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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 10:07:50 AM   
atursvcMaam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

ahhh, but if it is all inevitable consequence, how does one explain the uniqueness of Steven Hawkings.


Answer your own question, youre the one who cliams its an invevitable consequence, not me.


Did you read the article? 1st paragraph.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 10:09:20 AM   
Lordandmaster


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Status: offline 		Lam doesn't think God created the universe either, but nobody bothered to make a Collarme thread about that.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 10:32:14 AM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam
Do you shadow box a lot.  It amazes me how strongly my Atheist acquaintaces battle something that, in their mind, does not exist.

If atheists "battle" against anything it's the unjustified beliefs of theists and the effects those beliefs have on us all. Both of which clearly exist.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 10:39:20 AM   
ykeleven


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Status: offline 		God is big enough, and old enough to take care of himself. If he exists, I doubt he wants us to kill each other over him. What is it that we have that he doesn't already have? If he wants or needs something from us, than he is not complete. Therefore, if God exists, we are all part of God.

Nothing cannot become something, but there are infinite varieties of nothing. 0 is 0. 1-1 is also 0. You have 1 and -1 which becomes 0. 3 - 2 - 1 = 0. You have 3 of one thing, -2 of another, and -1 of another. Again, they all add up to 0.

Edward Witten is who most physists consider heir apparent to Einstein. The person who brought back the string theory in the 90s and brought the 11th dimension, and parellel universes back. As admirable as Dr Hawkings is, you are probably better served by studying Dr Witten's work.


< Message edited by ykeleven -- 9/5/2010 10:42:40 AM >

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 11:03:12 AM   
GotSteel


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ORIGINAL: kdsub
Yes my statement is silly but so is his no matter how much of a genius he is…see my point?

No, your use of straw-men, arguments from ignorance, assertions and leaps in your reasoning obscure any valid point that you might have.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 11:18:24 AM   
cuckoldmepls


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Status: offline 		This guy has about as much credibility as Alan Greenspan does now. He's living off his past accomplishments, and now he can say anything, and the news media automatically takes it as the gospel. He's full of crap.

Think about it. He says that the universe created itself out of nothing. I understand he has a bone to pick with God since he has been imprisoned in his own body, but arrogance is not going to win him any points with the big man upstairs.


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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 12:00:41 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

So who created God, or is that another inevitable consequence?


Actually thats one of the main problems believers face. Since there is no god, its a non-question for atheists.


Do you shadow box a lot.  It amazes me how strongly my Atheist acquaintaces battle something that, in their mind, does not exist.


It amazes me that you dont understand that they are "battling" beliefs that DO exist.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 12:06:12 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

He says that the universe created itself out of nothing.




That is the generally accepted theory in cosmology, not just his theory.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 12:25:22 PM   
MstrPBK


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Status: offline 		My own personal biased opinion presented here:

1) Science has demonstrated that the universe itself is moving.
2) Science has demonstrated that the universe is cooling down.

This suggests to me the following images::

A) The universe is tangible matter within another existence or science experiment
B) Either the outer existence has cooled down or the Bunsen burner has been turned off.
C) Life here is an accident of another's blood contaminating this universe.

and probably the most radical theory I have is that:
D) we are but one of 60 some possible variants of life with the bountiful of universes that exist.

Along another parallel issue and as for Professor Steven Hawkin's: he postulates that Black Holes evaporate into neutrally charged neutrons, elections, and protons of atomic matter. Woujdn't this suggest a 6th form of Matter besides: BEC, Solid, Liquid; Gas, and Plasma matter forms?

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 2:02:57 PM   
willbeurdaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrPBK

My own personal biased opinion presented here:

1) Science has demonstrated that the universe itself is moving.
2) Science has demonstrated that the universe is cooling down.

This suggests to me the following images::

A) The universe is tangible matter within another existence or science experiment
B) Either the outer existence has cooled down or the Bunsen burner has been turned off.
C) Life here is an accident of another's blood contaminating this universe.

and probably the most radical theory I have is that:
D) we are but one of 60 some possible variants of life with the bountiful of universes that exist.

Along another parallel issue and as for Professor Steven Hawkin's: he postulates that Black Holes evaporate into neutrally charged neutrons, elections, and protons of atomic matter. Woujdn't this suggest a 6th form of Matter besides: BEC, Solid, Liquid; Gas, and Plasma matter forms?

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA



The universe heating up would suggest it is within another existence, cooling down doesnt. Heat is just motion, and everything must slow down unless its in a non-existent frictionless environment or energy is supplied from outside the system.

And its Stephen Hawking, not Steven Hawkins.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 2:51:10 PM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		Sooo you are another super genius...do you know how to tune your car...be a brain surgeon...and know enough to judge if he is correct?

If not then why are you opening your mouth making a judgment you are not qualified to make?

Now tell me, super genius, how spontaneous creation of all things is any different then intelligent design?

It seems to me in his opinion he is assuming intelligence develops over time from the physical universe that was spontaneously created from nothingness. Why could not intelligence come before the physical universe. Then the universe we live in today could have been created with an intelligent design…therefore a God if you like. Why is one more likely than the other? Love for you, in all your wisdom, to tell me why intelligent design is any less likely than spontaneous creation?

If you can’t then you are talking out your ass.



< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/5/2010 2:53:38 PM >

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 2:57:24 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Yes my statement is silly but so is his no matter how much of a genius he is…see my point?

No, your use of straw-men, arguments from ignorance, assertions and leaps in your reasoning obscure any valid point that you might have.



See post above...sorry i am talking over your head... I'll try to dumb it down for you

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 3:04:24 PM   
Icarys


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Status: offline 		On a comparison scale we're not even born yet when it comes to understanding the universe and the how's and why it was created. How someone could think they have that figured out is beyond me as much as it is beyond anyone. We may have hints and faith of belief but that's about it.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 3:20:19 PM   
atursvcMaam


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Status: offline 		you are all, of course, right.  i am a solipsist which allows you all to be right each in your own universe.  i prefer to believe in God, and therefore an afterlife, as laying for many years in a wooden box under the ground does not appeal to me as a way to spend eternity.  However, as a solipsist i am quite secure in the belief that when i cease to exist, in whatever plane, so do you all. 

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 4:08:07 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
See post above...sorry i am talking over your head... I'll try to dumb it down for you

Please do, in particular if you would start from a position he's actually taken instead of one you've made up it would really help.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 4:24:21 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
See post above...sorry i am talking over your head... I'll try to dumb it down for you

Please do, in particular if you would start from a position he's actually taken instead of one you've made up it would really help.


Should I start with reading comprehension...or crayons?

But really why should we spend time trying to insult each other.. I asked, I think, a valid question…how is spontaneous creation any less fantastic or different then intelligent design?

AND why could not intelligence develop in the unknown before the existence of anything? Why would this be any less likely than the potential universe before spontaneous creation? If one can potentially exist why not the other?


Butch

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 5:16:10 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I asked, I think, a valid question…how is spontaneous creation any less fantastic or different then intelligent design?

Well, if you want Stephen Hawkings actual answer to that question perhaps you should read his book. But assuming his position is given without supporting science and is just an opinion is why I agree that your statement is silly.

P.S. I would actually enjoy it if you used crayons.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 5:20:57 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls

This guy has about as much credibility as Alan Greenspan does now. He's living off his past accomplishments, and now he can say anything, and the news media automatically takes it as the gospel. He's full of crap.

Think about it. He says that the universe created itself out of nothing. I understand he has a bone to pick with God since he has been imprisoned in his own body, but arrogance is not going to win him any points with the big man upstairs.



Where did God come from?

By your logic the Creator could not exist without a creator.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 5:38:34 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: atursvcMaam

So who created God, or is that another inevitable consequence?


Actually thats one of the main problems believers face. Since there is no god, its a non-question for atheists.


Do you shadow box a lot.  It amazes me how strongly my Atheist acquaintaces battle something that, in their mind, does not exist.


It would seem your question is an argument against your own position.

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RE: Hawking: God Did Not Create Universe - 9/5/2010 5:47:14 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckoldmepls
Think about it.


I have and your use of personal attacks against Dr. Hawking instead of an argument to support your position isn't exactly changing my mind.

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