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Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/19/2006 8:10:44 PM   
HayaSierra


Posts: 119
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: In Georgia
Status: offline 		Greetings everyone,

While I have posted a number of replies, I believe this is the first post I am starting myself here, so please bear with me. This is for ideas, and just to cover thoughts and feelings about something I am actually working hard to set up in real life, and what I could do with this....

One of the main things I'm planning with my Estate is to allow my slaves to have their own "slave" culture -- their own traditions if you will, and their own community on the grounds. While I have many of my own ideas for this, I'd like to toss out the whole thing to the community at large for ideas and input:

I've already got planned that while "Gambling" would be forbidden for those who are slaves at my house, games that are invented by themselves are permitted. While TV might not be something done a whole lot, entertainment around a fire-pit or inside hanging out and entertaining ourselves with stories, comedy, and various other activities are certainly ok. The focus here is on 'interpersonal' entertainment, instead of relying on outside sources so much.

We are likely going to start off with one house, and perhaps half a dozen individuals -- slowly growing and increasing the household until we come to the point where everyone is comfortable. The one thing about a Hanian style Estate is that where it works well with 5 people, it works even better with more than 5. I'm thinking, less focused on the sexuality of things, and more focused on the serving, slavery and being owned aspects. Focused on that those who are slaves at my household to not form bonds of friendship with the free predominately, but rather with other slaves. If I can get more females involved, even allowing them to date other slaves.

To do this I was thinking of, as we grow, to involve other Dominants that know the concepts I'm trying to use here as Elders (Nobles if you will) who carry Authority to run and aid the household, but to only have one Head of Household.

I want to make my Household a place where submissives can be comfortable in their servitude; happy slaves are more efficient.  There are so many niches to fill!  Lots of things to try out, too.  That's the main purpose of this thread--I'm hunting suggestions, comments, and general positive input whenever possible.  Nothing says this is going to be easy at all, but it will be worth it entirely!  I've seen what OtherWorld Kingdom has done, for instance, and I'm hoping to be a bit different.  Less fetish, less commercialism, more cooperation and community.

Happy hunting! 
--Haya

_____________________________

Haya Sierra
Haya Of Ka Azdor Estate --
http://groups.msn.com/Domsub/
Basic Information about the Hanian System of D/s
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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/19/2006 8:40:26 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		from experience, start off small with your Man and who ever you have in a collar. Use this to develop a physical micro group to which you add people to as other people show interest. Again I know from experience, people rarely share the same level of enthusiasm as to those who found something, so what you need to gain the interest and capture the heartd of sub/slave and Dominant is a working Home/Group albeit a micro one, which can be to your advantage too as many folks love to get in on the ground floor.....I could waffleon more but I want to brood and reorganise my thoughts to filter out what will not apply. I'm happy to talk to you on the other side in mail if you like too.......

Best of luck, I'm a romantic and love your plan.

Regards




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Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/20/2006 5:07:35 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline 		If you plan to do it with your estate, just remember to put in an alternative heir in the event your wishes are not complied with.  In most states, the lack of an alternative heir means the behest can be used in any way the heir wants and your will is considered just a suggestion.

When I was at ECU, I put aside the income from half a million of my estate to fund a chair with very specific requirements for the holder.  I added that if the holder did not meet these requirements, the money would go to the Red Cross.  Now, I don't like the Red Cross at all, but I know they employ the pit bulls of the legal profession so I knew they would carefully keep an eye on the situation to make sure the school complied.

It's a nice idea, but how about giving it a try while you are still alive.  It sounds a lot like what Jack McGeorge is planning.

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/20/2006 6:01:46 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
It sounds a lot like what Jack McGeorge is planning.

Well thanks for ruining my mood this morning.

I think the biggest issue would be turnover/how slaves were accepted into the estate.

Personally as a pop culture junkie, making movie groups and tv interest discussions would be pretty much on the top of the list for "slave culture" things to do.  So it wouldn't really fit in with your design.

Which is just to illustrate that you're talking about bringing a very specific type of slave into a very specific environment on a very large scale.  That's a lot of work.  It can be done, with the right time, resources, and management, but it's not easy.

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/20/2006 10:42:22 AM   
HayaSierra


Posts: 119
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: In Georgia
Status: offline 		Greetings,

John Warren and others.... Sorry, I think you might have misunderstood, perhaps I used the wrong word.

When I said Estate I didn't mean in a Mainstream way, it was a term used to refer to us setting up to eventually grow to a household of more than say 10 people. The reason I use the word in such a fashion is because when I say "House" or "Household" many will think that it might be set up to encompass only myself and perhaps 2-5 other individuals. There is a lot that will be going into this, and sadly, while I do make a good income, and have a few options for future Career furtherment, I am by no means rich at the moment. This means start off with one house, and work our way upwards to purchase open land and custom build what will be needed. Yes, it's from scratch, but I'm not doing this to get rich, but rather to allow people the chance to actually live their natures - fully and freely. Ok -- I'm a bit selfish as well, I'm planning to have a little fun along the way and get a bit pampered by some very nice slaves of mine :D.

I apologize for the confusion in this matter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren

If you plan to do it with your estate, just remember to put in an alternative heir in the event your wishes are not complied with.  In most states, the lack of an alternative heir means the behest can be used in any way the heir wants and your will is considered just a suggestion.



 

_____________________________

Haya Sierra
Haya Of Ka Azdor Estate --
http://groups.msn.com/Domsub/
Basic Information about the Hanian System of D/s

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/20/2006 11:31:25 AM   
HayaSierra


Posts: 119
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: In Georgia
Status: offline 		Greetings IronBear and others,

Thank you so much for your ideas and suggestions, IronBear.  I respect Goreans for the work you all have done with your Houses; in fact from what I can see, the Gorean Masters are one of the only groups of BDSM-types who even have something remotely like what I am attempting to establish.  I, for one, would be honored if you would be willing to correspond with me privately via CM E-mail, or even personal e-mail about the matter. I know you likely will know more of the challenges I am likely to face, and could perhaps keep me from making major mistakes in the process.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

from experience, start off small with your Man and who ever you have in a collar. Use this to develop a physical micro group to which you add people to as other people show interest.



This is the one thing I was already settling on, to start slow, especially when it comes time to move people into the Household/Estate -- because I figured that I would need an awesome base group of people to start off with.

The hardest thing was to find a locale where growth would be possible and where we already had someone with their foot in the door so to speak. This left us with Florida and Kansas.  Florida was good, but the real estate prices left a lot left to be desired as to being able to expand. Just a simple set-up of say two residences would have cost almost a million -- and this just does not fly.  In Kansas there are problems with finding employment -- but we have that issue fairly under control as of now, so I chose Kansas :).

quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

Again I know from experience, people rarely share the same level of enthusiasm as to those who found something, so what you need to gain the interest and capture the heartd of sub/slave and Dominant is a working Home/Group albeit a micro one, which can be to your advantage too as many folks love to get in on the ground floor.....I could waffleon more but I want to brood and reorganise my thoughts to filter out what will not apply. I'm happy to talk to you on the other side in mail if you like too.......

Best of luck, I'm a romantic and love your plan.



Thank you very much again, IronBear, and yes, I agree.  I will be needing a very dedicated and strong working Home/Group in order to pull this off.  As for getting others involved, I'll probably be hosting visits and Events of various types to let people get a taste of what we've got.

Some more thoughts I had about this a while ago and was already planning on:

-Area Prices:  Real Estate is cheap here!  We're finding Houses for $20,000 - 30,000 and acreage is reasonable as well.  People are moving out of this area, and it is already considered 'Frontier' -- so lots of chances for growth here. There are few enough people in the area that privacy, once we buy actual land, can almost be guaranteed. This is also a good place because we don't really have a lot of crime here, and people are friendly.  While people are not necessarily D/s friendly, they are quite "Hanian" - friendly (the Household is part of a larger project I am working on, and people are very friendly towards that).  By using the idea of buying land and custom-building what we need or contracting said labor out if we can't get it done in-house will allow us more flexibility and customization. We're toying with the idea of not only building above-ground, but also underground for dungeons and the like.

-Business + Jobs: While jobs are low in this local area (FarmLand) my Beloved has been involved in the satellite business for over a year now and is a certified technician.  He can now train others, and we are looking into training at least 2 of my slaves into this field in the next 2 years. Also, there is a large employer about 20 miles from our location that has steady and relatively-well paying jobs, that just about always need help. Between that and Dodge City being close, we should have enough income coming in at all times to be able to grow.  This does not even count what we might be able to start setting up online down the road, or what I can drag into the house via my Dancing career, writing, or even potentially me having a few clients down the road to come play in my dungeon.  

-Pooled resources: One of the major aspects I am working towards early is the fact that we will be pooling resources. For one thing, there are only so many things of each appliance/technological thing we will be needing. We can not only figure out what would work best, but also pool income and resources to buy better-quality items for all of us to use. Example: 5 Cars, or 2 Cars and a good Van? 10 sets of mediocre Silverware and Dinnerware, or ONE good set for say 10 people? These show some of the options we will be having even with a House of say ten people. This may also prove helpful for subscriptions and things like health-insurance and the like.

-Orchard/Greenhouse: Already looked into the possibilities for this, and being Kansas, this is a lot more realistic here than in say NYC.  Already found ways to purchase all items needed for enough of an Orchard for, say, a 20-person Household, Friends and Guests for about 400-450$ and about 2 years for it to grow properly -- just enough time for us to grow as well.

These are just the tip of the iceberg, but I can see already that we have a really big potential.

Haya Sierra ---

_____________________________

Haya Sierra
Haya Of Ka Azdor Estate --
http://groups.msn.com/Domsub/
Basic Information about the Hanian System of D/s

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/20/2006 11:46:47 AM   
HayaSierra


Posts: 119
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: In Georgia
Status: offline 		Greetings everyone,

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

I think the biggest issue would be turnover/how slaves were accepted into the estate.



Turnover could be a problem, but I have actually worked hard at trying to match the right type of folks with my household, and continue to screen carefully. As for being accepted I've made an application process, and will sit down and answer lots of questions from those who think they might be interested in something like this. Furthermore, I will be giving people a chance to get to know me and the others involved before committing to moving here. Things like visits and events will likely prove very helpful in this area.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Personally as a pop culture junkie, making movie groups and tv interest discussions would be pretty much on the top of the list for "slave culture" things to do.  So it wouldn't really fit in with your design.

Which is just to illustrate that you're talking about bringing a very specific type of slave into a very specific environment on a very large scale.  That's a lot of work.  It can be done, with the right time, resources, and management, but it's not easy.


Yes, LuckyAlbatross, it is a lot of work, because I do need very specific types of slaves for this, and even once it comes to having Dominants helping out -- I will need very specific Dominants as well.  I suspect there will be a lot of people who may come thinking they will like it, and then discover that it is not what they are seeking. In fact, I've had this happen already -- so early in the endeavor.  An open mind is a necessity for all involved, and even with a community as big as the BDSM community the task of finding the right people is a job in itself already. Then there is training, culture building, reverse-migration support, and much more to keep in mind as well. This is why I had to make sure I actually wanted to do this bad enough, and that my motives were not money or anything but sincerely trying to do this.  And I'm happy that I'm the type who is not afraid to try something new :D.

Haya Sierra ---


_____________________________

Haya Sierra
Haya Of Ka Azdor Estate --
http://groups.msn.com/Domsub/
Basic Information about the Hanian System of D/s

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/20/2006 12:20:37 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnWarren
It sounds a lot like what Jack McGeorge is planning.

Well thanks for ruining my mood this morning.


Well, my dear, I am a consensual sadist... and I consented [evil laugh]

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/20/2006 12:22:15 PM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HayaSierra

Greetings,

John Warren and others.... Sorry, I think you might have misunderstood, perhaps I used the wrong word.

When I said Estate I didn't mean in a Mainstream way, it was a term used to refer to us setting up to eventually grow to a household of more than say 10 people


Sorry, too many hours in financial management groups.  Fidelity rocks but they can bury one in information.


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www.lovingdominant.org

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/20/2006 2:31:23 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		I was just thinking... have you considered pole barns? Yes, from the outside they look like.... wellllll.... barns, but you can finish them off to suit you on the inside.

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/22/2006 5:52:32 PM   
MistressDREAD


Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Check the laws in your choosen community in great detail. The City, County, an State laws befor making investments even into property as to whats accepted and not. (There is good cheap land to be had still in Polk County in Florida in the Frost Proof area but it will not last. jobs are plenty and acceptance is negotiable. AND NO SNOW!)Check for like groups in the community and groups who might be against your ideas and address them befor investment into anything so you will see what kind of battles you will have to face there. Find property thats zoned multiresidential so that you can expand with out variances and also use the abode towards any business ventures with 25 percent of the dwelling. Invest in one member at least going back to school to learn computer sciences and business so that you can have an online business that will finance you in lean times in rual areas in real time. Buy property that has an abundance of mature timber so that in lean times 25 percent of it can be sold outright for lumber. Plant food gardens right away with the basics in it. Enjoy all things together and pull away from the more modern things that tend to set people apart or keep people from doing anything for themselfs like cooking meals for all together. Power of Attorneys, Power of Medical Attentions, Legal name changes and the like need to be made for the future and security of the group as well. Id put a 2 year and 5 year and 10 year plan in place just like you would for a business so that you have a physical diveboard to pull from and others can look at to know where all are working towards. OK thats just sum things off the top of My head that I use for My Homestone and Family.

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/22/2006 5:59:09 PM   
Phoenixandnika


Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline 		How about prefabed homes there are some rather unique styles out there now some that you can get kits for and are basically like gaint puzzles.
 
I would also suggest strongly that you check out zoning and local laws. Many communities that I know would go ballistic if they knew such "estate" was going up in their neighborhood or even county.
 
Nika{Phoenix}


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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/22/2006 7:16:28 PM   
theRose4U


Posts: 3403
Joined: 8/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I would also suggest strongly that you check out zoning and local laws. Many communities that I know would go ballistic if they knew such "estate" was going up in their neighborhood or even county. 


To a point I agree. In rural areas a "block" of houses close together with pole barns for farm animals to support themselves (free range eggs, chicken, market cows) are not at all unusual. HOWEVER, the idea of inviting even like minded people home to play in your dungeon is something that you should be very very careful with. As with all things in this lifestyle it only takes one person to go to the media with the spin of communal living (think David Koresh) that includes slavery (think case here in Denver where couple is now having to pay their slave $60,000 in back wages for her nanny services as well as an undisclosed amount for physical and emotional "injuries"). Humans are what they are, all the contracts and understandings in the world won't protect you legally or financially if someone has a bone to pick and tries to use it to their advantage.

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/23/2006 10:43:49 AM   
HayaSierra


Posts: 119
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: In Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

I was just thinking... have you considered pole barns? Yes, from the outside they look like.... wellllll.... barns, but you can finish them off to suit you on the inside.


Greetings everyone,

Yes, if it is what I am thinking -- a barn that is converted to a dungeon and even if needed as a "slave-quarters" style of place this has not only been considered, but we have actually rigged a temporary building up in this fashion. It is good enough for some serious play, but also secure enough to keep someone in there. The only thing that is of potential concerns is temperatures -- which tend to go from one extreme to the other extreme in very short time here in Kansas. We have a themometer in the actual place to enable us to check for potential problems, and would not leave anyone by themselves there for longer than say 10-20 minutes on a loose tether. It will need a lot more work, but we've been checking into that sort of thing, and it looks like with just a little bit of work it will work well.

As for what we used, it was just a room of a regular storage barn. All wood, and heavy/strong wood at that.

And farm outbuildings have just SOOO much potential and so many options all in all for the serious Owner :D.

Haya Sierra --- 

_____________________________

Haya Sierra
Haya Of Ka Azdor Estate --
http://groups.msn.com/Domsub/
Basic Information about the Hanian System of D/s

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/23/2006 10:59:02 AM   
HayaSierra


Posts: 119
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: In Georgia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressDREAD

Check the laws in your choosen community in great detail.
 
OK thats just sum things off the top of My head that I use for My Homestone and Family.


Thank you Mistress Dread,

I love your ideas very much and will be using them. I was already thinking of doing a garden fairly soon, as well as pulling away from the more modern things in some areas of life. However, I was not considering into turning us amish -- I do like technology a lot :).  

Phoenixandnika,

Thank you as well. As for what types of building style we will use I am not certain as of yet, the only thing I know is that we will be also including underground play and use areas. As for the community, we will be careful in how we involve them, and will try to avoid too much involvement of outsiders, especially at the beginning. We are also working on how to properly present ourselves to the mainstream outsiders, since the focus of a Hanian Estate House is not only on BDSM or even on M/s. 

TheRose4u,

Thank you as well, and yes, a block of houses with barns and the like, farm animals and fields galore does not stick out around here at all. In fact, this being farming country, there is a lot of that around -- and there is even still active farming going on all around me. It's a quiet area, and people stay to themselves for the most part.

As for "inviting" like minded locals to my dungeon areas to play ... ohh no, this won't occur anytime soon, in fact it may never occur. Whenever the local community and the Estate meet for any reason whatsoever, we have our established rules and protocol we would follow for interactions, and true and tested ways of how to explain what they might be seeing from a cultural standpoint of view. In fact, I have done such explaining already to people I know here in the local area, people who have never heard of the BDSM community, and they have been awfully openminded about it. This is because for the Estate it is about more than just communial style living, and about more than "slavery" -- and while we are no where ready to get any sort of heavy local support yet, we are working on this with a fine-toothed comb. :).

Haya Sierra --- 

_____________________________

Haya Sierra
Haya Of Ka Azdor Estate --
http://groups.msn.com/Domsub/
Basic Information about the Hanian System of D/s

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RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/23/2006 11:38:56 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		Hi, 

i read the OP and i just wanted to say it sounds fantastic.  Reminds me abit of the old style Manor's of the great 1800 century and of course father back then that.  Even the 20th century had something similiar, called servants (and even they called the head of the household Master), but of course on a much more personal level.  i generally perfer books based on the period of time were people generally lived as such.  Heck even harems were similiar.  You could always try reading up on some history to get "ideas" from. 

(in reply to HayaSierra)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Communities, and large Families.... Ideas welcome! - 4/23/2006 12:18:25 PM   
HayaSierra


Posts: 119
Joined: 4/7/2005
From: In Georgia
Status: offline 		Greetings,

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i read the OP and i just wanted to say it sounds fantastic.  Reminds me abit of the old style Manor's of the great 1800 century and of course father back then that. 



RiotGirl, yes, I was looking a little into history with what I was planning. Sadly all the cases in History I can find have had to do with unconsensual servitude, but the set-ups were interesting and quite workable for the most part. Those which are more consensual in current times are often more smaller scale than what I am planning, but also have a few things in them that can be used in my project. Because I am after something slightly different is why I tend to shy away from "fetishes" in regards to my plans, and keep it more focused on the servitude and ownership of things :). Sadly I know it will likely take many years of hard work to pull it off, and even more years to grow it in a manner that will be beneficial to everyone involved.

Haya Sierra ---

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i generally perfer books based on the period of time were people generally lived as such.  Heck even harems were similiar.  You could always try reading up on some history to get "ideas" from. 



I have found that most of those who become involved with me are into such books and into such times in history. It is a type of set-up that is just not found a lot these days on a consensual basis -- and to me I feel those contain essential things for those who have a slave-nature that they cannot find anywhere else, such as an actual "slave culture" and "slave traditions" that are build from base concepts and vary between each Estate/Household.

This is why I made sure to not try to set up the Household without the Culture that this all belongs to, and why I made sure to start from scratch when developing our system of D/s. To assure that they go hand in hand at all times. For instance there are things that are common for those who are slaves and servants in a Household to do that not even Owners or the Free participate in, such as some artforms that are restricted to those who are owned only, and other traditions that are only for the Free and Owners. Then there are those that while they are shared, though each role is strictly defined -- such as Hanian "Sharing of Pleasure".   All in all, not everything is complete as of yet, but we've got a pretty good idea these days of where we are heading with most of it. The rest will be done by the actual individuals who will be living in my House over the first few years.

Haya Sierra ---
 

_____________________________

Haya Sierra
Haya Of Ka Azdor Estate --
http://groups.msn.com/Domsub/
Basic Information about the Hanian System of D/s

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