Pakistan floods anyone? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Pakistan floods anyone?


I'd not heard of any of this
  22% (2)
I had heard but dont have anything to give
  22% (2)
I had heard but charity begins at home
  22% (2)
I had heard but it feels wrong to give to Pakistan
  0% (0)
I dont want to hear if it supports global warming
  22% (2)
Other (please detail)
  11% (1)


Total Votes : 9
(last vote on : 8/17/2010 11:02:11 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message

LadyEllen -> Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 4:11:38 AM)

It was raised last night on the BBC news channel during the period it goes out on PBS in the US - that the incredible  flooding in Pakistan is receiving little if any coverage, Americans are mainly unware of it and (presumably as a result) little in the way of donations are being made. Indeed aside from the invaluable assistance by way of US military helicopter flights running in food and water from Afghanistan, the US seems absent on this one.

I wondered if this lack of awareness is accurate? And if it isnt then how to account for the apparent uninterest in helping?

The floods, the result of an unprecedented monsoon season that agriculture relies on, appear to be linked to the same unusual deviations in the jet stream over Asia that has brought similar rains to China and caused enormous landslides that have killed many there and that has also brought drought to Russia and widespread fires that have devasated vast areas. Its too early to say for sure, but many are seeing a link to global warming that is changing the way our weather works.

Meanwhile Pakistan of course is a long time and uneasy ally of the west in the fight against "terror". A fight in which it is oft repeated that Pakistan has no heart and in which it may be playing both sides. Does this I wonder explain a reluctance to help, the thought that giving money here will see aid to the enemy in some way?

It should be noted too that if this is about hearts and minds, that Islamic charities linked to banned terrorist organisation are busy throughout the affected region in giving out aid, providing food, water, shelter and medical assistance to millions. The question is whether, when called upon, such charity must inevitably lead to prejudiced loyalties in favour of those opposed to us?

And importantly of course we in the west in general are in trouble, (except maybe the Germans), with many of us worried about paying bills and having a job next month to do the same; does this explain the apparent situation?

E



Kirata -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 4:58:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

It was raised last night on the BBC news channel during the period it goes out on PBS in the US - that the incredible flooding in Pakistan is receiving little if any coverage, Americans are mainly unware of it and (presumably as a result) little in the way of donations are being made. Indeed aside from the invaluable assistance by way of US military helicopter flights running in food and water from Afghanistan, the US seems absent on this one.

I wondered if this lack of awareness is accurate? And if it isnt then how to account for the apparent uninterest in helping?

It's not accurate. It's been all over the news, American aid has been, errm, flooding in, and, at a time when millions of Americans are out of work and losing their homes, out of whose pockets, precisely, does the BBC think the cost of that aid is coming without a whimper?

U.S. Aid Reaches Flood-Ravaged Pakistan
U.S. Continues Aid to Pakistan Flood Victims
USAID Sends Additional Aid to Pakistan Flood Victims
More U.S. Helicopters Join Pakistan Flood-Relief Effort

Fuck the BBC.

K.



LadyEllen -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 5:08:48 AM)

Hey - it was the lady your side who said it to the BBC lady, 'k? I'm asking if its accurate and if it is then why that might be.

E



servantforuse -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 5:19:13 AM)

Maybe the UK should step up it's efforts ? The US is always expected to fund every disaster relief effort no matter where it happens.



Kirata -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 5:21:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Hey - it was the lady your side who said it to the BBC lady, 'k?

Hey - I said fuck the BBC, not you. And as for the lady with the mouth, fuck her too. [:D]

K.



LadyEllen -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 5:23:22 AM)

The UK has already donated around (I think) $50million, comprising large charity and matched government donations but excluding small charity donations (lots of small Islamic charities here). The EU was under fire yesterday from the UN Sec Gen for being way behind the €110million for Haiti in terms of its help to Pakistan.

E



servantforuse -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 5:27:09 AM)

I think it's time for the governments of some of these countries to take care of their own problems. Many of them hate the 'west', until they need our money. I'm tired of it.



EbonyWood -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 5:28:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The US is always expected to fund every disaster no matter where it happens.


I think you mean disaster relief.
 
Unless you're talking about a few recent wars, financial collapses, environmental disasters, then yep, those are down to the US.



PeanutTigerinBox -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 5:41:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

It was raised last night on the BBC news channel during the period it goes out on PBS in the US - that the incredible flooding in Pakistan is receiving little if any coverage, Americans are mainly unware of it and (presumably as a result) little in the way of donations are being made. Indeed aside from the invaluable assistance by way of US military helicopter flights running in food and water from Afghanistan, the US seems absent on this one.

I wondered if this lack of awareness is accurate? And if it isnt then how to account for the apparent uninterest in helping?

It's not accurate. It's been all over the news, American aid has been, errm, flooding in, and, at a time when millions of Americans are out of work and losing their homes, out of whose pockets, precisely, does the BBC think the cost of that aid is coming without a whimper?

U.S. Aid Reaches Flood-Ravaged Pakistan
U.S. Continues Aid to Pakistan Flood Victims
USAID Sends Additional Aid to Pakistan Flood Victims
More U.S. Helicopters Join Pakistan Flood-Relief Effort

Fuck the BBC.

K.


That just reminds me on a show recently, I think it was in the "Question time" and there also one of the political representatives said that america would not really receive the news outside of their country, claiming that they would not be interested about what happens in other countries, following which one woman stood up in the audience, introducing herself as american and saying that this is inaccurate they have news from other countries on their TV.

That gave a good laugh to the audience as the person who said it obviously did not expect that someone from america would be in the audience.

But I do agree, I guess in those days it isn't that easy to help with many people out of work.

I stopped small regular funds which I used to give to charities on a monthly basis as well, as right now my own finances don't really allow to be generous like that, even when it were only small regular sums.



THELADY -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 6:11:23 AM)

Does it supports global warming??? don't be a twit!  In the late 70's I  was living in Mississippi.  Once it rained for a solid week and the creeks a mile away flooded all the way to my house.  the experts said it was  the hundred year flood.  Today it would be the fault of global warming.  The global warming band was predicting global freezes in the 70's. The weather people can not  predict what will be happening this afternoon with even 90% accuracy, what would make anyone believe they can predict what will happen years from now?

As to the coverage, they have said more than enough about it. Apparently  people think  the rich greedy Americans  should go in and save the world, but being  horrible people,  we should keep out of  other peoples business.  Hummmmmm, Damn if we do Damn if we dont.





pahunkboy -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 7:34:28 AM)

Lets suppose for a moment- that it does have to do with global warming.

How is it paying Goldman Sachs a global carbon tax going to fix it?

People will still eat and shit and have sex.     But- now we have to pay even more to the bankers.



AsmodaisSin -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 8:22:05 AM)

In my defense, I haven't touched a TV or anything in a while, simply because of familial issues.  I do have some problems with the whole, "We hate the west" mindset, but every time caca hits the rotary oscillator, they turn to us to help...even if we're hitting rock bottom economic wise.  I feel for these people, but I highly doubt they'll turn around and say thank you.  I feel that they expect it, because America, as fucked up as it can be, is full of good people.  -Shrugs.-



vincentML -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/16/2010 8:37:58 AM)

quote:

It should be noted too that if this is about hearts and minds,


I think this is a terribly non-productive strategy for the West. Perhaps it is the moral thing to do giving aid for humanitarian purposes. But as a war strategy it is tantamount to buying "protection" from mobsters.

Of course, I think Obama is making a terrible mistake expanding the war. I'd like to see us outta there tomorrow and let India worry about Pakistan's nukes.

Have you in the UK heard the news about Russian wild fires? Have you sent aid? Just being a wise ass here. Like we don't get the news! [8|]



LadyEllen -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/17/2010 3:45:15 AM)

This wasnt meant to be a pissing contest - it was a simple question as to whether the coverage was, as had been mentioned, seriously lacking or totally absent and if so, what might explain that and the also mentioned apparent lack of aid coming from the US, purported to be falling short because of the apparent level of publicity. 25% of an admittedly small number of participants in the above poll said they had not heard of the floods in Pakistan.

The degree of hostility in some replies suggests to me a certain level of that which I suspected; that despite none having ticked the option "it feels wrong to give to Pakistan" there is such a feeling present in this instance and likely arising from the common knowledge, reported many times, that Pakistan as a state appears to not be doing all it can to assist and support the west against the variety of radical Islam that is promoted amongst its people, originally it must be said against India and more recently against us by way of its feed into Afghanistan.

I see nothing wrong with such discernment; if one is convinced that one's enemy is in trouble then one is under no obligation to assist him but every obligation to take advantage of his misfortune to support efforts towards his defeat. The only question in this instance is whether his defeat will be more likely if he is left to flounder or his disastrous circumstances might strengthen his resolve to renew the fight or our aid to him now might turn him into a friend or support his recovery and enable his next attack.

E



vincentML -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/17/2010 4:15:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

This wasnt meant to be a pissing contest - it was a simple question as to whether the coverage was, as had been mentioned, seriously lacking or totally absent and if so, what might explain that and the also mentioned apparent lack of aid coming from the US, purported to be falling short because of the apparent level of publicity. 25% of an admittedly small number of participants in the above poll said they had not heard of the floods in Pakistan.

The degree of hostility in some replies suggests to me a certain level of that which I suspected; that despite none having ticked the option "it feels wrong to give to Pakistan" there is such a feeling present in this instance and likely arising from the common knowledge, reported many times, that Pakistan as a state appears to not be doing all it can to assist and support the west against the variety of radical Islam that is promoted amongst its people, originally it must be said against India and more recently against us by way of its feed into Afghanistan.

I see nothing wrong with such discernment; if one is convinced that one's enemy is in trouble then one is under no obligation to assist him but every obligation to take advantage of his misfortune to support efforts towards his defeat. The only question in this instance is whether his defeat will be more likely if he is left to flounder or his disastrous circumstances might strengthen his resolve to renew the fight or our aid to him now might turn him into a friend or support his recovery and enable his next attack.

E


Apologies if I contributed to the pissing contest. Honestly, I did not even bother to click the poll responses. Didn't much look at them.

You are correct. There is not much stomach here for support of pakistan or afgarbagecan. Your country has a long history with them; ours does not. I am not a fan of the new imperialism. Let Pakistan be India's problem. Let us be done with south Asia. Bring home the troops. Stop the useless nation building. Cease pouring cash down a rat hole. Pakistan wants only jet fighter aircraft from us. They are not allies.

I much prefer the Obama tactic of stealth war and assassination.



Aneirin -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/17/2010 4:24:13 AM)

I believe Pakistan is very much Britain's problem because of it's past involvement in the region, but of that involvement those that reaped the rewards of the raj should be putting back in as why should the tax payer pay for the region yet again for other to make their fortunes.



vincentML -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/17/2010 5:01:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

I believe Pakistan is very much Britain's problem because of it's past involvement in the region, but of that involvement those that reaped the rewards of the raj should be putting back in as why should the tax payer pay for the region yet again for other to make their fortunes.


Bingo!



LadyEllen -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/17/2010 5:06:31 AM)

I'd have thought we had long since paid back, with interest, anything we got from Pakistan, 60+ years of "overseas development aid" on, not to mention feeding, clothing and housing hundreds of thousands of emigres now here, and into their 4th generations in many cases yet as still utterly attached to Pakistani identity as they are disinterested in a British one, and hence often unemployed or unemployable outside of their own communities, as a result of a failed multi-cultural experiment which in this particular instance has already bitten us and may yet bite us again in future.

E



vincentML -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/17/2010 5:16:24 AM)

You do have a difficult climate on the home front as I understand it. Was it not an issue in your recent election?



LadyEllen -> RE: Pakistan floods anyone? (8/17/2010 5:52:04 AM)

Some tried to make an argument about immigration Vincent, which looking at their previous arguments were but thinly veiled attacks on non-Europeans, but the facts are that the real problems we have are about housing, jobs, prospects and public services coming under strain from shortage of facilities, opportunities or funding - and that we can do nothing about EU citizens coming here to take work (and housing et al) that the natives cant or wont do as it doesnt pay the same as government welfare.

E



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