RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (Full Version)

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juliaoceania -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 12:51:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

The children should be charged with elderly abuse and tossed in jail.


You do realize there a set of problems here and nothing is this simplistic.
Children have jobs, many of them full-time, some without excessive time off to care for elderly parents.  This is a social problem.  Those same adult children also have families and children of their own.  They are paying childcare, how do you expect them to also fund elder care?  It is expensive.  I am not excusing their behavior in any way, but I think it is more logical to look at the complete picture.

sorry Katie...the complete picture does not include abandonment. No excuse.

What if this were a child that could not be cared for as opposed to an elderly person? Would you still say it is a societal issue and we should look at the whole picture?



You really have very little information to go on, the article was not very informative.

Edited to add, just because someone mentions the societal situations that lead to a problem does not mean they are "excusing" something



pahunkboy -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 2:01:20 PM)

Sings-   hotel California- you can come but never leave.. la la la,


I agree 100%  with Julia.     The report is sloppy.    A reporter- is supposed to get the fact- who what where why when and how.   This is yet another example at what passes as reporting.





sirsholly -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 2:17:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

The children should be charged with elderly abuse and tossed in jail.


You do realize there a set of problems here and nothing is this simplistic.
Children have jobs, many of them full-time, some without excessive time off to care for elderly parents.  This is a social problem.  Those same adult children also have families and children of their own.  They are paying childcare, how do you expect them to also fund elder care?  It is expensive.  I am not excusing their behavior in any way, but I think it is more logical to look at the complete picture.

sorry Katie...the complete picture does not include abandonment. No excuse.

What if this were a child that could not be cared for as opposed to an elderly person? Would you still say it is a societal issue and we should look at the whole picture?



You really have very little information to go on, the article was not very informative.

Edited to add, just because someone mentions the societal situations that lead to a problem does not mean they are "excusing" something
Read what i wrote, please. The "no excuse" meant there is no excuse for abandonment





juliaoceania -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 2:26:18 PM)

I think katy's point, and she can correct me if I am wrong, is that things like this happen within a social context


My point on top of katy's point is that you do not have enough information to condemn anyone. You do not know if these seniors were legally incompetent, you do not know their medical status, you do not know if they even have any relatives... all you have is one motel owner talking about an old person yelling for help. Is this person mentally able to make their own decisions? Do they drive? Did they drive themselves there? How many incompetent people are being dropped off at hotels like abandoned animals? Who has power of attorney over them? Children and animals have people legally responsible for them, elderly people do not lose the right to self determination when they reach a certain age. In fact, they have the right to determine for themselves until someone takes them to court or they hand over that right for themselves.

You seem to be making all sorts of assumptions based on NOTHING but a headline.



KatyLied -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 2:38:35 PM)

Yeah, I would really like to see the entire context of the situation. I am not going to say jail the adult kids until I know more about the entire context.  And when you give birth to kids you are responsible for them.  I can't say that I firmly believe adult children are forever tied to their parents, just as parents are not forever tied to their adult children.



juliaoceania -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 2:42:12 PM)

quote:

  I can't say that I firmly believe adult children are forever tied to their parents, just as parents are not forever tied to their adult children.


This....

I do not think my son owes me a damn thing... I know he doesn't feel this is true, but I sure as hell do



PeanutTigerinBox -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 2:45:55 PM)

here kids forgot their mother in the car park before they went off to a trip on a ferry [8|] that trip was meant to be their mothers "treat" btw....[8|]

http://policeoracle.com/news/Police-Find-Mother-In-Law-In-Car-Park_23667.html



pahunkboy -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 2:49:58 PM)

A few years ago- my family dropped me off on this board.


They never came back to get me and I am still here.



juliaoceania -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 3:00:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeanutTigerinBox

here kids forgot their mother in the car park before they went off to a trip on a ferry [8|] that trip was meant to be their mothers "treat" btw....[8|]

http://policeoracle.com/news/Police-Find-Mother-In-Law-In-Car-Park_23667.html


This couple is idiotic, but I would hardly call them criminal... they called the cops on themselves and they returned as soon as they could to get her

If we are going to post relevant examples of elderly abandonment, it should be a case of true abandonment



purelea2003 -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 3:20:39 PM)

This is a fast reply

Both my parents are gone - my mom almost 25 years and my dad for over 10. That said - I don't believe an adult child has any legal obligation to take care of elderly parents. As a matter of fact, when my dad's second wife (not my mom) put him in the nursing home and I started asking questions, the home administration told me to mind my own business. I had no legal rights.

I know I certainly don't feel my children owe me anything. When I can no longer care for myself, I hope I can just disappear somewhere so my kids don't have to watch the decline. I wouldn't wish watching the decline of a loved one on my worst enemy.



SorceressJ -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 3:22:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: purelea2003

This is a fast reply

Both my parents are gone - my mom almost 25 years and my dad for over 10. That said - I don't believe an adult child has any legal obligation to take care of elderly parents. As a matter of fact, when my dad's second wife (not my mom) put him in the nursing home and I started asking questions, the home administration told me to mind my own business. I had no legal rights.

I know I certainly don't feel my children owe me anything. When I can no longer care for myself, I hope I can just disappear somewhere so my kids don't have to watch the decline. I wouldn't wish watching the decline of a loved one on my worst enemy.


*This*



sirsholly -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 3:49:14 PM)

quote:

You seem to be making all sorts of assumptions based on NOTHING but a headline
Na...there was an small article UNDER the headline, Julia...i read that too. [8|]

Now...if you read my initial post  i clearly said i have seen it happen, though in a hospital setting as opposed to a hotel.



juliaoceania -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 4:03:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

You seem to be making all sorts of assumptions based on NOTHING but a headline
Na...there was an small article UNDER the headline, Julia...i read that too. [8|]

Now...if you read my initial post  i clearly said i have seen it happen, though in a hospital setting as opposed to a hotel.


You advocate forcing people to take responsibility for their parents? I suppose this is what the conversation comes down to, is who is responsible for the elderly.

I do not advocate jailing people because they make life choices I do not agree with, including taking their old parent to a hotel or to a hospital and leaving them there. Do I think they are asshole? Well, yeah, I think they are probably assholes.. would I do my mom that way? Oh, hell no. But we can't force legal adults to assume responsibility for other legal adults.



sirsholly -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 4:08:59 PM)

quote:

elderly people do not lose the right to self determination when they reach a certain age. In fact, they have the right to determine for themselves until someone takes them to court or they hand over that right for themselves.
If the adult child has assumed responsibility for the parent and can no longer care for them, this tells me the parent cannot care for themselves in some capacity...mental faculties intact or not.

Granted the adult child, short of a court mandate, has no legal responsibility to care for the parent. However, there is a responsibility to ensure the parent is cared for. Leaving them in a hotel room to care for themselves when they have diminished capability, if in fact that is what has happened, is abusive.









sirsholly -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 4:14:26 PM)

quote:

You advocate forcing people to take responsibility for their parents? I suppose this is what the conversation comes down to, is who is responsible for the elderly.
No.

What i DO advocate is ensuring that they are cared for. Abandoning them in a hotel room is not ensuring they receive care.

I said earlier that "Granny Dumping" is a holiday issue at most larger hospitals. Is it right? Not in my eyes. But those elderly persons were not abandoned. They were left in a place where they would receive care.



juliaoceania -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 4:17:45 PM)

quote:

Granted the adult child, short of a court mandate, has no legal responsibility to care for the parent. However, there is a responsibility to ensure the parent is cared for. Leaving them in a hotel room to care for themselves when they have diminished capability, if in fact that is what has happened, is abusive.


There are a lot of assumptions in this statement... if someone has their mental faculties I do not think you can hold anyone responsible for them, medical conditions, or not...

Do you know how many elderly people resist their kids trying to take away their independence? It is not something the elderly want to give up easily... and who can blame them


As far as leaving someone at a hospital, it might be nasty, and something a jerk would do, but it shouldn't be against the law...



sirsholly -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 4:23:00 PM)

quote:

I do not advocate jailing people because they make life choices I do not agree with, including taking their old parent to a hotel or to a hospital and leaving them there. Do I think they are asshole? Well, yeah, I think they are probably assholes.. would I do my mom that way? Oh, hell no. But we can't force legal adults to assume responsibility for other legal adults.
Hey...we all make life choices, but it is our moral responsibility to try to do so without hurting anyone.

Many who "dump" are assholes (ok..most) but you have the caregiver who is at the end of their rope, can't take it for one more minute, is scared that they will lose it and turn abusive...so they take their parent to a hospital. There is a Medicare (Medicaid?) provision in Pa called Respite Care that actually allows this to occur, as it is understood the road of the caregiver can be brutal.

What i was taking about as far as dumping were the elderly who were consistently dropped off at holiday time. This is not caregiver burnout...it is not wanting to be bothered with the elderly person under their care.

And their is a HUGE difference between dropping them off at a hospital and a hotel. I cannot see the hotel dumping as anything short of abusive abandonment.



sirsholly -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 4:29:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Granted the adult child, short of a court mandate, has no legal responsibility to care for the parent. However, there is a responsibility to ensure the parent is cared for. Leaving them in a hotel room to care for themselves when they have diminished capability, if in fact that is what has happened, is abusive.


There are a lot of assumptions in this statement... if someone has their mental faculties I do not think you can hold anyone responsible for them, medical conditions, or not...
. If the elderly person under your care cannot physically or mentally care for themselves it is your responsibility to notify one of the agencies set up for this. The one that comes to mind in Pa is the Pa Dept of Aging.
quote:


Do you know how many elderly people resist their kids trying to take away their independence? It is not something the elderly want to give up easily... and who can blame them
i had sole responsibility for both of my parents...both who refused any outside care.

quote:


As far as leaving someone at a hospital, it might be nasty, and something a jerk would do, but it shouldn't be against the law...
It is NOT against the law. Not at all. And it is not always nasty...not always done by a jerk. Sometimes it is an act of desperation by the caregiver.





juliaoceania -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 4:47:23 PM)

quote:

f the elderly person under your care cannot physically or mentally care for themselves it is your responsibility to notify one of the agencies set up for this. The one that comes to mind in Pa is the Pa Dept of Aging.


So if I see an elderly person on the street that seems confused and I call 911 to report that, are you saying I should have looked up the proper agency? I do not think you can argue that because of a blood relationship someone is more responsible than a total stranger from a legal standpoint. I can think they are assholes, but that does not mean I think that we can force people to be responsible for each other

quote:

i had sole responsibility for both of my parents...both who refused any outside care.


I took care of my mother's long time mate.. she was with him for over 20 years... his own daughters would not do anything for him. I think they were bitches, but I do not think they should be arrested for it.

I hope my son puts me in a home, I don't want to burden him

quote:

It is NOT against the law. Not at all. And it is not always nasty...not always done by a jerk. Sometimes it is an act of desperation by the caregiver.



You started off with an opinion about people based upon your experiences of adults leaving their parents in a hospital. I was going by what you posted about this, not my own personal experience



SorceressJ -> RE: Adult Children Abandoning Parents at Hotels (8/21/2010 4:51:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Granted the adult child, short of a court mandate, has no legal responsibility to care for the parent. However, there is a responsibility to ensure the parent is cared for. Leaving them in a hotel room to care for themselves when they have diminished capability, if in fact that is what has happened, is abusive.


There are a lot of assumptions in this statement... if someone has their mental faculties I do not think you can hold anyone responsible for them, medical conditions, or not...
. If the elderly person under your care cannot physically or mentally care for themselves it is your responsibility to notify one of the agencies set up for this. The one that comes to mind in Pa is the Pa Dept of Aging.
quote:


Do you know how many elderly people resist their kids trying to take away their independence? It is not something the elderly want to give up easily... and who can blame them
i had sole responsibility for both of my parents...both who refused any outside care.

quote:


As far as leaving someone at a hospital, it might be nasty, and something a jerk would do, but it shouldn't be against the law...
It is NOT against the law. Not at all. And it is not always nasty...not always done by a jerk. Sometimes it is an act of desperation by the caregiver.



These. My mother. 'Nuff said. *sigh* 



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