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RE: The question of the decade - 8/19/2010 10:21:35 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

Slightly off topic, but worthy, I think, of consideration, is that, when oil was at $50 or $60 a barrel, Americans had a fairly easy go of things. When oil popped up to $150, and gas went from $1.50 to almost $4.00, all those people who bought houses in the far suburbs because of affordability, had to pay an extra several hundred dollars a month out of their discretionary. They needed gas to work, so mortgage payments fell behind, the default rate (which was insured against by the likes of AIG) went way above what they had predicted, and all the funny papier issued by Goldman, Merrill Lynch, et alia, crashed. Collapse of housing bubble.


Not to mention the additional fuel costs that got tacked on to the prices of goods and services and passed on to the consumer, which put an even greater strain on the discretionary funds. The skyrocketing price of fuel that made Bush and Cheney's speculator buddies so rich sent huge ripples through the entire economy.


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RE: The question of the decade - 8/19/2010 10:26:25 PM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

the additional fuel costs that got tacked on to the prices of goods and services and passed on to the consumer


Exactly when I started growing my own produce. I had the land, and with prices double/triple, it was time to get growing.

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RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 12:51:18 AM   
literarylady


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Status: offline 		Fast reply

Nothing made sense about that war. It was not for "Iraqui Liberation." Ask women who live there. They are more oppressed now then they were under Saddam. Ask them, if you can get a private audience. It was only a politically expedient "war" for a retarded president under the direction of the evil Dick Cheney.

That is truly what I believe. Period.

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RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 3:32:52 AM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		I was thinking along these lines earlier,

Was the cost worth the results?
Will the results last?

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RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 3:54:23 AM   
Sanity


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Thats absurd.

Show us the evidence that we stole any oil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: praetorian1974

Well, someone has to secure the resources so that Americans can keep living the lifestyle they have become so absurdly accustomed to.


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RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 4:08:54 AM   
ShoreBound149


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quote:

ORIGINAL: literarylady

It was only a politically expedient "war" for a retarded president under the direction of the evil Dick Cheney.

That is truly what I believe. Period.


Cheney: "If we go after Bin Laden and it takes too long or we can't find him we'll look foolish."

Bush: "Ok, what should we do."

Cheney: "Create reasons to go after Saddam. We know we can topple his government and capture or kill him. We'll distract everyone from Bin Laden and create a fight we KNOW we can win. And....he tried to kill your daddy."

Bush: "Git er done."

< Message edited by ShoreBound149 -- 8/20/2010 4:09:39 AM >

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RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 4:31:05 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Thats absurd.

Show us the evidence that we stole any oil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: praetorian1974

Well, someone has to secure the resources so that Americans can keep living the lifestyle they have become so absurdly accustomed to.



We didn't steal any oil and that wasn't what he was saying.

Look up which companies have received the majority of Iraqi oil contracts.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 5:11:48 AM   
vincentML


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quote:


I'm not sure I can get overly excited about Iran pursuing a nuclear program. If I were sitting on a ton of oil, I would want to conserve as much of my inventory as possible for export, and use nuclear as a donestic power source. It makes no sense to burn oil that costs about $USD12 to lift out of the ground, when one can (mostly thanks to the unregulated shithead speculators at the CBOE and in London) sell it for $150 a barrel, and keep the change.


If the nuclear power is for domestic use why are they enriching the uranium to weapons grade? Hmmm.... quite a contradiction.

quote:

Slightly off topic, but worthy, I think, of consideration, is that, when oil was at $50 or $60 a barrel, Americans had a fairly easy go of things. When oil popped up to $150, and gas went from $1.50 to almost $4.00, all those people who bought houses in the far suburbs because of affordability, had to pay an extra several hundred dollars a month out of their discretionary. They needed gas to work, so mortgage payments fell behind, the default rate (which was insured against by the likes of AIG) went way above what they had predicted, and all the funny papier issued by Goldman, Merrill Lynch, et alia, crashed. Collapse of housing bubble.


Yes, the oil bubble had it's effect but you gotta consider the "liar loans" as well, doncha think?




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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 5:43:58 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Should we have not stopped Hitler ? Sometimes wars are necessary.

Oh please. To equate the two is ridiculous beyond reason.

But if we were correct in attacking Iraq then we can expect to attack Iran, N. Korea and eventually China, they all being fascists that imprison political dissidents and have weapons of mass destruction.

Let's roll.....

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RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 6:01:07 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

Thats absurd.

Show us the evidence that we stole any oil.

quote:

ORIGINAL: praetorian1974

Well, someone has to secure the resources so that Americans can keep living the lifestyle they have become so absurdly accustomed to.


What's absurd is suggesting anyone said we 'stole' the oil, we don't steal oil, we steal money and from the US taxpayers. $300 million is still missing from the pentagon. We go to war for the Haliburton/s and Balckwaters of the world...we go to war so my friend can set up an off-shore oil brokerage so I can resell our oil to the US Military...and make millions.

Kinkriods...GET A GRIP, we went to war for a profit. Saddam was going to start an oil exchange BASED IN THE EURO. That CANNOT happen...don't you get it ? Read that years ago and I believe that.

That would have resulted in a devaluation of the dollar and the Euro in being the world's reserve currency. Everything else was a ruse because the conditions that existed now being used as justification...exists all over the world.

War is a racket...they are all, all about a profit from 1898 Spanish/American war on...read your history. I have since read the late Marine Gen. Smedley Butler 'War is a Racket'  READ it.

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RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 6:21:55 AM   
Sanity


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Youre really reaching, and it doesnt matter how many far out conspiracy theories you come up with, we liberated the Iraqi people using plans and contractor contingencies which had been on the table during the Clinton era and even prior to that, and the Chinese are just as likely to win Iraqi oil contracts from the people of Iraq as any American companies are. And dont forget that all the Democrats were on board for freeing Iraq initially, from Clinton and Kennedy to Kerry and Gore and everyone else. 

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RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 6:24:49 AM   
Sanity


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Bullshit. Saddam Hussein along with his sons were every bit as brutal, bloodthirsty and power hungry as the worst of the Nazis were.

Every bit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Should we have not stopped Hitler ? Sometimes wars are necessary.

Oh please. To equate the two is ridiculous beyond reason.

But if we were correct in attacking Iraq then we can expect to attack Iran, N. Korea and eventually China, they all being fascists that imprison political dissidents and have weapons of mass destruction.

Let's roll.....








< Message edited by Sanity -- 8/20/2010 6:38:31 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 6:26:48 AM   
Sanity


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Pretty silly, this. did you get it off of a far left comic strip somewhere, or did you make it up on your own?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShoreBound149

Cheney: "If we go after Bin Laden and it takes too long or we can't find him we'll look foolish."

Bush: "Ok, what should we do."

Cheney: "Create reasons to go after Saddam. We know we can topple his government and capture or kill him. We'll distract everyone from Bin Laden and create a fight we KNOW we can win. And....he tried to kill your daddy."

Bush: "Git er done."


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 6:53:02 AM   
ShoreBound149


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Pretty silly, this. did you get it off of a far left comic strip somewhere, or did you make it up on your own?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShoreBound149

Cheney: "If we go after Bin Laden and it takes too long or we can't find him we'll look foolish."

Bush: "Ok, what should we do."

Cheney: "Create reasons to go after Saddam. We know we can topple his government and capture or kill him. We'll distract everyone from Bin Laden and create a fight we KNOW we can win. And....he tried to kill your daddy."

Bush: "Git er done."



All me baby...

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 7:11:58 AM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		Dont forget all the Billions that Cheney's and Dubya's buddies and contributors made from contracts.

Dont I also recall some right wing pundit promising that after we "liberated" Iraq that there would be cheap gas for all?

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 9:53:05 AM   
pogo4pres


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Dont forget all the Billions that Cheney's and Dubya's buddies and contributors made from contracts.

Dont I also recall some right wing pundit promising that after we "liberated" Iraq that there would be cheap gas for all?


I don't recall that, but I sure as hell remember Rummy's bold prediction that "the oil will pay for war".   Yeah right one trillion dollars later WE STILL PAY.  Britain got out of the empire business because of the domestic costs, France got out of the empire business because of  the  (you guessed it) domestic costs.   We, apparently unable to learn from others mistakes seem hell bent on repeating every fucking mistake every other nation has ever made.

Incredulously,
Some Knucklehead in NJ


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 10:30:56 AM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		Well I was an early supporter of going in, but I'll admit I'm pretty hawkish.

There was a Cease Fire Agreement, That Cease Fire Agreement was violated multiple times over 14 years.
I was sold on it when they said we gave them a 60 -90 day deadline to submit these papers proving they had destroyed all the WMD's and 14 years later they have not complied.

I saw it as a criminal not complying with the conditions of his parole.

But many didn't see it that way and needed 4,5 or 6 additional reasons before they would support resuming hostilities, so being politicians Bush and Co kept piling it higher and deeper, need another reason well lets see The sons yeah those sons of his are torturing folks, Oh still not enough OK how about this one.........
People got upset that they were "sold a bill of goods" but hell they asked to be sold a bill of goods. Personally I would have simply held onto the Cease Fire Agreement violation concept and hammered it.

At the 14 year point Saddam gambled and lost on his belief that Bush didn't really mean it. Saddam himself said as much, He wanted to maintain the belief that he still had some WMD's hidden away for a rainy day to help him maintain power.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 10:33:17 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

Bullshit. Saddam Hussein along with his sons were every bit as brutal, bloodthirsty and power hungry as the worst of the Nazis were.

Every bit.


I would say that the Bush cabal were even more power hungry and grasping... I mean, they did invade a country that was not a threat to them after all

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 10:39:29 AM   
Twoshoes


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Status: offline 		Wars are about strategy.
Reasons are a concern of 'used car salesmen'.

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RE: The question of the decade - 8/20/2010 11:50:26 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
People got upset that they were "sold a bill of goods" but hell they asked to be sold a bill of goods.



Not me. I just  asked to be told the truth. Naive, I know, but I'm funny that way.

So what you're saying is that because the truth wasn't a good enough reason to invade, the American people gave Cheney and Bush no choice but to lie to them. Or have I got that wrong?


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Profile   Post #: 40
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