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A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 7:43:38 AM

DarkSteven

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There's no question that Peecher made the girls' team a force to be reckoned with, in a dinky town that had no expectations of high achievement. But at what cost? http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15928502

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 8:06:15 AM

thornhappy

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It seems to be a common thing that coaches can be just complete assholes but as long as they are winning (or in this case winning and not showing up with a lot of girlfriends) anything goes. Just look at Bobby Knight.

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 11:48:22 AM

DesFIP

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It's always sad when someone allows their personal problems to impact their public life.

As a coach and teacher, he should have known that he had to model how to handle things, which does not mean being abusive to those in your power.

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 12:25:17 PM

DomImus

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So this guy is a scourge but it took them ten years to can him?

Glad I don't live there.

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 5:13:21 PM

DesFIP

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He just lost it in the last year, during his divorce.
Previously he was tough but not abusive.

Personally I prefer the kids to have gentler, kinder coaches but the truth is that they don't win as well with those.
My oldest shows horses, she spent the summer taking lessons from tough trainers because the college team coaches aren't rough enough on her. She has no problem with the reining trainer yelling at her to take that broompole out of her ass and stop sitting up straight. She also has no problem with the jumping trainer taping a broompole down her spine to force her to sit up straight.

These are not people I would want teaching me, but she feels she improves incredibly under this kind of a routine. Some kids do well with tough coaches and others don't. It comes down to how competitive you are.

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 5:16:29 PM

servantforuse

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Vince Lombardi was one of the greatest coaches of all time. He was respected and feared by his players. He was also no saint in his private life..

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 5:31:00 PM

zenny

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I avoid teams with coaches of that nature like the plague.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

These are not people I would want teaching me, but she feels she improves incredibly under this kind of a routine. Some kids do well with tough coaches and others don't. It comes down to how competitive you are.

Not to slander your daughter but I find it comes down to motivation. Tough coaches are great motivators and in a general non-high level setting are great at getting the team to preform above what it would otherwise. However, where motivation is high, I find tough coaches to be unnecessary in individual cases or in very high level (travel, pro, invite only) teams. Sure some people prefer it but it is not a necessity and often times a disadvantages making the players disgruntled in those cases.

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 5:43:11 PM

servantforuse

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This is the reason that Vince Lombardi was a winning coach. They're job is to win and motivating players is the only way to do so..I think kids in high school and college are much better off with tough coaches if they do go out for sports.

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 6:07:14 PM

zenny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

This is the reason that Vince Lombardi was a winning coach. They're job is to win and motivating players is the only way to do so..I think kids in high school and college are much better off with tough coaches if they do go out for sports.

I think we may have a different definition of 'tough'. I see tough as a style of motivation. The verbal and emotional abuse a means to get the player(s) to finish the workout. I see it as unnecessary for the player(s) that will finish the workout anyways and don't need to be dogged to get it done and done well. The extra push that a tough coach gives to a motivated player only serves to push them away and degrades their performance in my experience (vicarious and personal). I don't see generally tough coaches as good coaches because they don't tailor their interaction to each player (or do so poorly).

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 6:22:41 PM

servantforuse

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That type of coach usually doesn't win. There are exceptions, but not to many..

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 6:36:58 PM

zenny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

That type of coach usually doesn't win. There are exceptions, but not to many..

In my 'good coach' description I am describing one that knows how to get the best out of each individual player and is not detrimental to performance. I fail to see how a 'tough' coach who cannot get their players to perform to the top of their ability will triumph. Perhaps you're adding in the assumption of easier workouts with my description?

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/29/2010 6:52:59 PM

servantforuse

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I collect Packers autographs and other memorabilia. I have personally met 50 to 60 players who played for coach Lombardi. There isn't one of them that would agree with you. They won because he was tough and got everything out of them..Ever hear of the Ice Bowl ?

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/30/2010 9:06:13 AM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zenny

I avoid teams with coaches of that nature like the plague.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

These are not people I would want teaching me, but she feels she improves incredibly under this kind of a routine. Some kids do well with tough coaches and others don't. It comes down to how competitive you are.

Not to slander your daughter but I find it comes down to motivation. Tough coaches are great motivators and in a general non-high level setting are great at getting the team to preform above what it would otherwise. However, where motivation is high, I find tough coaches to be unnecessary in individual cases or in very high level (travel, pro, invite only) teams. Sure some people prefer it but it is not a necessity and often times a disadvantages making the players disgruntled in those cases.

As I said, I wouldn't take a trainer like this myself. But, she finds the tougher trainers will tell her exactly what she does wrong, what needs to be improved, down to the tiniest details. And at the top level of competition, success depends on just that, improving the tiny details.

For a kid in tee ball, there shouldn't be anything rough. If you're a high school senior competing for a free ride to college, this is what you need. The problem is that on a high school team, some are there just for fun with friends, while others are deadly serious. So do you coach to the level of the more serious players or to the less serious ones?

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/30/2010 4:55:54 PM

zenny

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You design the workouts around what you, the coach, wants out of the team. You can also alter it on a per person basis. In swimming we had a lot of lanes. As you moved from one lane to another you had different difficulties.

My distinction remains that a good coach will still point out those little things whereas a tough coach will be a dick about it (and maybe not even point them out). tough =/= good.

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RE: A very competitive coach - 8/30/2010 8:15:57 PM

DesFIP

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In a perfect world, maybe.

Truth is, I've never known a non tough trainer/coach to be that concerned with the details. They're more concerned with the kids feelings. Which is a good thing, but not something that gets the big trophy.

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