Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 4:01:39 PM)

I find it really funny that the Conservative Right and Republicans as well as a few Democrats are condemning the entire Muslim community for the actions of a small minority of extremists, or the fact that some countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and a few of the gulf states have legal systems based on Sharia Law.

It is time for us to remind the conservatives, republicans and religious right of some of the people that they have spawned over the years:

Michael F. Griffin, Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, James Kopp, Scott Roeder all guilty of killing abortion doctors or workers.

Shelley Shannon, guilty of attempted murder of an abortion doctor

Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, Eric Robert Rudolph, Martin Uphoff, Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe all guilty of either bombing abortion clinics, doctor's offices or attempted arson of same.

Then of course there is Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.\


Using the logic of the Conservatives, Republicans and Religious Right, we should condemn them for the actions of a few.

Of course the conservatives, republicans and religious right members of this board will claim that these acts are not the same as the acts of a few Muslims.




Vendaval -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 4:14:01 PM)

There are kind, decent, responsible people in many religions. The extremists that resort to violence make the headlines and become a symbol of evil.




thishereboi -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 4:15:41 PM)

I find it funny that you are condemning all the Conservatives for the actions of some. But it's nice that you threw in a few Democrats. Gotta keep things square, right?[8|]




LadyPact -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 4:20:40 PM)

Sorry, but it's not unique.  The very same thing happened in the other direction with the scandals that the Catholic Church a while back. 

No matter what, there are always going to be a number of any 'group' (religious, political, or otherwise) that are going to make the others look bad.  The more sensationalized (meaning the more headlines it grabs), the worse it is going to be.




jlf1961 -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 4:31:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I find it funny that you are condemning all the Conservatives for the actions of some. But it's nice that you threw in a few Democrats. Gotta keep things square, right?[8|]



I was merely pointing out that the MAJORITY of the protests against the Muslim citizens of the United States have been part of the conservative, republican and religious right political camp.

Perhaps you should be reminded that the Community Center proposed at 51 Park is not the only one being protested. There have been protests against Muslim mosques or community centers in Wisconsin, Tennessee, and California.

There have also been an attempted bombing of a Muslim prayer center in Florida, not to mention Conservative Christian protesters outside Mosques during prayer times as recently as last Friday in Connecticut.

How about the Conservative Religious Group known as the Ku Klux Klan?

I find it strange that you cannot find a liberal group since the sixties that have promoted violence and murder as a way to further a cause, yet these groups seem to be a part of the conservative base.

Of course, being that the are conservative groups, the rest of the world should leave them alone, right?




Aneirin -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 6:06:02 PM)

Regarding the actions of the few against the goodwill of the many, I have lived in middle eastern countries and at no time did I ever receive any negativity towards my nationality or perceived religious belief, the Arabs whom I met were with perfect courtesy and good humour, including the police and other members of offialdom and security.

The only thing I did come across, which made me feel quite apalled, was the Western contract workers and their attitude towards the people of the country that employed them and undoubtedly enhanced their financial prospects and lifestyle. Daily I heard such derogatory comments made in private about the people of the country, comments such as towel head or rag head etc even the other immigrant workers from the East of the Middle East all had derogatory and unkind private western nomenclature, but always when the indigenous people of the country were not around to hear such insults, when they were, it was perfect politeness and a large degree of ass licking.

I had come to the conclusion that the more I understood about the Arabs and the belief that governed their life, the more I came to like and respect them, for they clearly had something we in the West have either lost or indeed never had. I liken that thing the Arabs possessed which many Western people in the country did not, was something close to the code of  Chivalry.

I came to the conclusion that those of the West are by and large arrogant, they hold a belief that they are for some reason superior than the people of the country they are graciously treated guests in and in those countries, the minority misbehave and break the laws they know exist, but I believe the authorities are aware, but tend to turn blind eyes as long as visitor activities do not  bring insult or shame to the indigenous population.

( As an aside it was common place for Westerners to brew alcohol for their own consumption, the infamous Sadiki amongst others, but the authorities being aware of Western tastes announced there was to be a raid on a certain date at a certain time searching for alcohol, of course when the raid happened, they did not find any alcohol, the reason being, it was all destroyed or secured elsewhere long before the time of the raid. The authorities finding no abuse of their laws went away happy, and the Westerners went back to normal. So in short, the authorities know, but turn blind eyes unless there is a possibility that insult or shame is a possibility for nationals, in a way, they accomodate foreigners to an extent even if laws are bent).

But it is the Western arrogance that astounds me, and I have likened it to the Colonials, people who are nothing in their home country suddenly feel elevated to VIP status when in another country, especially countries that seem to function perfectly well without our high tech adornments, countries which by our western standards seem primitive, but with a primitivity we would find it hard to survive in.

Interestingly though the common thing which interests both Middle East and the West is oil, we need it to live by, the Middle East sells it and the majority continue on as normal, as they have done for thousands of years, even in a relative primitivity, which they will continue unabashed when there is no more oil to sell. The West on the other hand, the falsety that oil has brought us, it will hit us hard when it oil comes to an end, so to me, the Arabs have the upper hand, their low tech life will serve them well.




thishereboi -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 6:07:36 PM)

quote:

I was merely pointing out that the MAJORITY of the protests against the Muslim citizens of the United States have been part of the conservative, republican and religious right political camp.


If that was what you were trying to point out, then you should have said that instead of implying that the whole group moves as one.

You can list all the hate groups you want. It doesn't change the fact that not all conservatives feel the same way. But keep projecting your bigotry on others. I only makes you look bad.




Kirata -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 6:18:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

It is time for us to remind the conservatives, republicans and religious right of some of the people that they have spawned over the years:

As it seems to me, you're condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few.

K.




jlf1961 -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 6:38:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

I was merely pointing out that the MAJORITY of the protests against the Muslim citizens of the United States have been part of the conservative, republican and religious right political camp.


If that was what you were trying to point out, then you should have said that instead of implying that the whole group moves as one.

You can list all the hate groups you want. It doesn't change the fact that not all conservatives feel the same way. But keep projecting your bigotry on others. I only makes you look bad.




Yet it is perfectly alright for main stream conservatives like John Boehner and other Republican politicians to paint Muslims with one broad brush? It is alright for these politicians and right wing news media personalities to paint groups, be they Muslim, Latino or others with the same broad "anti whatever" label?

Sorry, but the conservative base has made these and other claims about gays, minorities, religions for quite some time. It is common to hear such claims from Rush, Beck, and other talking heads for the right.

I notice you are not saying a word to condemn them, thus, you must support their views. If you dont, say so.




jlf1961 -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 6:43:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

It is time for us to remind the conservatives, republicans and religious right of some of the people that they have spawned over the years:

As it seems to me, you're condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few.

K.




No, I am merely pointing out that the conservatives, republicans and religious right have spawned a violent, radical group of individuals.

I have friends that are conservative and do not support or condone these actions. Yet, to listen to the right wing media personalities AND some of the right wing politicians, all muslims are just as guilty as the few radicals.

Newt Gingrich made a statement that there should not be a new mosque or Muslim center built in the US until Saudi Arabia allows synagogues and churches in Saudi. Other right wing talking heads have made statements that ALL Muslims are terrorists, terrorist supporters and anti-american.




BoiJen -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 6:55:17 PM)

What I find interesting is that at least a few of the monsters mentioned in the OP did not identify as "republican" or "Conservative" in fact more than one of them identifies(or did) as "anti-government". But those are facts and that shouldn't get in the way of understanding social reactions, human nature, or partisan bullshit parading around as moral high ground.

boi

PS. I LOVE when folk start talking about the KKK as a "religious hate group". I don't support their actions and damnit they're some fucked up folks in that little club. However, the Klan started out making movements and threats to intimidate Republican party members after the end of the American civil war. In fact, the latest organized version of the Klan has created it's own political party called the "Knights Party".




StrangerThan -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 7:00:06 PM)

I saw a lot of that in Africa too. Sometimes makes you embarrassed, not to be American, but for the Americans you're with. Holding it to USA folk since my actions with Brits tended to end up with me drunk on my ass. Means I don't remember them being arrogant. 




juliaoceania -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 7:02:55 PM)

Since I always hear how oppressed women are by Islam... I thought I would throw out a group that want political power in this country and consider it a "christian" country...I give you Bob Jones University dress code for women[8|]

Dress Code
BJU bases its dress codes for men and women on the application of the principles of modesty, gender distinction, appropriateness and distinction from the world.


Dress Code for Women

Classroom/general dress consists of a dress or top and skirt; however, pants may be worn off campus and for some recreational activities on campus.

Tops
Tops must be long enough to cover the midriff.
Sleeves are required.
Necklines may come no lower than four fingers below the collarbone.
Skirts
Hemlines and slits or other openings should not be higher than the bottom of the knee.
Denim skirts may be worn for casual dress (not to class or other professional-type events).
Pants
Loose-fitting pants may be worn between residence halls, for athletic events, and off campus (where appropriate).
Jeans may be worn in and between women’s residence halls and when participating in activities, such as skiing and ice-skating.
Shorts are appropriate inside the residence halls. Shorts that come to the bottom of the knee may be worn when participating in athletics on campus.
Ease
Clothing should be modest. Clothing that is revealing either because of fabric, cut or tightness is unacceptable.
Clothing should be loose enough to conceal undergarment lines and not to draw attention to the figure.
Other
Hose are to be worn whenever men students are required to wear a coat and tie (including Sunday morning worship services, recitals and productions after 6 p.m., Bible Conference and commencement activities). Dress shoes are to be worn when wearing hose.
Hairstyles should be neat and feminine, and hair color should appear natural.
Earrings may be worn in the lower lobe of the ear (no more than 2 matching pairs). Other types of body piercing are not appropriate. Tattoos are not appropriate. Excessive makeup is not appropriate.
Abercrombie & Fitch and its subsidiary Hollister have shown an unusual degree of antagonism to biblical morality. Therefore, BJU asks its students not to patronize these stores, wear their clothing or display articles containing their names or logos




Kirata -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 7:15:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

No, I am merely pointing out that the conservatives, republicans and religious right have spawned a violent, radical group of individuals.

I cannot imagine you being so sanguine about someone pointing out that Islam has spawned a violent, radical group of individuals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Yet, to listen to the right wing media personalities AND some of the right wing politicians, all muslims are just as guilty as the few radicals.

How about bringing this up to the level of an intelligent complaint, by providing some support for your accusations instead of just indulging in an ill-tempered partisan rant?

K.




BoiJen -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 7:30:40 PM)

Enjoy....

http://tvpigs.com/#/video/9cjjtKHxV_k




jlf1961 -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 7:34:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

No, I am merely pointing out that the conservatives, republicans and religious right have spawned a violent, radical group of individuals.

I cannot imagine you being so sanguine about someone pointing out that Islam has spawned a violent, radical group of individuals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Yet, to listen to the right wing media personalities AND some of the right wing politicians, all muslims are just as guilty as the few radicals.

How about bringing this up to the level of an intelligent complaint, by providing some support for your accusations instead of just indulging in an ill-tempered partisan rant?

K.




Peace has NEVER been the goals of Muslims. ... Glenn Beck 08/17/10

Newt Gingrich, the former House Speaker, also condemned the proposed mosque and the President’s comments.

quote:

“There is nothing surprising in the president’s continued pandering to radical Islam,” he said. “What he said last night is untrue and in accurate. The fact is this is not about religious liberty.”

Mr. Gingrich said the proposed mosque would be a symbol of Muslim “triumphalism” and that building the mosque near the site of the Sept. 11 attacks “would be like putting a Nazi sign next to the Holocaust Museum.”




thornhappy -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 7:37:06 PM)

There is a wide variety of violence committed by ethnic groups around the world, but we don't condemn the whole group.




joether -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 8:18:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

It is time for us to remind the conservatives, republicans and religious right of some of the people that they have spawned over the years:

As it seems to me, you're condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few.

K.



I seem to recall, Kirata, that conservatives were HELL bent, on attacking muslims, for 9/11. Or have you had your head in the ground for the past few weeks, regarding a mosque being built, 2 blocks, from Ground Zero? Just go on Fox News, and read the 4,000+ comments on any of the articles about it. The majority of them, are quite hateful.

How many conservatives, blame the Hispanic (most of them US Citizens) community for helping illegal immigrants (many who are not even hispanic) not only enter the country, but, stay in the country?

How about conservatives, blaming Obama and the Democrats in Congress, for 'spending money we dont have'? And conviently forgetting HOW, the Iraq war was funded. Maybe YOU, could point out on a map of Iraq the correct locations of the WMDs we located.

Or...the Birthers, blaming Obama for not giving his birth certificate, cus the guy doesnt want to be the victim of identity theft.




kdsub -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 8:21:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

I find it really funny that the Conservative Right and Republicans as well as a few Democrats are condemning the entire Muslim community for the actions of a small minority of extremists, or the fact that some countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran and a few of the gulf states have legal systems based on Sharia Law.

It is time for us to remind the conservatives, republicans and religious right of some of the people that they have spawned over the years:

Michael F. Griffin, Paul Jennings Hill, John Salvi, James Kopp, Scott Roeder all guilty of killing abortion doctors or workers.

Shelley Shannon, guilty of attempted murder of an abortion doctor

Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins, Eric Robert Rudolph, Martin Uphoff, Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe all guilty of either bombing abortion clinics, doctor's offices or attempted arson of same.

Then of course there is Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols.\


Using the logic of the Conservatives, Republicans and Religious Right, we should condemn them for the actions of a few.

Of course the conservatives, republicans and religious right members of this board will claim that these acts are not the same as the acts of a few Muslims.


Soooo …of course YOU are not condemning Republicans and the religious right because of the actions of a few... Hypocritical my friend.

Butch




Kirata -> RE: Condemning a large group of people for the actions of a few (8/18/2010 8:23:11 PM)

Yanno, I guess I gotta remember my age. It seems that a lot of the people who pass for "Conservatives" these days are what we used to call assholes.

K.




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