I liked. He already knew alot of the sexual side of what I was into because, well, we'd been together for years. I swear, even though I asked a friend to mentor him (at his request) He IS a NATURAL.   




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