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Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 1:08:16 PM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fe … lture.html

Is this a big problem, or is this class warfare?

We may never know.
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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 1:16:21 PM   
susie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fe … lture.html

Is this a big problem, or is this class warfare?

We may never know.


Actually we do know. Yes it is a massive problem. People claiming disabilty benefit and being caught playing football or digging their gardens. Teenage girls that are pregnant being "kicked" out of their parents home so that they can be housed in flats paid for by benefits. People refusing to work as they would only earn the same as their benefit payment so why bother work!

Yes it is a huge problem.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 1:20:02 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		Ok-  It sounds like it is more of a problem in the UK, then in the US.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 1:21:46 PM   
susie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Ok-  It sounds like it is more of a problem in the UK, then in the US.


Well the link you posted was to a UK paper, so what does that have to do with the US benefit system?

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 1:29:53 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: susie

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Ok-  It sounds like it is more of a problem in the UK, then in the US.


Well the link you posted was to a UK paper, so what does that have to do with the US benefit system?



because we have tight budgets- here.   Alot of cut backs- and more desperate measures- so even tho we had welfare reform-   there could be more "reform".

If you notice trends in the g20 can rotate and effect others...

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 1:31:24 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		If I recall- you guys do not have a high opinion of the Sun Newspaper.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 1:47:19 PM   
stef


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Status: offline 		'The Sun' is Britain's version of 'The National Enquirer.'  The primary difference being 'The Sun' has Page 3 girls.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 1:54:38 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		The sun is like fox news, (well owned by the same chap) and about as reliable. It is a conservative rag with tits.
That is NOT to say that there isnt fraud, is it as bad as they claim, I dunno and wouldnt guess otherwise.
I know far more people trying to survive than defrauding, but experience isnt facts

Edited to agree with Stef....


< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 8/12/2010 1:59:15 PM >

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 2:00:16 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		The Sun ain't a reliable source (is any newspaper), but there is significant benefits fraud, and the government is making a big thing about cracking down on it (although the crack down has been happening for years already under the old govt). The way they're working it it won't cost taxpayer anything, and should catch a few more cheaters, so it's all good.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 2:10:13 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

The Sun ain't a reliable source (is any newspaper), but there is significant benefits fraud, and the government is making a big thing about cracking down on it (although the crack down has been happening for years already under the old govt). The way they're working it it won't cost taxpayer anything, and should catch a few more cheaters, so it's all good.



It should not be that hard to do.   Interesting reply.   Sounds reasonable to me.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 2:11:56 PM   
heavenNhell1990


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Status: offline 		hmmmm so its "FRAUD " not to accept a job that pays not alot more than your benefits ?
my situation lost job was on £64 a week benefits found a job eventualy after over 2000+ applications this job only pays £170 a week but now i have to find my full rent £74 a week also full council tax £70 a month you do the maths and work out how i am better off ????
remember i now have to travel to and from my job costing me either on public transport or wear and tear to my car etc

can fully understand why some dont take up the jobs offered

also do we hear the sun and the other right wing rags screaming quite so loud about the tax evasion of the rich and powerfulll in this country ? deafening silence as usual

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 2:21:25 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: heavenNhell1990

hmmmm so its "FRAUD " not to accept a job that pays not alot more than your benefits ?


In the US it depends on the state, but yes, not accepting a job that you are "suitable for" can constitute fraud. The threshhold for suitability based on being over-qualified goes down the longer you have been collecting.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 2:49:28 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
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Status: offline 		Total Benefits bill for the UK = £148bn
Total going AWOL (apparently) = £5.2bn - this is the amount Cameron pledges to save us.
Total of AWOL lost to fraud = £1bn
Total of AWOL lost to errors = £4.2bn - split 50/50 between claimant error and DWP error.

Total cost of bank bailout = £850bn

Is benefit fraud the real problem?

I don't think so.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/12/2010 2:51:30 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		TO me affordable housing would save enormous amounts of money going to the pockets of the slumlords

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/13/2010 2:49:30 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		what we need - and it would never be done - is to set up a national organisation which would do two primary things;

1) build affordable homes, exempt from "right to buy", and
2) manufacture consumer goods for domestic and export (which is meant to be our route out of this mess) consumption (plus associated support services, eg logistics)
3) build/repair roads and railways

by bringing out from retirement or from long term welfare those with the skills for both, and combining them with those others on long term welfare to the above ends, we may reverse the trend of falling engineering and trades skills and, because those working for this national organisation would be working for their benefits (plus travel, though the organisation would have local branches), the extra cost to the taxpayer would be negligible, the homes and products cheaper than otherwise.

funding would come from the bailed out banks who should acquire thereby some interest on the deal so they are not seen to be being robbed to fund the scheme, but nothing like the interest (or security) they should usually prefer.

the problems of long term unemployment and benefit reliance we dont hear so often about - depression et al, should be alleviated as the whole country goes to work every day.

the country would also gain a substantial for rent only housing stock - generating rental incomes or reducing housing benefit costs, and not have the dishonour of being the worst housed country in Europe (millions are actually or effectively homeless here and many millions more living in unsuitable, sub standard housing); something which is unacknowledged as a factor in making the place somewhere to escape from for those here.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/13/2010 5:28:55 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		The current drive to crack down on the so called benefit fraud that the people via media and government believe is going on is nothing more than an attack on a defenceless strata of society, perhaps a scapegoat for the real problem, powerful people the government does not want to piss off.

Fine route out fraud, for there is fraud going on with some benefit claimants, but that is not to mean attack everyone, for everyone on benefits will be investigated in the process and with that people will be described as fraudulent, when the reality is they are not, as one knows, the heavy boot of government agency is never delicate, they seem not to believe in precision, when general has always worked in the past.

I heard recently that the benefit fraud investigation department is being privatised, i.e. going out to civvy contractors who will be rewarded on piece work, the more they weed out, the more they get paid, which definitely means there is going to be abuse of procedures to make money.

But, would there be a strata of society that survives on benefits if the country hadn't been fucked up so bad by crap governments.

My view is the only way people will go back to work, is if their situation improves, i.e. they stand a chance of either being able to purchase a home or at least be able to rent decent housing and that paid for by a job that pays a reasonable rate for the work done, not the absolute minimum wage or not far off it as many ex claimants get forced to do. Also a job with prospects will help, as people need to know they have a possible future other than when the contract ends they are out. Also, I believe there should be an option to work if it is a person wants to change the direction of their career, if work is unappetising, dead end or no viable work available to match a person's skills, then for someone to claim benefits, they must be in viable education retraining to meet the new demands.

Of those whom I know out of work and claiming benefits, amongst them they include; precision engineers, tool makers and machinists, all trades which sustained Britain in the past, highly skilled and experienced people, but they all claim one problem, which is also common to myself, a lack of paperwork to prove skills, as in the past it was not a requirement to undertake academic educational courses with certification to prove one had the ability to do the job they were supposed to be skilled at.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/13/2010 1:27:07 PM   
Fellow


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Status: offline 		Funny. How do they explain double digit unemployment then: plenty of jobs but people are not taking them? Plutonomy societies would work much better if the poor and jobless would be paid minimum living wage (national dividend?). The rich would have to give up a little but the society as a whole would be much better off. I have been arguing that most of the unemployment is structural. The unemployment statistics supports this argument: only certain section of the society suffers high joblessness, the average length of the unemployment is historically at the highest level.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/13/2010 2:06:16 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		UK hasn't had double digit unemployment since....94ish.

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/13/2010 3:25:48 PM   
Fellow


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quote:

UK hasn't had double digit unemployment since....94ish.


The official 7.8% needs to be multiplied by a factor that takes into account government cheating. I am not sure about the UK methodology but the official sources in many western countries report substantially reduced numbers. The true unemployment in the US for example is around 20% ( http://www.shadowstats.com/ ).

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RE: Benefits fraud? Is it real? - 8/13/2010 3:41:24 PM   
DCWoody


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Status: offline 		Not worried about that in the UK, the opposition makes such claims (whichever party they are at the time), but if ya look into it the stats are fairly sensibly compiled.

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