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and when she can accept that it is normal for any man, let alone an owner of women, to seek numerous pleasures and conquests,

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*waits with bated breath for the answers*

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
In your entire diatribe, you have given your opinions, stated calmly as if they were facts, without a single citation or reference.  That drives me nuts.  I've had to sit through a crapload of Six Sigma stuff in which all case histories are manufactured.  When there are no real life examples... I wonder why.

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ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
OP, I'm an engineer. I think like one.

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ORIGINAL: leadership527

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ORIGINAL: masterpdg
If she want the full power dynamics of slavery, no.

God, I actually hate to say this, but "I agree".

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ORIGINAL: masterpdg

A few words on monogamy because they seem necessary. It is difficult to think of an idea that has been more damaging to women in this lifestyle particularly. From a theoretical perspective it undermines dominance and submission as it is the slave/sub placing a jealously and selfishness above her owner’s desires. It is an attempt by property to limit her owner’s pleasure, use and training. Indeed, breaking the deeply ingrained societal bias towards this historically recent concept is crucial to the proper training of a woman. Ultimately, a slave lives and wants to live for her owner’s pleasure not to retard that pleasure and when she can accept that it is normal for any man, let alone an owner of women, to seek numerous pleasures and conquests, she will gain a deeper is not broadly appreciated joy of knowing her surrender is without strings and that she did not have to limit her owner’s pleasure to find her happiness.

That was, of course, a theoretic discussion of power dynamics. There are equally important pragmatic concerns. Initially, many men who agree to the idea of monogamy are simply appeasing (a bad quality in Chamberlin or a Master) and will stray when opportunity presents itself (this is not unique to BDSM obviously although as many into the lifestyle are a touch hypersexual, it may have greater frequency although I have not studied the issue). Where as a man who is honest and upfront about requiring the true submission of his slaves, will most likely be much more honest in general. Moreover, a woman understanding her place and properly trained will not suffer the heartbreak extremely common to women who limited their owner and discovered that his honor was lacking (indeed, has anything caused women more emotional pain than this unnatural expectation?)

Another pragmatic concern is desirability of older single men, and this related most directly to women seeking experienced men above 30 or so. Men who have unable to acquire ownership of a woman by this age will often (not always of course) have failed for legitimate reasons. A single man of forty on this site may well be one or more of the following, live with his mother, be unemployed, have an action figure collection, speak Klingon, read comic books or be overwhelmingly unappealing physically (of course, there are exceptions). My general view of this lifestyle has always been because of the extreme vulnerability slaves are always apt to find themselves in, the quality of the owner is paramount and the conventionality of the situation secondary if not tertiary. Often divorced men will have less negatives at least in traditional dating, but in the lifestyle there is the concern that they have had a woman they could not train and that may sometimes speak to their skills as a Master.

I have met some very nice woman among an amazing amount of frauds on this site, but have also been told by those seeking total slavery and submission that they do not do ‘poly’ or want monogamy. They only dilute the pool of potential owners to exclude the most desirable and talented, set themselves up for almost inevitable heartbreak and undermine the thing they think they are offering. I hope these words help woman, even if just a bit, that the quality of the owner is determined by his honestly and his dominance not his conventionality.

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ORIGINAL: DesFIP
DomImus, all relationships are conditional.

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ORIGINAL: DomImus

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ORIGINAL: leadership527

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ORIGINAL: masterpdg
If she want the full power dynamics of slavery, no.

God, I actually hate to say this, but "I agree".

Me, too - and it doesn't even pain me to admit it. And while I don't subscribe to every single nuance of his OP in a general sense he's right. I have been saying for a long time that most submission takes place on the terms of the submissive. Call that what you want - my euphemism is "conditional submission". I don't mean that a put down. It's just the reality of the situation the majority of the time.

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ORIGINAL: SpiritedRadiance

And thats why i Love the fact that I live in a country where slavery is illegal and anything against my will can come with Charges from the law.

Conditional or not, we all have limits, we choose partners based on those limits, whining doesn't change the fact we all have a breaking point.

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As for femdom relationships, I cannot comment and find very few women who truly obtain transcendent pleasure from being dominant

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ORIGINAL: DomImus
Call that what you want - my euphemism is "conditional submission". I don't mean that a put down. It's just the reality of the situation the majority of the time.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact
The problem with the premise is that it is based on instantaneous slavery.  If this is true, then there really is no Mastery.  There is no process of relinquishing control.  Trust being complete and automatic from the first moment.  There is no deepening of submission.  There is no growth in the dynamic.

That may work for some people and there may be those out there that expect this from the first moment.  I have never found that to work for Me.  In reality, I wouldn't want it.  I would much prefer to earn the faith, trust, and submission of an individual over the course of time.