is it possible

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fyreredsub -> is it possible (4/22/2006 3:15:49 PM)
for a dom/master to fail a sub/slave? Greetings all, this girl was speaking to someone this morning about something that she had happen to her and this thought came to this girls mind while listening.... under what circumstances would one say this can happen? or have you had it happen? is there anything that can be done about it?without it being considered topping from the bottom or the sub being a princess brat or seen as too needy or not submissive enough???? fyi, this one had it happen in the past with a former but was curious as to what others thoughts and perspectives may be on this phenomina. it was lies on the part of the dom and it broke trust. that is not what the person was venting about this morning,lol. thank you for your time wishing you well

slavejali -> RE: is it possible (4/22/2006 3:27:33 PM)
I think a Master could fail a slave if he is a lazy dominant, which kinda makes him just lazy and not really a dominant at all. I think a Master could fail a slave if he wasnt totally comfortable with his dominance. That's all I can think of at the moment.

slaveofdarkhold -> RE: is it possible (4/22/2006 3:31:44 PM)
Yes of course it is possible. A D/s relationship is a delicate balance with a lot of emotions involved and potentially physical danger too for those who also take part in bondage and S&M. In my opinion a Master fails his slave if he hurts them emotionally, or allows them to be hurt emotionally or physically. In this case I don't mean pain play, I mean serious injury or similar. Accidents happen and even the best dom can sometimes make a bad judgement or slip of the hand and unintentionally put the sub in a bad situation. This is the risk the submissive takes by making themself vulnerable to another person. I don't consider this in itself failure. Failure comes when the Master cannot or will not accept his own mistake and do whatever he can to make things right for the sub, or else when he does this on purpose.

Tikkiee -> RE: is it possible (4/22/2006 3:33:19 PM)
I have found, in my short time of life, that failure, in one form or another, will happen . Either YOU will fail at something, or someone else will fail you. What I am finding confusing, in regards to your question, is that you have FAILED to give adequate information so that an informative answer could be given. [:)] There are many differnt ways that a person can fail another; some are more unforgivable than others. There have been times that Chris has not been there for me when I needed him the most; and yet, I do not look on it as a failure on his part. Nor do I look at it as a failure on my part ( to communicate this need ). It was just a circumstantial happening.

mystiquenz -> RE: is it possible (4/22/2006 3:36:11 PM)
maybe, it is a situation where communication has not been clear from the outset. maybe there was an expectation or expections from the submissive, and that was not the intention from the Dominant. Does that mean that the Dominant has failed? No, it just means, that communication was not delivered well, either by the submissive or by the Dominant. It does not mean that any one has failed. that's all i can think of, it's pretty difficult to contribute when the facts have not been provided ... ~mystique~

fyreredsub -> RE: is it possible (4/22/2006 3:48:47 PM)
this girl just wondering if it is possible without going into someones personal details for example a Dom that says one thing yet does another. if this was to cause emotional pain on the part of the sub and the Dom is well aware the emotional pain is occurring yet lets the sub flounder about. does that work for a situation?[&:] thanks jali and slaveofdarkhold for some situations[:)] when this may occur. the reasoning behind this was more in an attempt to find a solution for the sub (and others experiences with something similiar and how it was resolved)without any misconstruing to the Dom that she was wantingto leave the relationship. just wishing for ideas for her without it being seen as 'topping from the bottom' or as 'not submissive' enough or her being too needy. if this makes sense. this one guesses it boils down to communication but that doesn't seem to be working so well for her as she feels like she is a pain in the butt in trying to express herself and is starting to feel neglected and thinks the dom just doesn't care about her emotional well being or her at all.they dont see each other often. best translation this one can give to the situation. this girl is going to email her the thread with some answers/solutions/experiences.

BitaTruble -> RE: is it possible (4/22/2006 6:02:35 PM)
If a Master is inconsistant, failure is pretty much assured. Celeste

murmur -> RE: is it possible (4/22/2006 6:39:19 PM)
for example a Dom that says one thing yet does another. Failing is sure to happen. That situation only means that the Dom is either testing the sub (a very bad way to do so) or unsure of himself about what he wants out of it. But in either situation, he can be sure to lose the sub's confidence cause he'll make him/her unsure and doubtful about his control and assurance about himself. if this was to cause emotional pain on the part of the sub and the Dom is well aware the emotional pain is occurring yet lets the sub flounder about. Without going into details huh? well...let's say that Dom expected me to go along with his orders only by my trust with him and at the time, that was not what i needed. I needed a straight and clear road to follow without any emotionnal roller-coaster and he didnt allowed me that right to be sure about him and about what i wanted. I tried to question him, but he wouldnt allow me the pleasure of his answers...as he claimed to be a very secretive dom.... Good Dominants arent secretive. They are upfront about what and who they are and are not afraid to say what they want when they feel it is right to express it so. does that work for a situation?[&:] of course not....but i guess it was a rhetoric question [:)] the reasoning behind this was more in an attempt to find a solution for the sub (and others experiences with something similiar and how it was resolved)without any misconstruing to the Dom that she was wantingto leave the relationship. --- does she want* to leave the relationship? I am sorry, maybe cause i'm french...but i dont quite understand ....sorry again...* just wishing for ideas for her without it being seen as 'topping from the bottom' or as 'not submissive' enough or her being too needy. if this makes sense. The way it was resolved for me...well, i wasnt feeling well in that relationship, i cared about him...but i had to think for myself too, what i wanted out of it and what he could give me. I felt as if i was giving him more then he was giving me and that's not healthy in any kind of relationship. this one guesses it boils down to communication but that doesn't seem to be working so well for her as she feels like she is a pain in the butt in trying to express herself (not a good sign) and is starting to feel neglected (an even less good sign) and thinks the dom just doesn't care about her emotional well being or her at all.they dont see each other often(i followed my guts about that one...if she thinks that he do not care about her...she must only trust herself and her instincts and talk with him. Wanting to clear out a situation where one isnt feeling comfortable isnt what i call being needy.) I hope it helped a bit...

SirandMistress -> RE: is it possible (4/22/2006 6:40:39 PM)
Yes i know it is possible for a Dom to fail a sub, My first Dom did. He was good in the begining and taught Me right from wrong but then he took it a bit to far and became an abusive person, not in a good way, he broke bones and knocked Me unconcious and to Me that is MOST DEFFINATELY NOT a good Dom. I am sure no one will disagree with that one. Mistress Celest

fyreredsub -> RE: is it possible (4/22/2006 6:47:30 PM)
this one thanks ya'll for the answers and help. it seems the situation was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties.this girl just hopes the dom is better to the sub and they both find the happiness they seek. this girl only likes roller coasters at the amusement parksmiles. not even going to bother to send the thread its not needed now,lol.

starymists -> RE: is it possible (4/22/2006 7:07:37 PM)
Is it possible for a Dominant to fail a submissive or a Master to fail a slave? Sure. First of all, none of us are perfect. For myself, I tend to look to see if it is an intentional or unintentional failure. Webster defines failure as follows: 1 a : omission of occurrence or performance; specifically : a failing to perform a duty or expected action b : a state of inability to perform a normal function c : a fracturing or giving way under stress <structural failure> 2 a : lack of success 3 a : a falling short b : DETERIORATION, DECAY For the first definition, an omission, failing to perform a duty or expected action. Why didn't he complete what he said he was going to do? Did something happen outside of his control? Like, for instance, promising that he was going to call at a certain time but then ended up having to work? Or is it promising to do something and not caring enough to get it done? like, for instance, promising he was going to call at a certain time, and then getting caught up in a tv show and just blowing off the comitment? Or is it a miscommunication. For instance, him promising to call sometime this evening, and her assuming she knew what time he would be calling, only to get hurt when he didnt call at the expected time? The second definition, promising to do something he knew he couldn't complete. Promising to come over knowing the car was broke, but assuming he would have another way to get there, which is unintentional. Promising to be there knowing the car was broke and not bothering to even try to find another way to get there, which is intentional. Or I'll get there if I can being taken as a guarantee that he will be there followed by disappointment when he doesn't show, which is expectation management and communication. The last definition...falling short and deteroriation, from where I stand, speaks to the second part of what you asked about...knowing that hurt is being caused and doing nothing to address that hurt. In some cases, this could be an attempt to teach the submissive something specific. In other cases, it could be a lack of concern for her well being. And it could be that he is concerned, and trying to find ways of addressing the problem, but not wanting to bring her the situation until he has a solution. In all three cases, there is unintentional, intentional and other things like lack of communication. Only the Dominant and submissive involved can really begin to understand what is happening and why. For myself, I have a three strike rule that I live by. I will bring an issue to the table for discussion exactly three times. And the third time, I will say, 'I don't want to nag you. This is where I am at and this is the last time I bring this issue to the table unless you bring it up first.' If the situation still doesn't change, I have two choices...I can learn to accept things as they stand or I can choose to get out of the relationship and find something that fits me better. And those decisions, for me, take a while to find the answers too sometimes. If it's something I need to remain happy in the relationship, I get out because I can't change what I need like air and water is to survival. If it is something I would like, or something that I just want, then I have to decide how important it is to me to have that aspect present in a relationship. As my Dominant can tell you, consistency is something I need. My Dominant, in understanding that I really get nuts around inconsistency, is very careful to only promise that which he is sure he can provide. And still, on occasion, life happens. But his not doing something is rare. If he's not absolutely sure, he'll say, no promises, but I'll try. As far as being accused from topping from the bottom, not being submissive enough or being too needy...those are all relative terms. They are relative to the needs of the Dominant who is involved. What is needy to one is an acceptable level of submission to another. So those kind of comments should be taken with a grain of salt.

ownedgirlie -> RE: is it possible (4/22/2006 7:14:28 PM)
Yes. Examples: He can fail her if he breaches trust. He can fail her if he leads her down a path that is detrimental to her (this can often happen unintentionally, if he doesn't know what he is doing....but thinks he does). He can fail her if he sets goals too high for her to meet, thus making her feel like a failure. He can fail her if he brings her down, rather than elevates her to be her best.

Fawne -> RE: is it possible (4/24/2006 1:21:18 AM)
fyreredsub said: is it possible for a dom/master to fail a sub/slave? Yeah. Anyone can "fail", make mistakes, not be up to an obligation, etc.. I hate that word "fail". Even those who are worshipped are flesh and blood and imperfect creatures on this planet: fallable - not dieties. Sigh. No offense, and best to you and all!

masterdeltafire -> RE: is it possible (4/24/2006 2:21:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Yes. Examples: He can fail her if he breaches trust. He can fail her if he leads her down a path that is detrimental to her (this can often happen unintentionally, if he doesn't know what he is doing....but thinks he does). He can fail her if he sets goals too high for her to meet, thus making her feel like a failure. He can fail her if he brings her down, rather than elevates her to be her best. Not much more to add here, but I also consider one who cannot respect hard limits as a failure. A good example of this came from my days long ago when I was a slave. One very hard limit with my Domme at the time was no other males, because of my being very straight and totally against the idea. The agreement lasted for many months while I learned the Lifestyle until she took another male slave without discussing it with me, thus breaking the hard limit set. Needless to say, the collar was thrown quite literally at her and I made the decision that day to move to Dom. I will not go into details on how a natural leader went to a shattered young kid at age 18, because they are still very painful to deal with especially this time of year. In a nutshell, when you lose the girl you love and your soulmate on your cousin's wedding day.. it shatters one very deeply more than words can express.. It took losing my soulmate, my Beloved girl to complications from a heart operation to do it. One never expects to see your mate being laid to rest, dead at age 17. The time slave both taught me the Lifestyle and also gave me the time needed to get my affairs in order. It also made me a stronger person as a whole for surviving my senior year as bad as it was. Most of my friends and close teachers did not think I would be able to pull through ( I lost two relatives, two close teachers, my soulmate and andother close friend in the span of 10 months). I look back stiill looking for the young 18 year old and the innocence and the last teen years thatdied with my soulmate. I guess I grew up too quick. Moving to Dom was always planned.. I still needed a little more time to get my head totally on straight. It wasn't the failure that worried me, my biggest failure even 15 years later is the thought of seeing another girl laid to rest before her time and being widowed a second time. No matter how hard I have tried to shake that thought, and move on totally, it is always there.No matter how much i want to marry and settle down, letting one that close to the deepest areas of my heart only one girl has ever occupied i have not been able to do. I do not see it totally as a failure. But even if I never marry, when I look back, i know that my career as a Mentor was very sucessful, a little bittersweet and hollow on the last part, but a success none the less.

Areflectionofyou -> RE: is it possible (4/24/2006 3:21:09 AM)
yes a Master can fail his sub/slave on one or many levels. Trust, lies, inconsistancy, not walking the walk he preaches.

Wulfchyld -> RE: is it possible (4/24/2006 4:04:59 AM)
Yet again I am going to toss myself out here and hope no one takes offence. In my opinion the Dom sets the standard for the relationship. I think it is fair to be a “do as I do” relationship within your limits. If your Dom is deceptive he/she is inviting deception, if he/she is lazy they invite laziness, and so on. If he is abusive take up sewing and one magical morning he/she can wake up sewn into a sheet with you grinning over them with the broom ready to clean their clock. If you want a mindless plaything you can buy one and inflate it. What is the point of not challenging your sub/slave. To push them to be more, learn more and rise above where they think they are to a level the did not, or could not, see themselves achieving. If I were to name names, Bitatruble tops the list of impressive subs. Do we blame her or her Dom/Master? Being a Dom my proclivities would be her Master/Dom has done an excellent job and we should learn through his example. Opinions may very as to whom bears the responsibility for such a dynamic individual as BitaTruble, yet if we foster the idea of grooming our sub/slave into such an impressive person as BitaTruble we can flood the lifestyle, as well as the vanilla world, with most impressive people. As Doms we need to exert the most control over ourselves. Everyday we need to learn and grow and push the threshold of human potential and let our sub/slaves follow suite with kindness, compassion, and careful consideration. I think if the sub/slaves here liked to be called bitch to their faces they would have stayed in their vanilla worlds. I like to think that we, D/s, are a cut above the status quo. Not because of our kink but for our pursuits in mastering our minds, our emotions, and our very souls. I rather fancy the idea that my ability to communicate, even over extremely emotional issues, sets me apart from the vanilla world. In this lifestyle I can look her in the eye and say, “hey baby, lets cover ourselves in green jello and go run around the yard playing Viking and plunder” and know she isn’t calling Oprah or Dr. Phil first thing in the morning. The worst she may do is say you wear the jello and I’ll be the plunder. With the dynamic of such open honesty without rejection, or worse, is in front of you how could you ever not put her so high on a pedestal. You can put her so high you cant even see her, but you can always know that when she looks up, all she sees is you. Loki

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: is it possible (4/24/2006 5:59:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slavejali I think a Master could fail a slave if he is a lazy dominant, which kinda makes him just lazy and not really a dominant at all. Why? A dominant just means dominant. There are asshole doms and lazy doms and stupid doms. Doesn't mean they aren't a dominant, just that they have personality flaws. quote: I think a Master could fail a slave if he wasnt totally comfortable with his dominance. That's all I can think of at the moment. I don't see discomfort as failure- some of the greatest masters around admit to being uncomfortable at times and going through difficult periods of understanding. I think failure is certainly possible, if the master has set up certain expectations and failed to meet them. The recourse is simple- accept it, discuss it openly, or end it.

slavejali -> RE: is it possible (4/24/2006 6:18:37 AM)
quote: Original Quote: LuckyAlbatross I don't see discomfort as failure- some of the greatest masters around admit to being uncomfortable at times and going through difficult periods of understanding. Well I guess I was meaning, if someone isnt totally comfortable in their role as dominant its a bit hard to be dominant and in that case they would fail their slave just in the respect that the roles would become all topsy turvy and inside out. quote: Original Quote: LuckyAlbatross Why? A dominant just means dominant. There are asshole doms and lazy doms and stupid doms. Doesn't mean they aren't a dominant, just that they have personality flaws. I'll concede that one, I've said that myself.

littleone35 -> RE: is it possible (4/24/2006 8:54:38 AM)
I don't know about his my first Dom died un expectly is that considierd failure? Matt's littleone

Lashra -> RE: is it possible (4/24/2006 9:03:36 AM)
Yes example the Dom who takes on a slave (who doesn't work) when he can't even support himself at his $13/hr job. This same Dom also had no medical/dental/life insurance so Goddess forbid if one of them were to get sick who would pay what could possibly be gigiantic medical expenses? I think alot of Dom's need to really think and be sure they can afford a live in slave, particulary one that doesn't work, this slave will be dependent upon you for everything and you dang well had better be able to provide it otherwise you are a FAILURE as a Dom IMO. Also there are Doms who don't give their subs/slaves what they need mentally/phyiscally if this isnt happening the sub/slave needs to move onto greener pastures. Life is too short to be unhappy. ~Lashra

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