The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (Full Version)

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Brain -> The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/14/2010 8:52:02 PM)

It would be nice to see some real fiscal conservatism for a change.

FTA:

"Allowing the Bush-era tax cuts to expire will remove a massive boon for America's rich, which benefited the most from Republican policies over the last decade. Reinstatement of the Estate Tax, the Alternative Minimum Tax and the return of pre-Bush income tax levels for the richest Americans (among other tax changes) will result in an increase of more than $217 billion in tax revenues for 2010 and 2011. The expirations will then contribute another $1.25 trillion from 2012 through 2015, and an additional $2.2 trillion from 2016 to 2020."




The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis


The Democrats appear to be sitting on a golden ticket when it comes to ending the economic crisis. Furthermore, the solution to this country's economic woes wouldn't require them to do a thing, short of allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire (as required by law) and appropriating the money for renewed stimulus and in aiding states to cover their budget deficits. Whether the party has the courage to resist Republican and conservative dogmas framing tax cuts as the solution to the crisis remains to be seen.


There is one way to get business and financial elites to reinvest in the economy - take the money from them. This policy option is, after all, the law, considering that the Bush administration explicitly set up their tax cuts to expire by the end of the 2000s. The Bush tax cuts will only be allowed to continue if the Democratic Party (or a split government following the midterm elections) agrees to extend them. We have a real chance over the next year to take a stand against corporate corruption and greed. Americans can demand that the Bush era tax cuts for the rich come to an end, or they can sit by and watch while Republicans (and conservative Democrats) push for their extension. The latter path will spell disaster for America's working class, while the rich will be left laughing all the way to the bank.

http://www.truth-out.org/the-coming-tax-war-how-letting-bush-tax-cuts-expire-could-end-economic-crisis62154





THELADY -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 12:42:24 AM)

from the web side cashmoneylife:
Expect Higher Tax Rates for Everyone Many people believe that only the top tier of tax brackets will face higher income tax rates when the tax cuts expire, but that is not the case. If Congress does not take action, the marginal tax rates will go up across the board. Right now there are six tax brackets coming in at 10%, 15%, 25%, 28%, 33%, and 35%. If the tax cuts are not extended, these six brackets will be replaced by the pre-2001 tax levels, which featured the following five tax brackets: 15%, 28%, 31%, 36% and 39.6%.


from the examner.com:

The study
examines an average family in the middle 20 percent of the income spectrum and compares their 2011 tax burden to what it would be if the tax cuts are extended.  The study notes that, nationally, the typical middle-income family with a median income of $63,366, would see its federal income taxes go up by $1,540 if the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire.  This number is well below the magic "up to $200,000" spoken by Obama and his surrogates in the 2008 campaign as an income level that would be exempt from tax increases during his administration.

from the tax foundation :
The major provisions of EGTRRA that affect average American families, all set to sunset after December 31, 2010, include:
  • The creation of a new 10 percent individual income tax bracket, added to the existing bracket structure;
  • A phased-in increase in the Child Tax Credit from its previous level of $500 per child to $1,000 per child in 2010; and
  • Marriage penalty relief phased in primarily between 2004 and 2010.
Due to EGTRRA’s doubling of the child tax credit, families with more than two children will experience an even greater increase in their taxes between 2010 and 2011 when the credit reverts from $1,000 per child to $5oo. 
a phased-in reduction of the remaining individMeasured as a percentage increase in federal income taxes due, a typical family of four in Arkansas will be hit the hardest as their total federal income tax bill will increase by 102 percent between 2010 and 2011. The increase in five other states —Louisiana, Mississippi, Montana, New Mexico, and West Virginia—will exceed 80 percent. ual income tax rates over the next five years;


seems to Me letting the tax cuts will not  help the average American and if we are gonna loose money, those that have money and usually hire people wont be hiring.  hummmm this means in effect, less money going into the govt, it sands to reason,
"less jobs less taxes paid'" but hey, the evil rich will be paying more rather than hiring people and so long as the evil rich pay more who are we to argue????!!!!




cuckyman -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 12:57:31 AM)

Liberals will never be satisfied until they take ALL the money from the private sector.... as most communist governments do...... Government is always the answer to everything according to the left... only the American people are fed up with big bloated overspending and overtaxation. They will never admit that lowering the marginal tax rates always results in more economic activity that brings more revenue to the government, and more private sector profits ( there is that evil word that libs so despise).... but November is going to be a big wake up call for Dems....and the beginning of the end of Obama and the left's last hold on power for many years to come..... Either that or civil war....take your pick....




TheRaptorJesus -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 1:03:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: THELADY


seems to Me letting the tax cuts will not  help the average American and if we are gonna loose money, those that have money and usually hire people wont be hiring.  hummmm this means in effect, less money going into the govt, it sands to reason,
"less jobs less taxes paid'" but hey, the evil rich will be paying more rather than hiring people and so long as the evil rich pay more who are we to argue????!!!!


Because the "Trickle-down" theory has been shown to not work.

Something also tells me that you most likely aren't in the bracket that would suffer if the breaks are repealed so why be butt-hurt if the ridiculous tax breaks expire?




Malkinius -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 1:07:59 AM)

{fast reply}

Greetings all....

I have a serious question on this subject. Does any one know of any current studies on just how much money is out there that can be taxed from the "rich"? I know it has been done in years past. I don't know of any current ones. There was one at least 10 years ago that compared the total wealth of the top 5-10% of the people in this country and how much of the federal budget that would cover if it was all taken. Is there a current one that is the same or similar and if so, what does it say?

Be well....

Malkinius




servantforuse -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 6:08:47 AM)

The dems should let the Bush tax cuts end. They can then deal with the consecuences later..




THELADY -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 10:56:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

Because the "Trickle-down" theory has been shown to not work.

Something also tells me that you most likely aren't in the bracket that would suffer if the breaks are repealed so why be butt-hurt if the ridiculous tax breaks expire?


really? Then please  tell me, when was the last time anyone you know of got a job from a poor person?  its it going to, as Obama said,  trickle up? 

what gets Me about it is My boss will be affected by the cuts expiring, and that could mean MY job at jeopardy!!




DarkSteven -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 11:00:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: THELADY

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheRaptorJesus

Because the "Trickle-down" theory has been shown to not work.

Something also tells me that you most likely aren't in the bracket that would suffer if the breaks are repealed so why be butt-hurt if the ridiculous tax breaks expire?


really? Then please  tell me, when was the last time anyone you know of got a job from a poor person?  its it going to, as Obama said,  trickle up? 

what gets Me about it is My boss will be affected by the cuts expiring, and that could mean MY job at jeopardy!!



Bush cut taxes at the tail end of a boom.  The economy promptly went south and has stayed there, even with a RE bubble to prop it up.

It's amazing that anyone can even pretend to keep a straight face when discussing trickle-down since.

Of course trickle-up should work.  Give the money to someone who is strapped, and he or she will spend it all, and make a multiplier effect.  The wealthy could afford to save it, and inhibited the multiplier.




Musicmystery -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 11:09:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius

{fast reply}

Greetings all....

I have a serious question on this subject. Does any one know of any current studies on just how much money is out there that can be taxed from the "rich"? I know it has been done in years past. I don't know of any current ones. There was one at least 10 years ago that compared the total wealth of the top 5-10% of the people in this country and how much of the federal budget that would cover if it was all taken. Is there a current one that is the same or similar and if so, what does it say?

Be well....

Malkinius


As the income gap has widened over that period, with income ballooning at the top, you can expect those numbers to be exacerbated.

In 2007, the top 1% held 35% of net worth, and the top 20% held 85% of net worth.

The top 1% held 43% of financial worth, and the top 20% held 93% of financial worth.

--Power in America: Wealth, Income, and Power
by G. William Domhoff, Sociology Dept., Univ. of California at Santa Cruz.
September 2005 (updated July 2010)




pahunkboy -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 11:23:45 AM)

Lady is right- average people will pay more.

which they already will have to pay more at the state and local level.




Musicmystery -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 11:35:55 AM)

quote:

average people will pay more.

which they already will have to pay more at the state and local level.


BECAUSE funding at the federal level was cut, creating a patch work of less efficient solutions.

It happens every time federal taxes are cut.




Fellow -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 11:50:00 AM)

The rich have the money. The question is: if the government takes it what happens to it?  People who argue against tax increases do it usually because they do not trust the government. Mr. Brain believes it will be spent wisely. The history may not support it well. The economists can not say much about it because nobody knows where these resources will end up. They may just disappear into Afganistan quicksand or somewhere else. A small fraction of military spending cut would produce the same result.
Infrastructure spending could give a positive balance as one economist calculates:

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=5490

However, Summers and Geithner perhaps will decide  to do something else and at the end nobody will know for sure what happened to the extra funds.




Musicmystery -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 12:03:32 PM)

I'm all for cuts in military spending.

Not to mention eliminating the Dept. of Homeland Theater.

Paranoia is expensive. We cannot well afford it.




Malkinius -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 3:56:25 PM)

Greetings.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
As the income gap has widened over that period, with income ballooning at the top, you can expect those numbers to be exacerbated.

In 2007, the top 1% held 35% of net worth, and the top 20% held 85% of net worth.

The top 1% held 43% of financial worth, and the top 20% held 93% of financial worth.

--Power in America: Wealth, Income, and Power
by G. William Domhoff, Sociology Dept., Univ. of California at Santa Cruz.
September 2005 (updated July 2010)


Those are useful percentages. What kind of dollar amount are they talking about? It is the dollar amount that is really under discussion here. How much can be taken from people, not what their percentage of the total wealth is. Now, if you match those percentages with the percentage of taxes paid, I wonder how much of a correlation there would be, if any. The correlation is by the entire group, not specific individuals who can be a statistical exception to the average.

Be well....

Malkinius




Musicmystery -> RE: The Coming Tax War: How Letting the Bush Tax Cuts Expire Could End the Economic Crisis (8/15/2010 5:25:57 PM)

In 2007, all households in the United States earned roughly $7.896 trillion.

A wealth of data breaks it down in thousands of different ways.

A quick Google will point you to several of these reports.




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