RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran

RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (Full Version)

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vincentML -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/20/2010 2:57:55 PM)
The more I read on this situation the more complicated it seems. These exerpts from an opinion piece in The Atlantic Magazine online by one Marc Ambinder: "I've also spoken with Obama advisers who believe that breakout Iranian nuclear capacity would instantly create a new existential threat to American national security. But to a person, no one in power now believes that the consequences of an Israeli or U.S. attack on Iran would be productive, let alone acceptable. The military does not favor a "message strike" -- a single missile launched from a submarine that targets, say, a critical nuclear facility. Neither does the military believe that a special-forces ground infiltration is possible. So one reason why the administration doesn't want to use force against Iran is that force might not work. Indeed, it might result instead in Iran's existing nuclear infrastructure going even more deeply underground. Meanwhile, what (and who) would the targets of a U.S. strike be? And why should we suppose that that Iran -- now seen as irrational and millennialist -- would suddenly become rational and incentive-oriented after an attack? The only thing that might work to stop such a putatively irrational regime is a massive decapitation campaign involving special forces insertions; thousands of missiles; hundreds of U.S. war planes, equipped with next-generation jamming technology; a major campaign to own the airspace; denying Iran the sea (because they'd immediately try to shut down the Gulf); the transfer of thousands of troops from South Korea and Afghanistan -- and more. A few F-22 passes and a B-2 sortie aren't going to do the job." Is Obama up for that? Are Americans up for that? Or will Israel have to go it alone and very possibly fail? Then what? what-the-white-house-really-thinks-about-bombing-iran/61650/

pahunkboy -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/20/2010 3:49:55 PM)
IMO we wont see war yet. I think we need to be deeper into the financial collapse to see it. How many people died in WW2? Or said another way- what % of the then population died.

caitlyn -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/20/2010 3:52:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy Holy fuck!!! Where has caitlyn been? Notify Thompson that the prodigal daughter has returned!!! I'm sure Thompson will be along any minute to call me a militarist/fascist, because I dared to say that good bombers, bomb good. [;)]

vincentML -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/20/2010 4:55:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy IMO we wont see war yet. I think we need to be deeper into the financial collapse to see it. How many people died in WW2? Or said another way- what % of the then population died. Do you have a particular jobless number that we can use as a signal for the start of WW3 ?

praetorian1974 -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/20/2010 5:11:26 PM)
In a way, we're locked into a war with Iran eventually. The more that American resources become taxed by emerging economies, the more America is going to have to push into primarily Muslim dominated countries to replenish our supplies. Even if it’s not Iran at first, further incursions will inflame the fundamentalist populace. The Islamic nations will end up having to make war in order to avoid revolution.

Politesub53 -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/20/2010 5:17:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: praetorian1974 In a way, we're locked into a war with Iran eventually. The more that American resources become taxed by emerging economies, the more America is going to have to push into primarily Muslim dominated countries to replenish our supplies. Even if it’s not Iran at first, further incursions will inflame the fundamentalist populace. The Islamic nations will end up having to make war in order to avoid revolution. Do you think it is legitimate in this day and age, to invade countries for thier resources ? Full marks for not claiming the Iraq invasion was all about wmd`s though.

pahunkboy -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/20/2010 5:18:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: vincentML quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy IMO we wont see war yet. I think we need to be deeper into the financial collapse to see it. How many people died in WW2? Or said another way- what % of the then population died. Do you have a particular jobless number that we can use as a signal for the start of WW3 ? When the checks stop. when people are HUNGRY.

praetorian1974 -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/20/2010 5:43:58 PM)
The Ground Zero/Mosque issue demonstrates the divide between Islam and the rest of the west. (More so America) The European nations are feeling the weight of a rising Muslim demographic. Fundamentalist Islam has been vilified via the American media and so all of Islam by proxy. We don’t need too much of a push to invade another country preemptively. Whether it’s wrong or not to invade a sovereign nation for its resources is a matter for the victor who writes the history books to decide.

vincentML -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/20/2010 8:20:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: praetorian1974 In a way, we're locked into a war with Iran eventually. The more that American resources become taxed by emerging economies, the more America is going to have to push into primarily Muslim dominated countries to replenish our supplies. Even if it’s not Iran at first, further incursions will inflame the fundamentalist populace. The Islamic nations will end up having to make war in order to avoid revolution. Replenish our supplies? Is there anything there that we want but oil? What have we taken from Iraq? Confused by your comment. Are you we suggesting we invade for territory and/or vassal states in the mideast? quote: The Ground Zero/Mosque issue demonstrates the divide between Islam and the rest of the west. (More so America) The European nations are feeling the weight of a rising Muslim demographic. Fundamentalist Islam has been vilified via the American media and so all of Islam by proxy. We don’t need too much of a push to invade another country preemptively. Whether it’s wrong or not to invade a sovereign nation for its resources is a matter for the victor who writes the history books to decide. Ah, so yes ... you are suggesting we become an openly predator war mongering nation instead of our previous and current guise of an idealistic war mongering nation. Despite the vilifying of Islam, I don't agree the American people are in the mood for another war. They have soured on both the current boots on the gorund - Iraq and Afghanistan. I'll bet the Israelis have little confidence we will send our military against Iran.

Politesub53 -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/21/2010 1:33:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: praetorian1974 Whether it’s wrong or not to invade a sovereign nation for its resources is a matter for the victor who writes the history books to decide. Nice try at ducking the question. I asked if "You" thought it was right or wrong. Once again, do you think it is right for America, or anyone else for that matter, to wage war for another countries resources. I am not talking about protecting your own resources either, thats a whole different issue.

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/21/2010 5:00:02 PM)
"I can't afford another war." "Argentina it's time to invade the back end of nowhere, wink, wink."

joether -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/21/2010 5:15:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: praetorian1974 The Ground Zero/Mosque issue demonstrates the divide between Islam and the rest of the west. (More so America) The European nations are feeling the weight of a rising Muslim demographic. Fundamentalist Islam has been vilified via the American media and so all of Islam by proxy. We don’t need too much of a push to invade another country preemptively. Whether it’s wrong or not to invade a sovereign nation for its resources is a matter for the victor who writes the history books to decide. Yes, lets behave as foolishly as the Bush Administration. Have you forgotten THAT part of American history already? The only people REALLY against the Mosque near Ground Zero, are conservative Republicans trying to get political points....cheap....political points. All they did, was one more piece of evidences that states 'The NAACP, was correct in its claim, that the Tea Party is full of racists'. And everyone knows that the Tea Party = Republican Party. For all of the Bush Administration, the GOP has been trying to equate 'Muslims' with 'terrorists' and 'Islam' with 'evil' for nearly a decade. Since most conservatives believe some completely unrealistic stuff, does this sound that far-fetch? A large percentage of conservatives believe (and differing from person to person): A) Barrack Obama wasn't born in the USA, but in another country. B) Obama is really a socialists, and trying to turn the rest of the USA in to a Socialists country C) Saddam Hussein was 'best buddies' with Osama bin Laden D) Iraq gave supplies and arms, to Al Qeda. E) Believe George W. Bush won the election in 2000 F) The Health Care Act did/does contain provisions for 'Death Panels'. E) Financial Reform will make companies flee the country F) Obama is a Muslim G) Judges that vote for 'conservative' agenda is 'doing their jobs'; but voting against it, is just 'being an activist judge' Yes, and that's not even a 'drop in the bucket', of crap, conservatives believe as truth. We aren't talking religion or a religious view point. This is a philosophy that literally ignores facts in favor of fantasies. And gets deeply angery, if not borderline violent (or promoting of violence), when others dont embrace the fantasy as fanatically as they do. How dangerous, is for a whole section of America, to believe stuff that isn't true, even when the factual evidence is right in front of them?

truckinslave -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/22/2010 1:27:19 AM)
quote: Just fucking once I would like to see a US commander that understands that "hearts and minds" should be first. Like against Tojo and Adolph, right? The way to win a war is to kill the enemy (including civilians) and degrade his weaponry and infrastructure (including, specifically, food) until he not only no longer has weapons sufficient to do you serious harm but also lacks the will and/or strength to use the pitchforks still available to him.

truckinslave -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/22/2010 1:37:36 AM)
quote: Obama advisers who believe that breakout Iranian nuclear capacity would instantly create a new existential threat to American national security. I only quoted a snippet, but I agree with everything in the post. It's awful any way it is sliced, but: if they get nuclear weapons, where does it end save with using them?

truckinslave -> RE: The Next World War - Israel Attacks Iran (8/22/2010 1:40:33 AM)
quote: Fundamentalist Islam has been vilified via the American media They could not have better allies than the American media, unless its American politicians. They pretty much did the vilification thing themselves. Been to NY lately?

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