Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (Full Version)

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subrob1967 -> Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/24/2010 3:24:23 PM)

quote:

The key point in the mantra is an alleged $3 trillion cost for the war. Well, it was expensive to be sure, in both blood and treasure, but, as Hoven notes, the CBO puts the total cost at $709 billion. To put that figure in the proper context of overall spending since the war began in 2003, Hoven provides this handy CBO chart showing the portion of the annual deficit attributable to the conflict:


Note that these are CBO numbers Hoven has written about

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Little-known-fact-Obamas-failed-stimulus-program-cost-more-than-the-Iraq-war-101302919.html




tazzygirl -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/24/2010 5:32:31 PM)

First... about the author.


Editorial Page Editor Mark Tapscott was voted Conservative Journalist of the Year for 2008 by the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), and he was inducted into the Freedom of Information Act Hall of Fame in 2006. Before joining the Examiner in 2006, he was director of The Heritage Foundation's Center for Media and Public Policy and founded its Database 101 Computer-Assisted Research and Reporting Boot Camps at the National Press Club. He's a former assistant managing editor and managing editor for two other Washington region daily newspapers. He is also proprietor of Tapscott's Copy Desk blog.

Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/bios/mark-tapscott.html#ixzz0xZWx7g5t

According to the CBO, per factcheck.org...

The CBO Lowdown

The truth, according to a report issued by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office later in the day, is that the stimulus spending has had a positive effect on the economy, though probably not as large as Biden claimed.

It said of the stimulus bill, formally known as the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA):

CBO, Aug. 24: CBO estimates that ARRA’s policies had the following effects in the second quarter of calendar year 2010:

■They raised real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic product (GDP) by between 1.7 percent and 4.5 percent,

■Lowered the unemployment rate by between 0.7 percentage points and 1.8 percentage points,(and)

■Increased the number of people employed by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million.

As with its earlier reports, the wide range of CBO’s estimates reflects the inherent uncertainty of comparing current economic conditions to what might have happened had there been no government intervention. Biden’s claim of 3 million jobs "created" might be right, but it could almost as easily be half that number according to CBO’s assessment.

But either way, CBO’s report contradicts Boehner’s claim that the stimulus spending has hurt the economy.

Nevertheless, the total number of jobs in July was still 3.3 million below the total when Obama took office, and 7.7 million below the total in December 2007, the best month during the Bush administration. And for the record, CBO now estimates that the stimulus spending will total $814 billion by 2019, somewhat more than the price tag of $787 billion that was estimated at the time of passage.

-Brooks Jackson and Eugene Kiely


http://www.factcheck.org/2010/08/spinning-the-stimulus/

Note the date. The day after your OP article was written the CBO came out with these numbers.

As far as the figures given, the report, starting on page 32, seems to not agree with Hoven. Perhaps i am not reading it properly. It seems, by the chart, that 999 billion was spent on Iraqi and Afghani defense activities.

http://cbo.gov/ftpdocs/117xx/doc11705/08-18-Update.pdf

Hmmm... not far from the cost that was spoken about in 2007 of 1.3 trillion. Add to that the other figures in that chart and the total does add up.

So, im curious as to your point here.




subrob1967 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/24/2010 11:26:06 PM)

Tazzy, Randall Hoven was the author of the article, and the graph. This is a link to the report he used... http://cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=11705

quote:


[Data sources: All data for 2009 and later are from the CBO's recent budget outlook (pdf here). For an accounting of Iraq war spending, see Box 1-3 of that report. For an accounting of stimulus spending, see Box 1-2 of that report. For summary federal budget numbers in 2009 and later, see Table 1 of that report.
Federal budget figures through 2008 are from the U.S. Statistical Abstract. See Table 457 for overall spending and deficit levels, Table 458 for debt levels, and Tables 459 and 461 for spending in specific categories.]



My point is, we're going to hear a lot of nonsense from Democrats about Bush spending 3 trillion dollars on the war this election cycle.




popeye1250 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/24/2010 11:43:22 PM)

And we're going to hear a lot of noise about this "reccession" that we're in.
More and more economists are getting very serious about how bad this economy is. Even Jim Cramer is sour on the stock market as of yesterday.
Where the hell is James Carville? We need him in the White House screaming at Obama everyday, "IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID!"




tazzygirl -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/24/2010 11:46:38 PM)

His source did not break down the cost of the wars. Mine did. Perhaps you could address that. I read his report, looked at the graphs. I saw nothing, found nothing, specifically dealing with the Iraq or Afghan wars.




DomYngBlk -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/25/2010 2:22:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

quote:

The key point in the mantra is an alleged $3 trillion cost for the war. Well, it was expensive to be sure, in both blood and treasure, but, as Hoven notes, the CBO puts the total cost at $709 billion. To put that figure in the proper context of overall spending since the war began in 2003, Hoven provides this handy CBO chart showing the portion of the annual deficit attributable to the conflict:


Note that these are CBO numbers Hoven has written about

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Little-known-fact-Obamas-failed-stimulus-program-cost-more-than-the-Iraq-war-101302919.html



I dont know but seems you put very little value on the lives of the men and women that are over in those two hell holes. I frankly think their lives are worth a hell of a lot more than 3 trillion. I bet if your ass would be over there getting shot at you would too.




Politesub53 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/25/2010 3:17:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

I dont know but seems you put very little value on the lives of the men and women that are over in those two hell holes. I frankly think their lives are worth a hell of a lot more than 3 trillion. I bet if your ass would be over there getting shot at you would too.


The thread title said it all for me. "Stimulus cost more than war"  indeed.

I wont even get into how the financial mess was taking place before Obama became President.




subrob1967 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 10:54:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
The thread title said it all for me. "Stimulus cost more than war"  indeed.

I wont even get into how the financial mess was taking place before Obama became President.


You mean since the Dems took over Congress in 06, and continued to fund the was as long as they got their pet pork projects signed off by Bush, right?




subrob1967 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 10:55:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
I dont know but seems you put very little value on the lives of the men and women that are over in those two hell holes. I frankly think their lives are worth a hell of a lot more than 3 trillion. I bet if your ass would be over there getting shot at you would too.


I served my time from 86 til 92...Have you?




Politesub53 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 12:09:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

You mean since the Dems took over Congress in 06, and continued to fund the was as long as they got their pet pork projects signed off by Bush, right?



You just dont get it do you ? 




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 12:58:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

You mean since the Dems took over Congress in 06, and continued to fund the was as long as they got their pet pork projects signed off by Bush, right?



You just dont get it do you ? 


He's got it exactly right (other than the sentence structure).




mnottertail -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 1:27:04 PM)

except for everything, of course:

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/mspd.htm




Politesub53 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 2:05:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You just dont get it do you ? 


He's got it exactly right (other than the sentence structure).


You dont get it either, which hardly suprises me. To use a title that Obamas stimulus cost more than the Gulf War, only takes into account the war itself. How the hell can you put a cost on Human lives, both civilian and military. You, Rob and a few others are so busy looking to condem Obama at every turn you cant even spot the obvious.




Politesub53 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 2:07:37 PM)

Willbeur, I wont even get into the absurd notion that the Dems are at fault for not stopping Bush.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 3:00:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Willbeur, I wont even get into the absurd notion that the Dems are at fault for not stopping Bush.


Get into or avoid whatever you like, subrob was correct. You are the one that obviously doesnt get it.




subrob1967 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 3:05:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53
You dont get it either, which hardly suprises me. To use a title that Obamas stimulus cost more than the Gulf War, only takes into account the war itself. How the hell can you put a cost on Human lives, both civilian and military. You, Rob and a few others are so busy looking to condem Obama at every turn you cant even spot the obvious.


Human life is cheap, I mean how much does a bullet cost, or an abortion?

What you fail to take into account, is all the interest we're paying on the stimulus, so do you really want to talk about which is more damaging to the US economy?




Politesub53 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 3:38:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

Human life is cheap, I mean how much does a bullet cost, or an abortion?

What you fail to take into account, is all the interest we're paying on the stimulus, so do you really want to talk about which is more damaging to the US economy?



By your own words, anything that happened under Bush is clearly down to the Dems for not blocking him. That hardly sounds like a debate on the Economy, does it.




brokedickdog -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 3:39:16 PM)

I would bet you're not accounting for interest on the costs of the war either. How much of the war/s were financed with borrowed money?




Politesub53 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 3:41:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Get into or avoid whatever you like, subrob was correct. You are the one that obviously doesnt get it.


Are you running off already ?  I was hoping you would debate the notion that war is less costly than the stimulus.




jlf1961 -> RE: Little-known fact: Obama's failed stimulus program cost more than the Iraq war (8/26/2010 3:56:38 PM)

And what about the interest piling up on the money that was borrowed to fight this war???




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