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Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 3:56:44 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		Don't mistake my intentions here, I think Phelps and his family cult that he calls a church are lunatics, but should there ever be restrictions on free speech?

And please, can we avoid the shouting fire in a crowded theater argument because it is not applicable here.


Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional


JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. – A federal judge Monday ruled that Missouri laws restricting protests near funerals are unconstitutional.

Missouri legislators passed two laws in 2006 in response to protests at servicemembers' funerals by members of Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kan. The church contends the deaths are God's punishment for the U.S. tolerating homosexuality.

U.S. District Judge Fernando Gaitan ruled the laws violate the right of free speech guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution.


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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 4:30:19 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		I really, really, really hate to say it, but I agree with the court. It is indeed a Free speech, Freedom of Assembly issue and if we start with the baffoons < wink, wink > of the Westboro " Church ". What's next. I see this similar to KKK rallies/marches and those idiots outside abortion clinics . While they all sicken me to death, according to our constitution they have the right to do what they are doing.

Someday those inbred Westoboro kooks will protest the wrong family. And I will loudly applaud whatever actions are bestowed upon them. Alot of Hell's Angels, Outlaws, Pagans etc are veterans. I'm sure some of our fallen soldiers have friends or family who belong to those clubs. I think it would be a great idea for a family to hire them to be security, like the Stones did at Altamont. Nothing like 100 bikes with there engines revving, circling the inbreds and some big ol boys to shoo those bastards away. In a non violent way, of course.

                mbmbn

                                 mbmbn

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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 4:42:13 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Yeah, I have to say, if they assemble peacefully, they have the right.

You can't have free speech if it is only speech YOU like.

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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 6:11:37 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		There are already restrictions on free speech. You cannot incite a riot. You cannot be drunk and disorderly. You cannot yell fire in a theatre. This group crosses the line..

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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 6:29:46 PM   
DarkSteven


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Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

There are already restrictions on free speech. You cannot incite a riot. You cannot be drunk and disorderly. You cannot yell fire in a theatre. This group crosses the line..


Agreed.  If the WBC is not a public nuisance, who is?  Those SOBs protested a bat mitzvah in Colorado a couple of months back.


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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 6:58:26 PM   
Brain


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Protesting at someone's funeral is harassment, they have the right to protest but they don't have the right to harass people. A family has the right to grieve a member's death without having a bunch of crazies hanging around yelling at them. They are not peaceful! They are loud and rude.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Yeah, I have to say, if they assemble peacefully, they have the right.

You can't have free speech if it is only speech YOU like.


(in reply to Jeffff)
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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 8:10:09 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		Protesting in general is often times harassment. It's the nature of the beast. Take PETA, for example. They stand in the streets and yell, swear and harass people wearing fur. Take a Union picket Line, many times they yell, swear and harass people trying to shop at their store or " scabs " goign in to do the work. Any protest other than a MLK type protest is harassing someone.  So if WBC is harassing mourners, why is that any different from the fur wearers or scabs ? I understand the nature of mourners is different, but the constitution wasn't written to give exception to it  based on emotion or individual circumstance.
And believe me Brian, I agree with you in theory. But legally, there is no difference.

Actually  mourners do not have the right to be free from crazies yelling at us. None of us do. A quick ride on the NY subway system ot T system in Boston proves that.  I am speaking strictly legal.

Did you ever see any of the protests against Bush? Were they not loud and rude ? And did it not bring a smile to your face ?
I'm teasing a bit, but take any protest against a politician, war, etc. They get pretty loud and rude, on both sides of the arguement.

While I agree with you from a humanity standpoint, I have to support the Courts on this one from a postion of protection of  my Constitutional rights.

            mbmbn


< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 8/16/2010 8:21:52 PM >

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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 8:23:00 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Exactly..... and who knows one day someone from the WBC might die................

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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 8:28:55 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		That group planned on showing up at the funeral of a Viet Nam vet here in the midwest. I think it was in Milwaukee or Cleveland.A group of Harley riders recomended strongly that they change their mind. Phelps and his group didn't show. This is the only way to stop them. I am trying to find the article.

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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 8:31:53 PM   
BoiJen


Posts: 2608
Joined: 3/7/2007
Status: offline 		The Patriot Guard riders do a great job of creating a peaceful blockade against these fuckers. If there's a chapter in your area, and these guys announce they're gonna be there, consider giving them a call.

boi


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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 8:34:38 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		LOL, servant ! I posted ^^^^^ upthere, somewhere that a little security by one of the biker clubs would fix these idiots. My advice to the next family is: don't give Phelps a heads up.
Wouldn't you just love to see Phelps and family out there with there signs, tongues a wagging and 100 biker show up and circle them ? In a non threatening way, of course.

          mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 8:39:56 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		I would actually like to see the Phelps family dragged out of the area behind a couple of those bikes. ( in a non violent way of course ) I know guys that would have no trouble with doing just that.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 8:49:37 PM   
EbonyWood


Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

I really, really, really hate to say it, but I agree with the court. It is indeed a Free speech, Freedom of Assembly issue and if we start with the baffoons < wink, wink > of the Westboro " Church ". What's next. I see this similar to KKK rallies/marches and those idiots outside abortion clinics . While they all sicken me to death, according to our constitution they have the right to do what they are doing.

Someday those inbred Westoboro kooks will protest the wrong family. And I will loudly applaud whatever actions are bestowed upon them. Alot of Hell's Angels, Outlaws, Pagans etc are veterans. I'm sure some of our fallen soldiers have friends or family who belong to those clubs. I think it would be a great idea for a family to hire them to be security, like the Stones did at Altamont. 
                                mbmbn


Probably not the best analogy. Someone died at Altamont. 
 
I don't think resorting to homicide is the answer. If you have to mete violence out, or threaten to, to protect your right of assembly against others protesting it, then you've pretty much given them the win. The child of fanatacism is martyrdom.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 8:52:23 PM   
pogo4pres


Posts: 593
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

Protesting in general is often times harassment. It's the nature of the beast. Take PETA, for example. They stand in the streets and yell, swear and harass people wearing fur. Take a Union picket Line, many times they yell, swear and harass people trying to shop at their store or " scabs " goign in to do the work. Any protest other than a MLK type protest is harassing someone.  So if WBC is harassing mourners, why is that any different from the fur wearers or scabs ? I understand the nature of mourners is different, but the constitution wasn't written to give exception to it  based on emotion or individual circumstance.
And believe me Brian, I agree with you in theory. But legally, there is no difference.

Actually  mourners do not have the right to be free from crazies yelling at us. None of us do. A quick ride on the NY subway system ot T system in Boston proves that.  I am speaking strictly legal.

Did you ever see any of the protests against Bush? Were they not loud and rude ? And did it not bring a smile to your face ?
I'm teasing a bit, but take any protest against a politician, war, etc. They get pretty loud and rude, on both sides of the arguement.

While I agree with you from a humanity standpoint, I have to support the Courts on this one from a postion of protection of  my Constitutional rights.

           mbmbn



Well last time I checked a funeral is a PRIVATE CEREMONY, held in a cemetery, which last time I checked was PRIVATE PROPERTY. Therefore this judge has his fucking head so far up his ass he needs a god damned Caterpillar D-9 grader to pull it out.  The Westboro Baptist assholes ARE allowed on the public sidewalks though, and you can easily overcome their antics by holding the burial ceremony far enough away from the public side walks to make the buffoons moot.  Then on a later day if the burial plot is near the public walks, move the coffin/"grave liner" to that location. 

Jen is correct the "Patriot Guard Riders" do an excellent job at keeping the assholes quiet, and usually with out physical violence (which I know I would not refrain from) 


Respectfully,
Some Knucklehead in NJ




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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 8:54:40 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Shouldn’t there be a difference between an individuals right to protest and a groups rights. For instance could there not be a local law requiring group protests to obtain a local license so proper police protection, crowd and traffic control could be provided. And could not this license require reimbursement for services requiring a posted bond? Could they not make failure to obtain this license a felony or at least a heavy fine?

It seems to me a creative governmental entity could easily make their protests at least an expensive one. It would be easy to justify more for protection of these protesters then others… otherwise the more provocative the protest the greater the bond because of the possibility of violence.

Butch

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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 8:54:56 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

I really, really, really hate to say it, but I agree with the court. It is indeed a Free speech, Freedom of Assembly issue and if we start with the baffoons < wink, wink > of the Westboro " Church ". What's next. I see this similar to KKK rallies/marches and those idiots outside abortion clinics . While they all sicken me to death, according to our constitution they have the right to do what they are doing.

Someday those inbred Westoboro kooks will protest the wrong family. And I will loudly applaud whatever actions are bestowed upon them. Alot of Hell's Angels, Outlaws, Pagans etc are veterans. I'm sure some of our fallen soldiers have friends or family who belong to those clubs. I think it would be a great idea for a family to hire them to be security, like the Stones did at Altamont. 
                               mbmbn


Probably not the best analogy. Someone died at Altamont. 
 
I don't think resorting to homicide is the answer. If you have to mete violence out, or threaten to, to protect your right of assembly against others protesting it, then you've pretty much given them the win. The child of fanatacism is martyrdom.


I would be perfectly content if they < WBC > got surrounded, dropped their signs, messed their pants and ran off home. Each and every time they * attended * a soldiers funeral. That would be just fine with me.

               mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to EbonyWood)
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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 8:58:19 PM   
ouchthathurt


Posts: 15
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		My daughter's brother in law died serving his country and those horrible people showed up at his funeral. Thank god the patriot riders were there and spared the family from their protests. They were revving their engines to drown out their venom and hate.

There's no excuse for not imposing the protestors stay a certain distance away from the family and services, and why could they have not left the time restrictions in place. They have a right to protest but not in your face harassment... and that's what it is. Easy to stand behind the constitution instead of using common decency in rulings such as this. How you can compare to a person choosing to wear a fur coat or to those crossing a picket line is amazing to me. These families don't have a choice if their son or daughter, husbands or fathers choose to serve their countries and in doing so lose their lives. They are mourning a loss and you compare them to people wearing fur... I am shaking my head on that one.

It's tough being a conservative on this site... it's why I rarely post anything. I probably shouldn't come back to see the responses... you guys might make me cry :( And that's not nice :)

< Message edited by ouchthathurt -- 8/16/2010 9:07:58 PM >

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 9:03:27 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline 		The problem with the law appears to lie more with its construction than its concept. From the linked article (my italics):

ACLU attorney Tony Rothert said Monday that Missouri's restrictions created too large a zone in public areas where speech was restricted and made even non-disruptive speech illegal.

K.

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RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 9:09:34 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Honestly, I don't understand the final paragraph.  This is an issue that cuts across partisan lines; in fact, there are plenty of conservatives who AGREE with the court's ruling (and liberals who disagree).

quote:

ORIGINAL: ouchthathurt

My daughter's brother in law died serving his country and those horrible people showed up at his funeral. Thank god the patriot riders were there and spared the family from their protests. They were revving their engines to drown out their venom and hate.

There's no excuse for not imposing the protestors stay a certain distance away from the family and services, and why could they have not left the time restrictions in place. They have a right to protest but not in your face harassment... and that's what it is. Easy to stand behind the constitution instead of using common decency in rulings such as this.

It's tough being a conservative on this site... it's why I rarely post anything. I probably shouldn't come back to see the responses... you guys might make me cry :( And that's not nice :)

(in reply to ouchthathurt)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Judge: Mo. funeral protest ban unconstitutional - 8/16/2010 9:11:04 PM   
EbonyWood


Posts: 2044
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot


I would be perfectly content if they < WBC > got surrounded, dropped their signs, messed their pants and ran off home. Each and every time they * attended * a soldiers funeral. That would be just fine with me.

              mbmbn


So would I. From the view of being satisfied as someone who abhors their message.
 
My point was that if we vigorously defend right of speech, however abhorrent we find the message, then we should apply the same vehemence to the right to do it without intimidation. If we have to make a threat to break one law to protect another, then something is awry.
 
They are fruit loops of the first degree, but someday you may hold a wildly unpopular view too and want to do so without intimidation.
 
How much intimidation or harassment they use is a grey area legally. Surrounding them with bikers doesn't make them any less 'wrong' that they originally were, just outnumbered.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
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