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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/23/2006 11:28:41 AM

TeeGO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO

I will say people are different. What works for some doesn't for others. If I was long term in chastity I would become frustrated, distracted, resentful, angry, and very unsubmissive. Forced long term chastity on me would be like trying to make a dominant into a sub. It would not work.

It might not work, but it could be fun to try... <wicked smile>

Actually, I wouldn't take a sub who I knew had your mindset and shove him into a device (though again nice thought ;). ) If I were to decide to proceed with one who thought as you do, I would evaluate him individually, and may well conclude that chastity isn't right for him ... or maybe things would evolve differently... If I said never very often, I wouldn't have had half the experiences I have.

You are oh so wicked.

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/23/2006 11:42:00 AM

ServiceNTucson

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Joined: 4/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

While I may not understand what it is to be a-sexual, I can certainly respect that you are. Your comments all made sense to me, except in your mention of a penis being locked in plastic drawing attention to sexuality.

When a male is "free" and as activities are taking place which he will likely find to be arousing...his having an ongoing erection is going to be something that draws attention to his sexuality, along with giving him the power of having the erection. However, once placed in chastity... sure at first it calls attention to sexuality, but after a while of being constantly contained... the sexuality is tamed.... his body begins to accept the flaccid state as normal and he is no longer so easily stimulated. He becomes more docile, more focused on the relationship, and not the orgasm or the hard on. Everything isn't about sex drive... his drive is purely everything else.

I am not suggesting that chastity is the right way (though it is for Me) or the only way, but I think that there are some similarities in a male in long-term chastity, and an a-sexual.

I must both agree and disagree with Mistress Lorelei here. I was locked up for eight months once. The urge does not go away. The erections do not stop. One thing I was surprised to learn is how often I get erections while sleeping. The CB woke me up every time that happened, two to three times per night.

My body never did "begin to accept the flaccid state as normal" and begin to be less easily stimulated. The opposite happened, in fact.

Nonetheless, the knowledge that there would be no orgasms for me did, in fact, make me more docile, more focused on the relationship, more focused on Her pleasure. Not from the hope that if I pleased Her enough, I'd be allowed to spurt, I knew that wouldn't happen. Rather, it was from knowing that the greatest pleasure I would be allowed would be to participate in Her pleasure, the sublimating of my pleasure to Hers. Thus, pleasing Her (in ALL ways, not just sexually) became not just my primary focus, but my sole focus.

Enforced chastity, to me, is about as far from a-sexuality as one can get. It does not stop anything from being arousing, it makes EVERYTHING arousing, cleaning Her house, working on Her car, serving Her dinner.

_____________________________

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"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/23/2006 11:54:51 AM

luckyslaveboync

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There are two different conversations in this thread, one on Dommes having/denying intercourse with their subs, and one on orgasm control. lucky's owner does not allow the former but does control orgasms. It is hard for lucky to imagine feeling very submissive is one's Owner does not care how/when/where the sub cums, and indeed, lucky recalls a year or more ago when this sub's owner, angered by an unauthorized cum on this sub's part, used disinterest as a punishment. lucky definitely did not like his Owner "not caring" even though there was complete freedom to cum. If one is submissive by nature, that is the opposite of what one wants.

But on the main question, about orgasm control, lucky takes the prevailing social science view of motivation: intermittent reward is more motivating than either constant reward or constant denial.

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/23/2006 12:15:20 PM

EbonyFtshGoddess

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luckyslaveboync

quote:

intermittent reward is more motivating than either constant reward or constant denial.

i agree. and it's not like ANYONE can survive being in chastity permanently without release. that's just not possible. either they will have a nocturnal emission or suffer extreme prostate damage.

a kink friendly urologist i know once told me that he knew a guy that was into like self orgasm denial (he had a slew of other mental illnesses as well).. he went for NINE MONTHS without orgasm because he felt like the semen kept him safe from the devil or something.. but anyhoo.

he started having REALLY bad problems and pains. i guess it got bad enough for him to see my friend. it turns out that his vas deferens had like atrophied and he wasn't able to ejaculate. he told me that a male in chastity can safely go about 120 days before it's imperative for release, and he told me it can be a bit longer because when a man needs to release (chastity or not).. he'll have a wetdream when his prostate becomes overfilled (typically) because they are still producing semen daily- it's just not being released.

that one guy needed to be milked because masturbating didn't work and the semen needed to be forced out via prostate massage (which is what my slaves get reguarly for prostate maintanence.. not a reward..that's different). when he finally released his semen my friend said it was thick and ropey and like funky smelling and oddly coloured.

he told me that guy screamed like he WAS letting demons out of him. i bet that was soooo painful.

there is a difference between chastity and orgasm denial as you've so aptly pointed out. chastity isn't about completely never coming again- in fact that's not possible or healthy. it's about taking out of his hands (literally and figuratively) the ability to have control over his own cock. orgasm is earned and given. but it DEFINITELY makes a male more supple and malleable and service oriented because he will be more focused on his mistress' happiness and pleasure because he knows if he's not then she won't let him out.

my slaves are all milked very regularly. if they displease me then they don't get a forceful orgasm.. instead i'll milk them as a punishment because as you know, milking alleviates all pleasurable contractions associated with an orgasm. yes they still get the release and the emptying of the prostate without any of the pleasure of an orgasm. next time they try harder to be pleasing.

sometimes when i'm being a real bitch i'll use a desensitizing cream on them when i handle their cocks so they don't even get the peripheral enjoyment of feeling me touch them. or i'll place a bag of ice around their cocks and balls while i milk them so there is no pleasure.

they earn pleasurable release as a reward, but they by NO means expect it.

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/23/2006 1:02:28 PM

MistressLorelei

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ServiceNTucson

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

While I may not understand what it is to be a-sexual, I can certainly respect that you are. Your comments all made sense to me, except in your mention of a penis being locked in plastic drawing attention to sexuality.

When a male is "free" and as activities are taking place which he will likely find to be arousing...his having an ongoing erection is going to be something that draws attention to his sexuality, along with giving him the power of having the erection. However, once placed in chastity... sure at first it calls attention to sexuality, but after a while of being constantly contained... the sexuality is tamed.... his body begins to accept the flaccid state as normal and he is no longer so easily stimulated. He becomes more docile, more focused on the relationship, and not the orgasm or the hard on. Everything isn't about sex drive... his drive is purely everything else.

I am not suggesting that chastity is the right way (though it is for Me) or the only way, but I think that there are some similarities in a male in long-term chastity, and an a-sexual.

I must both agree and disagree with Mistress Lorelei here. I was locked up for eight months once. The urge does not go away. The erections do not stop. One thing I was surprised to learn is how often I get erections while sleeping. The CB woke me up every time that happened, two to three times per night.

My body never did "begin to accept the flaccid state as normal" and begin to be less easily stimulated. The opposite happened, in fact.

Nonetheless, the knowledge that there would be no orgasms for me did, in fact, make me more docile, more focused on the relationship, more focused on Her pleasure. Not from the hope that if I pleased Her enough, I'd be allowed to spurt, I knew that wouldn't happen. Rather, it was from knowing that the greatest pleasure I would be allowed would be to participate in Her pleasure, the sublimating of my pleasure to Hers. Thus, pleasing Her (in ALL ways, not just sexually) became not just my primary focus, but my sole focus.

Enforced chastity, to me, is about as far from a-sexuality as one can get. It does not stop anything from being arousing, it makes EVERYTHING arousing, cleaning Her house, working on Her car, serving Her dinner.

If chastity is enforced 24/7 and orgasm is not allowed at all (i.e release solely through milking), the desire to please will no longer be based on your being allowed to come. You will rely on her to keep you 'maintained' and you would feel controlled by her, though everything would not be sexually-based as orgasm would never be a reward. Additionally, if a submissve who was able to be in this type of extended chastity was feeling erection-prone as you mentioned (while sleeping, etc), this 'automatic' response can be often turned off by several weeks on spikes... (i.e. the points of intrigue in a chastity device). The erection trigger is met with pain, and soon the body will not want to feel the pain or the associated erection that went with it.

Of course every case may not go this way....little is concrete in this world. A submissive would have to be given the motivation to succeed, be a bit pain tolerant, and have a strong desire to please (i.e. a bond) but in My experience this has worked well.....I am ready to do it again.

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/23/2006 8:57:57 PM

LindaLashes

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Just the experience from masturbation "allowance" has made me very submissive to the power Mistress exerted over my sexual drive.
It´s was incredibly difficult at first, denying myself such primal urges but reminding myself that I shouldnt because of Mistress, I couldnt because of Mistress, really helped. It´s still a bit difficult to say no though.
On the other hand I have no idea how I will do in real chastity, I do know that it may make me feel somewhat better, not having to be the one resisting temptation.

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/23/2006 10:11:50 PM

ServiceNTucson

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressLorelei

If chastity is enforced 24/7 and orgasm is not allowed at all (i.e release solely through milking), the desire to please will no longer be based on your being allowed to come.

This is true. To my admittedly perverse way of thinking, when a male slave is permitted orgasms, he becomes manipulative, deceitful and selfish, doing whatever he thinks will get him those orgasms. He is motivated not by desire to please his Owner, but by desire to please himself.

I will grant that that if his orgasms are granted only as reward for having pleased Her, it will encourage his diligence in doing so. But his motive will be selfishness.

To those who say "who cares what his motive is?" I say that, in law, motive is the entire difference between justifiable homicide and capital murder. In BDSM, motive is the difference between being a self serving bottom and a dedicated service slave.

quote:

You will rely on her to keep you 'maintained' and you would feel controlled by her, though everything would not be sexually-based as orgasm would never be a reward.

I must respectfully disagree. I don't think that orgasm, at least my own orgasm, is absolutely necessary for things to be sexually based. I find there's something delightfully sexy about knowing that the closest I will be allowed to an orgasm will be when (if) She grants me the honor of being the toy She uses to attain Her own.

quote:

Additionally, if a submissve who was able to be in this type of extended chastity was feeling erection-prone as you mentioned (while sleeping, etc), this 'automatic' response can be often turned off by several weeks on spikes... (i.e. the points of intrigue in a chastity device). The erection trigger is met with pain, and soon the body will not want to feel the pain or the associated erection that went with it.

I never tried the points of intrigue, so I can neither confirm or deny this. However, being the pain slut that I am, with a particular love of CBT, I fear that it could just have the opposite effect.

quote:

Of course every case may not go this way....little is concrete in this world. A submissive would have to be given the motivation to succeed, be a bit pain tolerant, and have a strong desire to please (i.e. a bond) but in My experience this has worked well.....I am ready to do it again.

I have to agree entirely with this. All I can say is, damn those 2261 miles between Tucson and Ft. Lauderdale.

_____________________________

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"I find television very educating. Every time somebody turns on the set, I go into the other room and read a book."

Groucho Marx

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/23/2006 10:45:29 PM

crouchingtigress

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I will write more when I finish reading the whole thread, but I just wanted to tell every one if they have HBO there is a documentary on chastity running right now and it is incredible filled with all sorts of info from a historical and scientific POV

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/23/2006 10:55:55 PM

BlkTallFullfig

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyFtshGoddess
I started thinking about what I personally feel would "cheapen" a relationship with my slaves (as some have posted how accepting tributes cheapens an interaction).. this isn't a tribute post, this took me to another thought of what I feel would "cheapen" an interaction.

I personally don't have sex with my slaves. I know that is the practice of most of my domina friends. I feel bedding my submissive for Me would cheapen the experience. I view their servitude as entirely non sexual (in the literal coital sense.. obviously submission on some levels is sexually arousing)..

This is the reason BDSM/WIITWD is so kool, because you can aim for whatever kinky type of relationship you desire.
I would personally not put a lot of time/effort into seeking a M sub/slave for a relationship were it not for the sex, lol... I have met men who say (as you do) that as my slave they should not be permitted to touch me; I of course am fairly choosy as to what my slave should be like, but the one thing I am certain he will be as a slave, is obedient, including in putting out when I want him to.

quote:

I prefer males whom are there to serve even when they don't have a hard on or "feeling" submissive at the moment.

On that I agree wholeheartedly agree, but disagree having him in chastity is what makes him submit. M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 4/23/2006 11:00:06 PM >

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/24/2006 8:11:30 AM

crouchingtigress

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If I was in a LTR with a submissive life-partner, my views on this would shift dramatically, but as that I keep primarily servants, pony's and whipping boys I dont see the need, nor the usefulness of adding sex to the equation.

As to long term enforced chastity, never tried it, I use release as a reward because more often then not, I am so proud of them and they have touched me so deeply that I want to give them the thing they desire most in the world...but I have read everything here, and some great points were made of perspectives I never thought of before.

Mind if I ask about milking? How is it done? who does it? Is it a reward or on a schedule?

As to the things I think cheapen a relationship I would say:

~Lackluster performance and response...if you are not having fun in your role, that sucks for me.

~Excuses and rationalizations as to why a boy cant do something...yes i know that there are times when something cant be done, but its the way the information is delivered to me that determines if the boy really tried or just dismissed it as too hard.

~Pushiness or whinyness if a boy has a complaint , I prefer them to speak to me directly, with deference of course, but directly and then when it is settled drop it.

< Message edited by crouchingtigress -- 4/24/2006 8:25:51 AM >

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/24/2006 11:31:36 AM

EbonyFtshGoddess

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quote:

I would personally not put a lot of time/effort into seeking a M sub/slave for a relationship were it not for the sex, lol... I have met men who say (as you do) that as my slave they should not be permitted to touch me; I of course am fairly choosy as to what my slave should be like, but the one thing I am certain he will be as a slave, is obedient, including in putting out when I want him to.

i never say that mistresses shouldn't have sexual relations with their submissives. earlier i realize that some mistresses do view their slaves as partners or lovers. i don't. they're slaves and i happen to prefer dominant lovers. but i can entirely respect that some do view their interaction with their submissives as more sensual. i'm not an extremely sensual domme. i'm not an ice queen, but they aren't lovers for me. i have done it in the past when i see a slave with an exceptional uncut cock. it has happened and i don't believe in denying myself any of life's pleasures..haha.. but typically i go for Bull males sexually yet i can respect those who do.. i never feel that people should say your slaves SHOULDNT touch you sexually.. i just say that's not how i am a dominant personally.

quote:

quote:

I prefer males whom are there to serve even when they don't have a hard on or "feeling" submissive at the moment.
On that I agree wholeheartedly agree, but disagree having him in chastity is what makes him submit.

i dont think having them in chastity is what makes them submit per se. they are submitting because they want to be there. the chastity just reminds them that they no longer belong to themselves and that i have control over every single aspect of his life.. even his cock. and that he will rarely be able to touch his most touched part again without feeling a metal belt and thinking about the woman that has the key around her neck. i employ chastity as part of emasculation, a sign of his owned status, to keep him chaste, to quell masturbation.. and so they feel tortured while they know i'm out fucking and having a good ole time while they're being awakened at night with cramping cocks and ill fated, short lived semi hardons.

but i don't do it to make them submit, they do that out of their own free will.. just ONCE you submit.. that is one of my terms.

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/24/2006 11:43:50 AM

EbonyFtshGoddess

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crouchingtigress

quote:

Mind if I ask about milking? How is it done? who does it? Is it a reward or on a schedule?

milking is when you use a prostate massage (via anally but some guys when they're full you can rub their prostate from at the base of their balls and still milk them.. its just harder).. this causes the expelling of semen. since the rhythmic massage of the prostate passes the contractions usually associated with an orgasm there is no explosive release.. it's more like.. the semen just dribbles out. it will be the same amount as a regular ejaculation (oftentimes more) just dribbly instead of like shooting out. also he doesn't have to be hard for this. they have toys you can use but i prefer my finger and a latex glove.

release is usually scheduled every 3 weeks after their first initial term of chastity which used to be 90 days. now i shortened it to 60 days because too many were having wetdreams. 60 seems to be working for us better now. after their first 60 days they come to me or i'll schedule my travel to be near them and they will get their first milking. it's funny, they are expecting this big honkin first "after chastity" orgasm..lol but i just milk them then lock them up again.. after that i usually release them every 3 - 4 weeks depending if we're playing chastity lottery or not. if it's a chastity lottery month then depending on what colour bead i randomly select determines whether or not he gets out that month.

if someone does something nice for me.. or sweet.. or impresses me in some other way.. then i may send them their key (even if they lost the chastity lottery that month) and a new open lock. if he can't travel for work or something at the moment i'll watch him take it off on cam using the key to the old lock, masturbate, clean up, then place the new lock on. since i mail the new lock already opened i am the only one that has the new key. the old key i just mailed won't work on it.

some slaves only want to be released in my presence. they have to see me at least once every 2 months for their milking. these slaves never have forcible orgasms. i measure the amount of semen i collect from them and keep record in their milk chart. that way i can tell by the amount of semen i collect in the end of those 2 months whether they've had a wet dream or other unsanctioned release. these are also my most faithful, loyal, obedient, dependable, supple, devoted, chaste slaves.

< Message edited by EbonyFtshGoddess -- 4/24/2006 11:49:31 AM >

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/24/2006 3:03:26 PM

crouchingtigress

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Incredible informative and mind blowing as usual, EbonyftshGoddess! The key and lock thing is brilliant.

Chastity lottery? How many particiapate?

Thanks for explaining.

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RE: Sex & Submission & Chastity - 4/25/2006 2:04:22 AM

EbonyFtshGoddess

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i'll email you the details of the lottery.. and only one particpates..

if it's a lottery month i choose various glass coloured beads.

red means no orgasm that time not matter WHAT. there are more clear glass beads and clear means nothing.. they have to wait until the next day i draw..

if they get a blue bead.. that means blue balls for the next duration. which is 3 weeks

a green bead means i take out 3 blue beads or they opt for 1 red one being taken out.

the beads are counted based on how often i plan on taking them out. there are a certain numbers of beads.. i'll email you about it.

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