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"john adams," and threats of radical leftitude - 8/13/2010 10:23:26 PM

sravaka

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
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Hello, crazy-ass politics and religion people....

Brief prefatory note: I like (in a certain sense of the word) reading what goes on here.... but am 1. far too chicken shit and 2. far too poorly prepared to actually participate as a a rule.

But I have a question for y'all.

I've just been watching on netflix the mini series about John Adams that aired a few years ago on HBO.

In the midst of the Alien and Sedition Act business, when Adams is president, he has an exchange with Jefferson (then his VP) about allying with France vs. allying with Britain.... and Jefferson (in this telling) came out with some stunning (and I can't help suspecting, anachronistic) statement about how the states would not sit by if constitutional rights to free speech were curtailed-- they might well revolt.

It made me wonder... 1) did thinking this idealistic ever really exist? 2) if it did, what the hell happened to it????

I am a mere girl, with no experience of firearms or any other conduit of violence.... but yanno? if i were to take up arms against anything, it would be against dimwits who sought to curtail freedom in the name of "freedom". In other words, I'd be on Jefferson's side.

(I say that, and yet it's not really true. the best I could possibly do is wound someone in the toe by stomping hard.)

When/how did the left become docile and the right become aggravated??

Wouldn't it make infinitely more sense for the right to be complacent and the left to be striving and agitating (given that the right is typically on the side of powerholders?)?

Or am I just misunderstanding or misapplying?

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

Post #: 1

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 10:34:37 PM

DarlingSavage

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The thing is that the left is mainly comprised of people with education, people who understand what's up. They are, in a sense, a bit more refined. The right has made an effort to appeal to the ignorant, uneducated masses through fear mongering. All these people are terrified of socialism and they don't even know what it is. But the left doesn't sit idle, I've been politically active ever since the last admin when there was such a strong call for activism. However, I will continue to be politically active. I want a better world for my grandkid. I want better opportunities for my daughter. I can't believe the shit I'm seeing in my research that took place during the last admin, all to do with deregulation. Especially for the oil and gas industry and the toll it is taking on the environment. It really threatens breathable air and potable water. I'm not even talking about global warming.

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Strangers have the BEST candy!

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RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 10:36:55 PM

tazzygirl

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The deregulation has been ongoing since Reagan. It will take at least that long to straighten it all out.

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RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 10:38:56 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

You`re make`n me jealous here,.....gorgeous.

You can steal my tunder any day......

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to DarlingSavage)

Post #: 4

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 10:46:59 PM

EbonyWood

Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

Hello, crazy-ass politics and religion people....

Say hello to those on the left too, please!

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 5

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 10:54:42 PM

sravaka

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarlingSavage

The thing is that the left is mainly comprised of people with education, people who understand what's up. They are, in a sense, a bit more refined. The right has made an effort to appeal to the ignorant, uneducated masses through fear mongering. All these people are terrified of socialism and they don't even know what it is. But the left doesn't sit idle, I've been politically active ever since the last admin when there was such a strong call for activism. However, I will continue to be politically active. I want a better world for my grandkid. I want better opportunities for my daughter. I can't believe the shit I'm seeing in my research that took place during the last admin, all to do with deregulation. Especially for the oil and gas industry and the toll it is taking on the environment. It really threatens breathable air and potable water. I'm not even talking about global warming.

Hi Darling Savage, (i love your moniker) :)

this is the thing, though?? (forgive me, I'm still groping toward a point)... once upon a time (not so long ago) it would have been republicans who had the status- and educational advantage. And i think in terms of who's atop of any particular corporate pyramid now? you still have righties.

Ok... I have more (sympathetic stuff-- i won't hide that) to say, but I'm going to defer it in hopes of not derailing my own thread yet.

(sorry)

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

(in reply to DarlingSavage)

Post #: 6

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 11:00:11 PM

sravaka

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

Hello, crazy-ass politics and religion people....

Say hello to those on the left too, please!

lol!

trust me when i say i've lurked here-- i know you're all nuts. otherwise you'd find other things to do, wouldn't you??? :)

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

(in reply to EbonyWood)

Post #: 7

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 11:02:54 PM

EbonyWood

Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

Hello, crazy-ass politics and religion people....

Say hello to those on the left too, please!

lol!

trust me when i say i've lurked here-- i know you're all nuts. otherwise you'd find other things to do, wouldn't you??? :)

Like, say...lurking?

Welcome aboard. We have snacks!

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 8

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 11:04:56 PM

sravaka

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

Welcome aboard. We have snacks!

lol... is that like drinking the koolaid??

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

(in reply to EbonyWood)

Post #: 9

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 11:05:45 PM

DarlingSavage

Posts: 2808
Joined: 9/18/2009
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I know what you're saying and I think you're right that the right does have more people sitting in mansions than the left, or should I say they have bigger mansions over there. However, look at Doris Duke. She was a tobacco heiress, but she took her fortune and created the Doris Duke Foundation and look at all the stuff they help with.

It is late and I don't know what I'm still doing here. lol

_____________________________

<-- Easily amused.
<-- Easily impressed.

Strangers have the BEST candy!

Puppy dogs are my favorite people!

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 10

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 11:06:56 PM

Owner59

Posts: 17033
Joined: 3/14/2006
From: Dirty Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

Hello, crazy-ass politics and religion people....

Say hello to those on the left too, please!

lol!

trust me when i say i've lurked here-- i know you're all nuts. otherwise you'd find other things to do, wouldn't you??? :)

This is my therapy when the world is nuts.

Without it I would be nuts.

On topic.

I don`t think the Founders wanted or ever planned that their government and Constitution would be overthrown.

I don`t believe they intended our "well regulated" militias to be used to attack our capital or federal officers or government employees.

< Message edited by Owner59 -- 8/13/2010 11:13:40 PM >

_____________________________

"As for our common defense, we reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals"

President Obama

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 11

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 11:15:18 PM

sravaka

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

This is my therapy when the world is nuts.

Without it I would be nuts.

I hear you, Owner.... :)

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 12

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 11:22:01 PM

sravaka

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

don`t think the Founders wanted or ever planned that their government and Constitution would be overthrown.

I don`t believe they intended our "well regulated" militias to be used to attack our capital or federal officers or government employees.

Of course not. What government would plant the seeds of its own demise in its own constitution??? that alone ought to be a clue to what the ff's meant.

We are a fucked up, stupidly-fractious (as opposed to productively fractious) kuni. (country). It pains me.

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

(in reply to Owner59)

Post #: 13

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 11:38:28 PM

heartcream

Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline

You dont sound poorly prepared at all OP. Welcome.

I doubt you are a mere girl. Females are pretty amazing stuff.

I just finished eating lots of nuts. Slow roasted peanuts in the shell (messy much?) with sea salt. Mmmm.

I remember a time in Manhattan when I almost had a job at, One If By Land, Two if By Sea, a restaurant in the Village, I think. It is in John Adam's old Coach House. Awesome place. I was meant to be the person that went around chatting people up which would have been so fun. The day before I was to start the manager who hired me apparently got fired for doing drugs and therefore they didnt want me because the manager brought me in. A friend of mine knew the manager and recommended me, I didnt know the guy at all.

I think Jefferson had his moments but because of his Sally Hemmings, and the way he treated his own children--his own children, nah, I wouldnt support him either.

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(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 14

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/13/2010 11:56:52 PM

Brain

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Joined: 2/14/2007
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The right is aggravated because they believe the lies of the right wing “elite.” A right wing elite person is someone like Dick Armey who created the Tea Party to brainwash stupid conservative Republicans like Sarah Palin into believing Obama is a communist.

I must say it is hard for me at times to believe people like Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachman are so stupid that they actually believe this shit. Sometimes I think they are really intelligent and know they are manipulating people in a despicable way but then Palin will say something stupid like, “I can see Russia from my house” as if that means she is qualified to be involved with foreign policy to bring me back to reality.

As far as the left getting aggravated goes, you have to remember most don’t like to play with guns and are anti-violence wanting to end the wars. So it’s not in our nature to start screaming like Sharon Angle about second amendment remedies. We know there are better ways to fight so we’re not really docile but more like stubborn and determined and in it for the long haul. And you also have to remember it’s the Democrats that control the presidency, house and senate. It’s easier for the party out of power to be agitated.

I don’t know what you’re doing but I hope this makes it clearer.

Bill

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 15

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/14/2010 12:10:09 AM

sravaka

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline

Thanks, Brain....

As for what I'm doing, I hoped to speak in the context of the last 200 hundred years instead of the last 2.

I'm not sure that your approach really helps any more than mine? (though i do not think i am particularly stuck to one).... I certainly admire your.... adhesiveness?? BUT...
(lol... sorry.. i'm word deprived at the moment.)

I'd like to say things about Palins and Bachmanns.... but that is not my point here and now. so i will wait.

Ultimately?? all of us are too simpleminded to live with our neighbors.....

< Message edited by sravaka -- 8/14/2010 12:11:14 AM >

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

(in reply to Brain)

Post #: 16

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/14/2010 12:21:02 AM

MrRodgers

Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka

Hello, crazy-ass politics and religion people....

Brief prefatory note: I like (in a certain sense of the word) reading what goes on here.... but am 1. far too chicken shit and 2. far too poorly prepared to actually participate as a a rule.

But I have a question for y'all.

I've just been watching on netflix the mini series about John Adams that aired a few years ago on HBO.

In the midst of the Alien and Sedition Act business, when Adams is president, he has an exchange with Jefferson (then his VP) about allying with France vs. allying with Britain.... and Jefferson (in this telling) came out with some stunning (and I can't help suspecting, anachronistic) statement about how the states would not sit by if constitutional rights to free speech were curtailed-- they might well revolt.

It made me wonder... 1) did thinking this idealistic ever really exist? 2) if it did, what the hell happened to it????

I am a mere girl, with no experience of firearms or any other conduit of violence.... but yanno? if i were to take up arms against anything, it would be against dimwits who sought to curtail freedom in the name of "freedom". In other words, I'd be on Jefferson's side.

(I say that, and yet it's not really true. the best I could possibly do is wound someone in the toe by stomping hard.)

When/how did the left become docile and the right become aggravated??

Wouldn't it make infinitely more sense for the right to be complacent and the left to be striving and agitating (given that the right is typically on the side of powerholders?)?

Or am I just misunderstanding or misapplying?

In response to and in answer to your questions...I'll try. First I must admit, I don't know what allying ourselves with Britain or France has to do with the freedom of speech.

As for the state militias rising up against the feds...you are correct and in fact the feds and the states were prohibited from using either army for local law enforcement via the Posse Comitatus Act. In the constitution there was to be NO peace-time standing army at all without a renewal from congress every two years. Seems I think, they must have been doing that every two years since the Civil war or...why not stay at war say come 1898 ?

That act has been modified to allow just that now.

Such idealistic principles did exist as these men did really comit everything to the cause. It no, does not exist today as it was all eaten and swallowed up in the cauldron of greed and power.

Not only did Jefferson feel as if a revolution every twenty or so years was a good thing. Easy for him to say having come out whole in his. But, he and Adams were for the federal govt. enforcing the constitution...only. The states were to retain almost all other rights. Adams the federlist was for federal power mainly for the protection of the union...not engrossing its power upon the people.

Yes the A & S act was the darkest moment of Adam's entire life.

The right in America has fully aligned itself with capitalist profiteers and seek the power of money now constitutionally protected as something called political speech.

It has morphed from the progressive radicals that once upon a time supported every person born here...was a citizen and the idea of anti-trust and its concomitant preservation of competition. No more.

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 17

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/14/2010 12:47:38 AM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
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The current state of political affairs is pretty bamboozeled up at the moment.

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RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/14/2010 1:03:58 AM

sravaka

Posts: 314
Joined: 6/20/2008
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gee, thanks, whiplash.

_____________________________

Miseries hold me fixed, and I would gladly cut these roots to become a floating plant. I would yield myself up utterly, if the inviting stream could be relied upon. --Ono no Komachi

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)

Post #: 19

RE: "john adams," and threats of radical left... - 8/14/2010 1:12:09 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sravaka
I've just been watching on netflix the mini series about John Adams that aired a few years ago on HBO.

In the midst of the Alien and Sedition Act business, when Adams is president, he has an exchange with Jefferson (then his VP) about allying with France vs. allying with Britain.... and Jefferson (in this telling) came out with some stunning (and I can't help suspecting, anachronistic) statement about how the states would not sit by if constitutional rights to free speech were curtailed-- they might well revolt.

I have no idea if Jefferson actually said anything of the sort but he would have had good reason to think the people might revolt if they thought the federal government was behaving tyrannically.

In 1794 opposition to a whiskey excise tax became an armed rebellion in western PA. Washington had to threaten to send in armed troops before the rebellion calmed down. As a matter of fact farmers in SE PA revolted over the house tax in 1799 and 1800not long after the passage of the Alien and Sedition Acts, Fries Rebellion, as it is called, is often blamed on the fight between the two political parties (federalist and democrat-republicans).

(in reply to sravaka)

Post #: 20

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