RE: Single payer costs (Full Version)

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BoiJen -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 8:45:15 AM)

I'd much prefer an ideological politician over a quota based insurance agent any day.

boi




RacerJim -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 8:47:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

"A single payer system would not."

That'd be your little secret dude.


If "DCWoody" means you're in/near Washington DC I cordially invite you to meet me at the "RESTORING HONOR RALLY" at the Lincoln Memorial this Saturday, 8/28/10, between 10am and 1pm. It would be my pleasure to reveal my little secret to you.




Lucylastic -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 8:51:48 AM)


LMAO since when did any politician have the same health care as their constituents.
He went to the US because it was the closest hospital and he could affford to fly and pay to have it done
nothing more than an inconsiderate arsehole taking advantage of his position and funds.
NObody has ever said the canadian system is perfect, or the brit system either. Dont use that as a reason to tell lies





RacerJim -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 8:52:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I'd much prefer an ideological politician over a quota based insurance agent any day.

boi


Then I'd suggest you move to Cuba or some such.




BoiJen -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 8:54:22 AM)

Nah...single payer is coming...maybe not tomorrow or in the next election term...but it's coming. I'll wait it out. Besides, I love my country too much to watch citizens suffer at the hands of insurance companies or to not stay and vote idiots out who are in favor letting the insurance companies run health care.

boi




Lucylastic -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 8:56:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

"A single payer system would not."

That'd be your little secret dude.


If "DCWoody" means you're in/near Washington DC I cordially invite you to meet me at the "RESTORING HONOR RALLY" at the Lincoln Memorial this Saturday, 8/28/10, between 10am and 1pm. It would be my pleasure to reveal my little secret to you.

Dont you have to have some honour first  to be able to restore it? Beck is in a losing position from the start
He is nothing but a bloody shill,
Edited to add

Jen , seriously I hope you get it sorted out soon, and keep up the good fight,




mnottertail -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 8:57:49 AM)

1.  The canadian politician in question has been debunked long time ago, he owns a condo in florida, is a multi-millionaire and it was rather much elective surgery at that point, which he set up and recuperated at in Florida, for six weeks in the 70's rather than Canada in the 40 belows at the time, so thanks for playing............. uneducated to the last.

2. it isn't any secret, it won't ever be any secret and there is nothing truthfull to reveal about single payer, and least of all that you would fathom.

3.  Why don't you move to Cuba, being in the minority and all, why should the majority move to Cuba? 





DCWoody -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 9:00:11 AM)

No, I'm a Brit.

"Cuba or some such"

Some such meaning 'any wealthy nation (and most poor ones) other than the usa?' :p

Your lacking system is ridiculous, your reasons for trying to defend it unfathomable...I wouldn't recommend single payer for the usa, but you are on to such a massively losing argument ITT.....serious question, why are you arguing this?




rulemylife -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 9:30:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim


quote:

ORIGINAL: BoiJen

I'd much prefer an ideological politician over a quota based insurance agent any day.

boi


Then I'd suggest you move to Cuba or some such.


GODDAMN right Jimbo.

This here's America, love it or leave it.




DCWoody -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 9:40:08 AM)

Good job on the troll squashing mods :)




tazzygirl -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 9:49:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

No, I'm a Brit.

"Cuba or some such"

Some such meaning 'any wealthy nation (and most poor ones) other than the usa?' :p

Your lacking system is ridiculous, your reasons for trying to defend it unfathomable...I wouldn't recommend single payer for the usa, but you are on to such a massively losing argument ITT.....serious question, why are you arguing this?



The US has two seperate single payer systems in place at the moment.




rulemylife -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 10:02:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Good job on the troll squashing mods :)


You do understand that was sarcasm..............or maybe not?




DCWoody -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 10:13:57 AM)

No no, racer made a couple of obvious trolling comments that got deleted in between.




tazzygirl -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 10:17:19 AM)

No wonder why that was missed. No one pays much attention to him anyways.




cadenas -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 10:17:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
quote:

ORIGINAL: cadenas
quote:

ORIGINAL: RacerJim
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Hey Tazzy, oh Im not[;)] just sometimes you know it just feels good to reach out and slap the stupid?

And when your beloved single payer healthcare system says no to those who don't have the wherewithal to go elsewhere for treatment what then? It just feels good to reach out and slap the ideologists.

And when your beloved corporate health insurance says no to those who don't have the wherewithal to go elsewhere for treatment what then?

Our current system offers a plethera of corporate health insurances to go to. A single payer system would not.

Pray tell me which corporate health insurance would give you coverage after another corporate health insurance has just turned you down for some major treatment.

For that matter, pray tell me how many corporate health insurance companies make a "pleathora" in your mind? One? That's how many choices the people in Maine have.





Hippiekinkster -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 6:13:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

So you think that the NICUs in canada dont have tiny preemies


I know that those who can cross the border.
PS- We're not rich. I drive a truck, remember......
Yes, you make it quite obvious that you aren't an academic.

As an example of how expensve "state of the art" US therapies, such as those for cancer, offer very little inmprovement over simple palliative care (end of life care in the US consumes about 80% of all health care money spent by people), hers's a quote from The Skeptical Inquirer:

"In 1971, President Nixon and Congress declared war on cancer. Since then, the federal government has spent well over $105 billion on the effort (Kolata 2009b). What have we gained from that huge investment? David Nathan, a well-known professor and administrator, maintains in his book The Cancer Treatment Revolution (2007) that we have made substantial progress. However, he greatly overestimates the potential of the newer so-called “smart drugs.” Re­searchers Psyrri and De Vita (2008) also claim important progress. However, they cherry-pick the cancers with which there has been some progress and do not discuss the failures. Moreover, they only discuss the last decade rather than a more balanced view of 1950 or 1975 to the present.

On the other hand, Gina Kolata pointed out in The New York Times that the cancer death rate, adjusted for the size and age of the population, has decreased by only 5 percent since 1950 (Kolata 2009a). She argues that there has been very little overall progress in the war on cancer." http://www.csicop.org/si/show/war_on_cancer_a_progress_report_for_skeptics/

I recall hearing on NPR a week or so ago that terminal care patients who choose Hospice care rather than heroic hospital efforts often live a month or two longer, at considerably less expense, and with a better quality of life.

It's bizarre to me that for a country wherein the vast majority profess to be Xtians, those same people try so hard to avoid going to their mythical Heavenly reward.

End-of-life counseling is desperately needed.






Hippiekinkster -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 6:23:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It is your implication that mistakes ONLY happen in canada that i was addressing. Each country has their own problems. Implying the US system is superior to others simply because its for "hire" doesnt make it any more or less efficient than the Canadian one.

"With all the tools available to modern medicine — the blood tests and M.R.I.'s and endoscopes — you might think that misdiagnosis has become a rare thing. But you would be wrong. Studies of autopsies have shown that doctors seriously misdiagnose fatal illnesses about 20 percent of the time. So millions of patients are being treated for the wrong disease.

As shocking as that is, the more astonishing fact may be that the rate has not really changed since the 1930's. "No improvement!" was how an article in the normally exclamation-free Journal of the American Medical Association summarized the situation."
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/22/business/22leonhardt.html

Not gonna bother looking up how many people are killed by doctors each year by our "best medical care in the world" system. Or by iatrogenic illness.




tazzygirl -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 7:59:51 PM)

Causes of iatrogenesis include chance, medical error, negligence, social control and the adverse effects or interactions of prescription drugs. In the United States, from 120,000 to 225,000 deaths per year may be attributed in some part to iatrogenesis.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis




Hippiekinkster -> RE: Single payer costs (8/26/2010 11:18:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Causes of iatrogenesis include chance, medical error, negligence, social control and the adverse effects or interactions of prescription drugs. In the United States, from 120,000 to 225,000 deaths per year may be attributed in some part to iatrogenesis.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iatrogenesis
I don't know what "social control" in this context means. The author threw that out, and failed to elaborate.

"Meessen et al. used the term “iatrogenic poverty” to describe impoverishment induced by medical care[12]. Impoverishment is described for households exposed to catastrophic health expenditure[13] or to hardship financing[14]. Every year, worldwide, over 100,000 households fall into poverty due to health care expenses. Especially in countries in economic transition, the willingness to pay for health care is increasing and the supply side does not stay behind and develops very fast. But, the regulatory and protective capacity in those countries is often lagging behind. Patients easily fall in a vicious cycle of illness, ineffective therapies, consumption of savings, indebtedness, sale of productive assets and eventually poverty."

This is the American model of healthcare, and this is what I'm going through. I've applied for community assistance as my income is less than my expenses, due to fee for service medical care. I am a bit put out (that is to say, really fucking pissed off), and I would like every right-winger who likes paying for fee-for-service through a private insurance company to consider whether they have the resources to come through a major medical crisis financially unscathed.

I'm battling an ulcer on my heel, approx 3.2cmx 2.6 cm x 2.3 cm deep. I had an MRI in April, which indicated that the infection (MRSA and Proteus) hadn't penetrated the bone. 3 days of IV antimicrobials, then discharge. No additional tests, such as a culture swab or x-ray, prior to discharge. I have been scrupulous in keeping a barrier between the wound and the environment. I also have used a 0.25% NaOCl solution for sterilization.

An x-ray on 8/12 indicated a density contrast on the bottom of the heelbone, indicating bacterial infection. Podiatrist wants to debride the bone, and try to suture this gaping wound. I do not have the results of the swab culture taken 12 August. I think a biuopsy should be taken prior to any surgery.

Unless bacteria can penetrate a physical barrier (hospital footies/bleached socks), the hospital released me wthout a confirmatory test to determine that the infection had been quashed. I'm thinking that there could possibly be negligence on the part of the attending physician, for failure to determine that I was free of infection in that area prior to release.

This is, IMO, an example of iatrogenic illness due to negligence.




tazzygirl -> RE: Single payer costs (8/27/2010 2:13:16 AM)

Iatrogenic illness can be caused from many things. The article states what socal controls can cuase added ilness. You didnt read closely enough.

quote:

I'm battling an ulcer on my heel, approx 3.2cmx 2.6 cm x 2.3 cm deep. I had an MRI in April, which indicated that the infection (MRSA and Proteus) hadn't penetrated the bone. 3 days of IV antimicrobials, then discharge. No additional tests, such as a culture swab or x-ray, prior to discharge. I have been scrupulous in keeping a barrier between the wound and the environment. I also have used a 0.25% NaOCl solution for sterilization.

Unless bacteria can penetrate a physical barrier (hospital footies/bleached socks), the hospital released me wthout a confirmatory test to determine that the infection had been quashed. I'm thinking that there could possibly be negligence on the part of the attending physician, for failure to determine that I was free of infection in that area prior to release.


How did you acquire the MRSA infection?




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