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Being Your Slave - 8/26/2010 4:33:43 PM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

Yes, I'm talking about good old '57, which I'll quote first before moving on to my question.

"Being your slave, what should I do but tend
Upon the hours and times of your desire?
I have no precious time at all to spend,
Nor services to do, till you require.
Nor dare I chide the world-without-end hour
Whilst I, my sovereign, watch the clock for you,
Nor think the bitterness of absence sour
When you have bid your servant once adieu;
Nor dare I question with my jealous thought
Where you may be, or your affairs suppose,
But, like a sad slave, stay and think of nought
Save, where you are how happy you make those.
So true a fool is love that in your will,
Though you do any thing, he thinks no ill. "
--W. Shakespeare

I see this quoted on a good number of profiles, mostly submissive profiles. Not as much as the Nin statement, but it's got representation. I may have put it on a profile or two of my own once upon a time (these days I would not dare). For those of you who have experience with slavery, what does this sonnet mean to you? Does it have any connection to what you think of or experience as slavery? I know what I think about this, but it can be posted in a couple of sentences. I'm more interested in hearing about what others think.

Anybody is welcome to respond, of course. I find it quite useful to hear a lot of different opinions on a subject. I don't like to judge between the responses, I like to see the mosaic that a wide variety of responses provides. If anything I favor the ones that I disagree with or that don't make a lot of sense when I first read them. I learn far more, ultimately, from those types of opinions than from those that are closer to my own, because to truly understand them, I have to s..t..r..e..t..c..h myself.

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

Post #: 1

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/26/2010 6:00:15 PM

HisEvelyn

Posts: 252
Joined: 1/21/2010
Status: offline

My reaction to this quote is a mixture of happy sigh and mild cynicism. It is a beautiful sentiment, and very romantic to me. However, I also view it as very unrealistic and rather boring. I don't think either myself or my Master would be very pleased with me if all I did all day was sit around and pine for him, doing nothing at all except what he told me to do. I'm far too much of my own personality for that, and Master likes me being fairly proactive.

So I suppose my thought on it is... "It's beautiful in romantic thought, but impossible and boring in reality."

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 2

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/26/2010 6:59:02 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~

A) I can't help but be amused of a sonnet written from a male slave perspective in an era when women (except the Queen) were extremely limited. And it was believed that they excerised too much, their vaginas would flop out into penises.

B) From my studies of Shakespeare, while I enjoy his work considerably, I don't take it too seriously. He was like many a writer of the day, trying to curry favor and make a buck.

C) Whenever I read sonnets, I go back to my classes wherein we learned of how they were like a competive sport admist the court. Making it harder for me to take them seriously. I wonder how much of the words are real and how much are the "OMG I GOT U THREE DOZEN ROSES U LOVE ME NOW RIGHT?" sort of thing.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to HisEvelyn)

Post #: 3

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/26/2010 7:41:24 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

I like intensity, but that was way too gothic for me.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

Post #: 4

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/27/2010 5:44:09 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
Status: offline

I see stuff like this in profiles, my mind glazes over and I go Blah, blah, blah.
I don't want a quote, I want to know what the writer thinks and feels for themselves, however painfully articulated it may be.
I want to know their experience, how they react, what things inside get stirred up by certain acts and actions.
What I could give a rats ass about is what someone else thought at another time, in another place.

I also tend to view profiles full of such stuff with a jaded eye. Seems like lots of...how to put this politely...questionable profiles are full of pithy quotes as opposed to anything of substance.

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 5

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/27/2010 6:10:54 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Very romantic, entirely unrealistic.
And I know he'd be pretty upset if he came home later to find all I did was sit there in a trance waiting for his return instead of doing the laundry, going to the bank, etc.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 6

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/27/2010 6:53:55 AM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

Nor services to do, till you require.

I didn't interpret this as sitting around doing nothing - I interpreted it as I only do what YOU want, and what YOU require, and nothing for myself. He could have gone to work with a whole list of things for me to do - those are services to do that he requires.

It is very poetic. And there was a time in my life when I really felt this way and related to this sonnet. That was because my life was all about someone else, and that someone did enjoy my pining for him, and missing him, and would intentionally stay away sometimes so that I would.

Nor dare I question with my jealous thought
Where you may be, or your affairs suppose,
But, like a sad slave, stay and think of nought ...

This applied to me as well - do not think of what he is doing or where he is, just be happy he is happy.

I don't feel these things anymore; I am my own unique individual that someone else has authority over. I am to consider myself, and our relationship is about "us" and not just "him."

It's still a beautiful sonnet, that depicts suffering through love. It's not something I'd want for myself again.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 7

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/27/2010 8:29:51 AM

afkarr

Posts: 328
Joined: 1/13/2010
Status: offline

For romantic sentinments, I'd prefer a Dom who enjoyed a bit of the Lord himself:

She walks in beauty like the night Of cloudless climes and starry skies;
And all that's best of dark and bright Meet in her aspect and her eyes

Or something more modern:

One narcissus among the ordinary beautiful
flowers, one unlike all the others

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 8

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/27/2010 10:54:16 AM

FelineFae

Posts: 7756
Joined: 1/23/2009
From: i do wander everywhere...
Status: offline

This brings to mind long distance relationships, being deeply in love with one that you can't be with at the time.

Works for me.

_____________________________

FelineFae
All right reserved by Chaos
: Disclaimer :
Do not expose FelineFae to direct sunlight.
FelineFae cannot spell in any language.
Granting of Fae-Wishes VOID where prohibitededed.
Individual results may vary.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 9

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/27/2010 12:30:41 PM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
Status: offline

C.a.R.,

I'm not bothered by the quote and I think it works fine if the individual can articulate why it resonates with them. For some it explains their approach to submission perfectly and in a manner that's a little poetic which they might find appealing. A short paragraph that shares why the piece stood out would suffice. There are more than a few dominants that find this mindset desirable and one they'd hope to cultivate in their slave.

PS. It's wonderful to read you again!

~porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 10

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/27/2010 12:41:47 PM

daddysliloneds

Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline

it's so cheesy that it belongs right up there with 'the story of o'

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 11

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/27/2010 12:54:45 PM

texangael

Posts: 167
Joined: 12/14/2009
Status: offline

It speaks of an absolute and unwavering trust by the submissive in the dominant.

"So true a fool is love that in your will
Though you do anything, he thinks no ill."

The extent to which this is a realistic relationship dynamic is something likely to be debated, but it is an attractive ideal. I do not give any command to my slave with a thought that it will be questioned or doubted or made a discussion topic--I give a command with the thought that it will be obeyed. This expectation pre-supposes a very high level of trust by my slave, and so trust is something that is pre-eminent in the manner by which I rule over her.

It may not be a realistic expectation for a relationship, but it is a hope in all my relationships.

_____________________________

"Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no Try."
Corny movie cliche that just happens to be true.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 12

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/28/2010 4:43:39 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: texangael

It speaks of an absolute and unwavering trust by the submissive in the dominant.

"So true a fool is love that in your will
Though you do anything, he thinks no ill."

The extent to which this is a realistic relationship dynamic is something likely to be debated, but it is an attractive ideal. I do not give any command to my slave with a thought that it will be questioned or doubted or made a discussion topic--I give a command with the thought that it will be obeyed. This expectation pre-supposes a very high level of trust by my slave, and so trust is something that is pre-eminent in the manner by which I rule over her.

It may not be a realistic expectation for a relationship, but it is a hope in all my relationships.

The problem here lies in your humanity. To err is human, in fact. Being human, you will sometimes give a bad or foolish order which if obeyed will cause problems. If she obeys without thinking, then you aren't using her skills to their best advantage. By using her intelligence to double check things, you will have brought to your attention the mistake you are making before making it, giving you time to change the order and not cause the problem.

Utter obedience means she doesn't have your back. She shrugs and allows you to fuck up royally. Which, as people, we all do from time to time.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to texangael)

Post #: 13

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/28/2010 1:32:14 PM

Wheldrake

Posts: 477
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

For those of you who have experience with slavery, what does this sonnet mean to you? Does it have any connection to what you think of or experience as slavery?

A connection, yes, but at the same time the poem strikes me as strangely negative and even a little hollow. He describes his devotion almost entirely in terms of what he doesn't do and doesn't feel - the absence of jealousy, the absence of suspicion, the absence of other "services" that need attending to. Slavery for me was more about positive feelings of wanting to serve, wanting to please, and being ready (and even eager) to endure hardships, deprivations and cruelties. I suppose the sonnet is submissively romantic in a sense, but it also seems rather limp and passive. Could have been written by a zombie about a necromancer.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 14

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/28/2010 7:07:58 PM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn

My reaction to this quote is a mixture of happy sigh and mild cynicism. It is a beautiful sentiment, and very romantic to me. However, I also view it as very unrealistic and rather boring. I don't think either myself or my Master would be very pleased with me if all I did all day was sit around and pine for him, doing nothing at all except what he told me to do. I'm far too much of my own personality for that, and Master likes me being fairly proactive.

So I suppose my thought on it is... "It's beautiful in romantic thought, but impossible and boring in reality."

Nods. I'm largely in agreement, although I can see places where it might have a few secret thrills.

Do you think this poem or sonnet is a product of its time (when did he write? 17th century?) and that we, living in a much different time with very different concerns and pressures cannot understand such a sentiment due to our life circumstances being so different?

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to HisEvelyn)

Post #: 15

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/28/2010 7:10:36 PM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Very romantic, entirely unrealistic.
And I know he'd be pretty upset if he came home later to find all I did was sit there in a trance waiting for his return instead of doing the laundry, going to the bank, etc.

What if you weren't living with him? Would you find it more or less realistic then? The trouble with a poetic passage like this is that all the routine and rather important little details, like whether the author is living with the person they feel enslaved to, are left out in the interests of... art, I guess.

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 16

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/28/2010 7:21:41 PM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Nor services to do, till you require.

I didn't interpret this as sitting around doing nothing - I interpreted it as I only do what YOU want, and what YOU require, and nothing for myself. He could have gone to work with a whole list of things for me to do - those are services to do that he requires.

It is very poetic. And there was a time in my life when I really felt this way and related to this sonnet. That was because my life was all about someone else, and that someone did enjoy my pining for him, and missing him, and would intentionally stay away sometimes so that I would.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you're talking about the same person I think you mentioned in the emotional saidsm thread, the one who turned out to be very bad for you. It can be very hard to leave a power relationship, even a bad one. I admire you strength in being able to do so. I think if I were in one that was bad for me, the only way I'd get out is if there was someone on the outside, helping me to bail.

But here's my quesiton about what you said: You said you felt this was because your life was all about someone else. It could be I am placing too much emphasis on those words. But I wonder about this in relation to your current partner. Isn't your life all about him or her now, with the difference being that this dominant treats you far more humanely and compassionately? Or is this a different sort of relationship with a different kind of dynamic?

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to NuevaVida)

Post #: 17

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/28/2010 10:46:59 PM

NuevaVida

Posts: 6707
Joined: 8/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

But here's my quesiton about what you said: You said you felt this was because your life was all about someone else. It could be I am placing too much emphasis on those words. But I wonder about this in relation to your current partner. Isn't your life all about him or her now, with the difference being that this dominant treats you far more humanely and compassionately? Or is this a different sort of relationship with a different kind of dynamic?

No my life isn't all about him now. It's about so much more than just him, and he supports that. It's about maintaining balance, health, love, compassion, and being true to myself. Our focus is our relationship - the unit that is both of us - and not limited to one individual within it. We both must be happy and fulfilled in it, or it's time to revisit it. What makes me enslaved to him is his authority over me. He makes the rules and I obey them. But should he ever start leading me down a path that is unhealthy to me, we'll need to revisit the relationship. And if I need to leave it because it's bad for me, I will. I have had to take ownership of myself back before. I know I am capable of doing that again. Hopefully that won't be a need for me again.

But I no longer believe that slavery for me means giving myself up completely. There are two of us in this relationship. We both have to be healthy and happy together.

_____________________________

Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to CaringandReal)

Post #: 18

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/29/2010 4:49:15 PM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine

C.a.R.,

I'm not bothered by the quote and I think it works fine if the individual can articulate why it resonates with them. For some it explains their approach to submission perfectly and in a manner that's a little poetic which they might find appealing. A short paragraph that shares why the piece stood out would suffice. There are more than a few dominants that find this mindset desirable and one they'd hope to cultivate in their slave.

PS. It's wonderful to read you again!

~porcelaine

That's a good idea Porcelaine! I'm not considering putting it on my own profile at this time but if I ever do, I like your approach--I will say something about it. Sometimes when I read just a quote on a profile and nothing more about it, I wonder why the person put it up, what they were trying to say with it. That is, I wonder that if I'm not groaning, "Oh no! Not the Nine Levels of Submission...AGAIN!"

Thanks for the kind words! :) There's only one nice thing about deadlines: eventually they do end.

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to porcelaine)

Post #: 19

RE: Being Your Slave - 8/29/2010 5:06:48 PM

CaringandReal

Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheldrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaringandReal

For those of you who have experience with slavery, what does this sonnet mean to you? Does it have any connection to what you think of or experience as slavery?

A connection, yes, but at the same time the poem strikes me as strangely negative and even a little hollow. He describes his devotion almost entirely in terms of what he doesn't do and doesn't feel - the absence of jealousy, the absence of suspicion, the absence of other "services" that need attending to. Slavery for me was more about positive feelings of wanting to serve, wanting to please, and being ready (and even eager) to endure hardships, deprivations and cruelties. I suppose the sonnet is submissively romantic in a sense, but it also seems rather limp and passive. Could have been written by a zombie about a necromancer.

ROFL! Great point, although I doubt zombies have such a good way with words--although maybe after a big bowl of poet brains.... But as I have never met one, I must happily profess ignorance of this matter!

You're right, it is a sad piece and the writer exudes a feeling of hollowness, at least on the surface, although I wonder how much of that hollow interpretation (I sense it too) comes from a time/cultural difference: our living in a very different, far more active and social time. (shrug) I'm not sure about that, just wondering.

If great poetry can be thought of as perscriptive (Here, now! You're way too hyper and jolly! Don't forget your nightly dose of Plath--and if Plath doesn't do the trick, we'll switch you over to Cohen next week), then I think this piece would be perscriptive not for someone already contented in a happy bdsm relationship and certainly not for someone single who is looking for their partner (to the first it is irrelevant to their lives; to the second it might even my harmful) but perhaps to someone in an LDR, as Felinefae mentioned, or someone undergoing a lengthy trial. For a person undergoing something similar, the poem might be resassuring, even uplifting.

_____________________________

"A friend who bleeds is better" --placebo

"How seldom we recognize the sound when the bolt of our fate slides home." --thomas harris

(in reply to Wheldrake)

Post #: 20

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