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RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/10/2010 6:41:32 PM   
LadyNTrainer


Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
I meant no offense in using the honorific "Mistress" as it is used in BDSM and Gorean communities for a dominant woman.


I am not Gorean, and while I respect everyone's right to choose the lifestyle they prefer, Gorean dynamics and honorifics do not and should not apply to people outside that community.  Please feel free to do your thing with your consenting partners, but please respect that other people do it very differently and may not appreciate your applying Gorean conventions to them.

In the greater pansexual BDSM community, it is not rare for dominant women to consider the word "mistress" to be demeaning or annoying.  In the strictly het and mostly online-based community that doesn't intermingle much with the genderqueer or GLBT crowd and has no ties to the leather community or its history, it is a common default.   It's probably a good idea to know who you're talking to before you slap a cultural convention on them; it might not be applicable, and it might mean something entirely different where they come from.

quote:

For sure, your perception of the honorific "Mistress" does not match that held generally in the BDSM or Gorean communities. That definition is included below for your future reference.


Have no idea what Goreans do, and don't care much.  Again, I think your idea of the BDSM community is a bit skewed and does not include the leather community nor the greater GLBT/pansexual community.


quote:

I suppose I could simply always use the term "master" to stay out of trouble but this is also a mine field with a woman who takes offense with the normally masculine honorific.


Anything wrong with just using people's names until or unless it becomes appropriate to use a particular title for them? 

quote:

p.s. Wait, wait...maybe "goddess" would work from now on?


You're missing the point.  It's rather presumptuous to label other people with special titles that they may or may not use or appreciate.  Making up titles to fit other people, without asking them first, is not actually very polite at all. If you wish to extend courtesy to someone who is outside your Gorean culture and does not necessarily fit into Gorean categories, I would suggest using normal Earthling manners.  Addressing people by their names works fine, and so does asking someone individually how they identify and what they would prefer to be called.

My screen name has all the hints you need.  Folks can call me Lady, or Trainer, or N, or LNT, or LadyNTrainer.  I don't really give a hoot which, because all of those things are a variant of using the name I choose to present with.  Is the general idea of what I'm getting at becoming clearer?  You show respect by actually respecting people and their choices, not by forcing them into a pigeonhole that you make up for them.

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 9/10/2010 6:42:47 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 121
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/10/2010 6:51:17 PM   
poise


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Any wonderfully happy single submissives in the house?

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RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/10/2010 7:06:48 PM   
gungadin09


Posts: 3232
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Sounding off.

pam

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Profile   Post #: 123
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/11/2010 7:36:22 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

Yesssss! The ability to romance women via hummus and baba ganoush strikes again! 



Dammit all to hell! Now I have to stop at the grocer today and get stuff to make hummus. I've never had baba ganoush so no addiction there.

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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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Profile   Post #: 124
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/11/2010 10:02:14 AM   
wandersalone


Posts: 4666
Joined: 11/21/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

As for me, since I don't cook, I am quick to reply what type of restaurants I want to go to. :)


sorry quick hijack... Red I tend to avoid cooking where possible and Master was over on Friday night and asked me "so what are you going to not cook for me tonight?" referring to what was I going to order  


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Profile   Post #: 125
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/12/2010 9:23:38 AM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
The mistress’s point is unclear to me.


This is an odd way to communicate, but I assume you meant me.  I do not  identify as a mistress of any sort, as I am neither a kept woman nor dating a married man.  I don't personally consider it to be an appropriate title for a female dominant due to its negative connotations which are far more submissive than dominant in nature.

My point was that gender assumptions - like your assuming that I fall into the "Mistress" category - are inherently flawed, even if they might be correct some of the time.  There are quite a number of gay male Masters, and a fair number of biological females, heterosexual and otherwise, who identify as Masters.  So if you are actually asking for the input of heterosexual males who identify as Masters, it is a good idea to specify. 

Not that you can limit who gets to post to a thread on CM based on your personal preferences, but it still helps if you make it clear which demographic you're asking. 



I meant no offense in using the honorific "Mistress" as it is used in BDSM and Gorean communities for a dominant woman. Frankly, it would be rare to use the masculine honorific "Master" for a woman unless one is addressing BDSM doms without regard to gender, as in a paper or book text. Perhaps you intended this. Perhaps not. You did say this which puzzles me:
quote:

I don't personally consider it to be an appropriate title for a female dominant due to its negative connotations which are far more submissive than dominant in nature.
For sure, your perception of the honorific "Mistress" does not match that held generally in the BDSM or Gorean communities. That definition is included below for your future reference.

I suppose I could simply always use the term "master" to stay out of trouble but this is also a mine field with a woman who takes offense with the normally masculine honorific. Here is something I am sure is always true: one cannot satisfy everyone in the online world of CM and so I do not try.

Here is the definition from Wickipedia references seaching on the term Master and BDSM and how it is generally used:

The term "Master" can be gender-independent but is mostly used only in reference to males. There is otherwise no male-specific equivalent. The female equivalent is "Mistress".

A dominatrix (plural dominatrices or dominatrixes) or mistress is a woman who takes the dominant role in bondage and discipline, dominance and submission or BDSM.



p.s. Wait, wait...maybe "goddess" would work from now on?

I'm going to save Myself some time and reprint a partial reply regarding a very similar topic yesterday.
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I have said this multiple times when this discussion has entered this particular forum before.  I am a person who practices the leather lifestyle.  Unlike the Gorean lifestyle, the title of Master is not one held by men alone.  This is something that is a significant difference between us.  In the leather lifestyle, it is a title that can be held by a man or a woman.  In fact, our protocols have much more to do with experience in living this way.  Not whether someone has a penis or not, but rather how long they have successfully run their M/s dynamics in their authority.  Even amongst Master's themselves, that is what determines whether one is junior or senior to another.  Our protocols specifically state that gender is not to be a factor when showing courtesy and respect for each other.

There may not be as many leather people on these boards as there once were.  That does not make our lifestyle any more or less valid than anyone else's.  I probably hold higher requirements for Myself in the title than a heck of a lot of people on these boards do. 

I was granted My Master's Cap by the leather community in April of 2008 with My husband and My side and My boy at My feet.  It wasn't something that I asked for and truthfully, most people who receive one don't think it is something they deserve.  My leather family and community thought that I did.  I'm not going to disrespect their opinion for some random message board.


Should an OP choose to ask for male opinions alone, that would be her right.  Not that it is a requirement on this board for anyone to restrict their answers.  However, that was not what she asked for.  Perhaps, if she had, I may have indulged her, even in her display of unpleasantness.

The definition that you brought from Wiki is, in fact, incorrect by leather protocols.  Unlike Goreans, we do not use those titles without a qualifying name unless there is a M/s dynamic in place between the parties.  The only person on these boards, for example, who should be calling Me "Mistress" is My own slave. 

Not all of the BDSM community uses the same protocols and the titles may mean different things for different groups.  I have always found that it is better to learn about our differences, rather than to make mistakes in My own lack of knowledge.





Greetings LadyPact,

Your points are well made and appreciated.

Be well,
Arturas

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 126
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/12/2010 12:02:34 PM   
JstAnotherSub


Posts: 6174
Status: offline
~fr~

Now that I know I am single because I am fake, I will sleep so much better!  I thought it was because I am fat!

Collarme is so fukn educational!

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Profile   Post #: 127
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/13/2010 7:56:40 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zevar

No woman who identifies as submissive and or slave should be marginalized and talked about as though something is flawed about her due to her singleness.


QFT



Some of us have not always been single... fema could find herself so in the future, I wonder how she would feel about this topic if that happened?


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Profile   Post #: 128
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/15/2010 8:04:19 AM   
appleofdaddyseye


Posts: 1
Joined: 6/12/2010
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Has it occurred to anyone because its certainly occurred to me that the Op's Master might be loves young dream to her but we might consider him a total asswipe and wouldnt touch him if the propagation of the spieces relied on it? Hell, its easy to snag the dickheads, they are everywhere. Most submissives are inundated with offers, maybe she simply has lower standards and is blissfully unaware. I am so envious of girls with low standards.

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Profile   Post #: 129
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/15/2010 8:30:52 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

I
Refusal to give honest answers about preferences:
Moi Where would you like to go for dinner?
Her Oh, anywhere you like.
Moi What kind of cuisine do you like?
Her Oh, anyhthing.
Moi How about Chinese
Her I hate Chinese
Moi There is a new Mexican resturant I've heard about. How about that.
Her Oh, ick. I hate Mexican
Moi Then, let's just go to Cracker Barrel. Meat and two veg is always ok.
Her Oh they are so greasy.
Moi If you don't let me know your preferences you may well get a tastless cold hot dog from 7-11.
Her Oh, anything you like is fine with me.
.... Obviously not. She could not understand why I just took her home and left. I don't ask questions unless I want an answer. A person willing to leave you guessing over something as simple as restaurant choices is going to leave you guessing about a whole lot more important things.

Stefan


I don't see that as necessarily passive aggressive. I do see it as behavior left over from a previous poor relationship where she quickly learned that not to ask for things as she wouldn't get them. And therefore had to learn to work around the other person to get her needs met.

I went for two years without answering until he had first told me if he wanted a drink or not. I was afraid to pick the wrong place. Baggage left from a previous relationship. If he wanted a beer, I picked the Italian place uptown, if he didn't then I suggested a diner. Both of them geared based on what he liked so I couldn't answer wrong. Because by the end anything I answered to the ex was wrong simply because I chose it, and I got lambasted for it. I had learned  bitterly not to answer honestly and needed time for him to demonstrate that he also would not do that.

Thankfully he understood what was going on and was patient.


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Profile   Post #: 130
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/15/2010 11:10:44 AM   
PrimalConsonance


Posts: 463
Joined: 7/11/2009
From: Southern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: femasoslave

I'm curious....I have read many subby/slave women profiles on here and they have been single for a loooong while....in YOUR opinion....why do you think that is?

As a sub/slave myself, I have my own persnal opinion...that is that they have too many restrictions....in my opinion they should be and act sub/slave....which means that they should expect their limits to be expanded instead of being a definate.

When I was single and made up my mind that I definately 'needed' and 'wanted' a Master....I did NOT have a list of HARD limits.....i always believed that limits with a compassionate, caring and loving Master can always be expanded...its all a part of the leanring curve to be a sub/slave.

Maybe I was naive.....BUT maybe I wasnt....I have now the most wonderful, loving, adoring, romantic, passionate Master one could EVER wish for and truth be told......it didnt take long for me to find him!....His profile said it in spades to me.......since then....I have read many, many Dominant profiles.....and so many men are genuine here!.....it makes me wonder if the subby women really have no idea what they want....I am on the side of the Dominant men...not the subby women who if they were GENUINELY looking for a Dominant man...they would do ALMOST ANYTHING for them.
(i wont bother replying to sub women....i am not interested in your opinions)




I'm going to catch up with this thread, but wanted to quick comment.  There are many reasons that submissives may stay single for a long, some are good; and some not.  A common reason is those that become jaded by what they encounter online and in reality.  A few bad experiences will tend to bring the guard up on anybody.  So you throw in those with a lot of IM'img and mail or chat discussion from wannabees, creeps and HNGs (outdated term I suppose but works) with so much "submit NOW bitch 'cause I'm a Master!" behavior, and you can get really tired and weary very quick. 

Unbelievably high standards are sometimes the culprit as well.  I'm a firm believer that there is a near-perfect match for everyone out there whatever their kink.  But if you set up a set of criteria that sets only a 1% fill-rate and a 99% fail-rate, then unfortunately you'll find exactly 1% of a million is a very small fraction indeed (although you're making engineers and mathematicians very hot now with the odds and figures).  It's good to have standards, but it also good to understand that online communication can sometimes be limiting to people that are otherwise very nice and capable people who are passed over or just ignored where they could just be lacking in some online etiquette and are better face-to-face or on the phone since they've not entirely embraced the online experience as you have.  Besides, there are people that can't write a tantalizing introduction (both dominant and submissive individuals suffer from this problem), and are coming off the wrong way in trying to sum up their complete selves in a paragraph or two.  Can anyone of us accurately describe ourselves, our subtleties, our nature and humor truly in a few lines?  There is so much more to us all (hopefully) than that...  Using good judgment is one thing, but being judgmental with the subtlety of a meat cleaver is another. 

Motivators are another thing to look at.  Fear is a motivator, wants, needs, desires are some more.  People are motivated by power, greed, their manias and fetishes among other things.  What will motivate us to come online and look for others?  Friendship? Lovers? Maybe just here to find a husband or wife and are using this site not as a BDSMer exactly?  You might not be into BDSM at all.  You may just want to get laid (another great motivator).  If you are looking for a relationship, you may want to examine how you are basing this relationship before getting into something serious.  There are some here with VERY tight limitations and being in a relationship isn't one of those.  The occasional and casual player might have a wife or husband already, and may lie about it.  This will keep a lot of people away.  Got to know what you want. 

This also brings up something more touchy:  the emotional sacrifice and investment a submissive undergoes in involving his or herself when entering a BDSM relationship.  "They" say that a dominant doesn't put in emotionally or personally as does a submissive.  This is very true for the most part, and though there are dominants that will put in as much as a submissive in certain situations, the number of dominants to submissives on this point are skewed towards the submissive majority.  This can be very damaging to the submissive in the future when placing his or her faith, love, and involvement in a dominant thinking that this is it; and the dominant ends up abruptly ending the relationship for seemingly no good reason (and will not communicate to the submissive for whatever reason).  The dominant feels that they don't owe anyone an explanation (maybe it's not "domly" BS), and it is a part of their prerogative perhaps...total BS, and we could have a totally separate discussion on this phenomena.  But all this will keep some submissives from jumping right back in there to get stepped on again. 

Anyway so much for a quick response.  It's certainly not so cut and dry as to why some submissives stay looking for a long time, and there is more to this answer I'm sure than what I touched on here.  I am also sure that there are also some better and more in-depth responses than my attempt, and I'm looking forward to catching up to read them here.    





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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss


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Profile   Post #: 131
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/16/2010 12:28:04 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

~fr~

Now that I know I am single because I am fake, I will sleep so much better!  I thought it was because I am fat!

Collarme is so fukn educational!



Greetings JstAnotherSub,

Was this really directed at me in your reply to my userid? Are you expecting a return reply from me?

Well wishes,
Arturas

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Profile   Post #: 132
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/16/2010 1:03:35 PM   
xkittenx


Posts: 43
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline
In her quote, at the very top, she indicated it was a fast reply.

I picked up what the FR meant after being here for less than two weeks.

< Message edited by xkittenx -- 9/16/2010 1:05:27 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 133
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/16/2010 3:22:46 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xkittenx

In her quote, at the very top, she indicated it was a fast reply.

I picked up what the FR meant after being here for less than two weeks.


Greetings kitten.

I am mildly amused by your attempt to educate me especally since you are making some false assumptions in providing that education. Those assumptions are that I'm interested in your experience level here and that I am not looking for direct input from her.

Arturas

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Profile   Post #: 134
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/16/2010 3:33:47 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: appleofdaddyseye

Has it occurred to anyone because its certainly occurred to me that the Op's Master might be loves young dream to her but we might consider him a total asswipe and wouldnt touch him if the propagation of the spieces relied on it? Hell, its easy to snag the dickheads, they are everywhere. Most submissives are inundated with offers, maybe she simply has lower standards and is blissfully unaware. I am so envious of girls with low standards.


Snap....I love it. And I agree. :)

(in reply to appleofdaddyseye)
Profile   Post #: 135
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/16/2010 3:35:44 PM   
xkittenx


Posts: 43
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline
I'm removing my post.

Just because you showed your ass doesn't mean I have to show mine.

-----

Thanks, VC.

< Message edited by xkittenx -- 9/16/2010 3:54:37 PM >


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Profile   Post #: 136
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/16/2010 3:47:20 PM   
VaguelyCurious


Posts: 5264
Joined: 12/2/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

Greetings kitten.

I am mildly amused by your attempt to educate me especally since you are making some false assumptions in providing that education. Those assumptions are that I'm interested in your experience level here and that I am not looking for direct input from her.

Arturas



Well that was...rude.

You aren't exactly making friends on this thread, Arturas. You've shown total ignorance as to the leather definition of the word master, you've insisted on referring to LNT as Mistress against her wishes, and now you're being rude to kitten because she answered a question for you so that JAS didn't have to.

FR at the beginning of a post stands for Fast Response. JAS used that, so she doesn't owe you any 'direct input'. On these forums anyone can answer a question (just in case you were somehow still ignorant of that after all the subtext in this thread), and that includes any question you ask.


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Profile   Post #: 137
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/16/2010 4:03:36 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas
I meant no offense in using the honorific "Mistress" as it is used in BDSM and Gorean communities for a dominant woman.


I am not Gorean, and while I respect everyone's right to choose the lifestyle they prefer, Gorean dynamics and honorifics do not and should not apply to people outside that community.  Please feel free to do your thing with your consenting partners, but please respect that other people do it very differently and may not appreciate your applying Gorean conventions to them.

In the greater pansexual BDSM community, it is not rare for dominant women to consider the word "mistress" to be demeaning or annoying.  In the strictly het and mostly online-based community that doesn't intermingle much with the genderqueer or GLBT crowd and has no ties to the leather community or its history, it is a common default.   It's probably a good idea to know who you're talking to before you slap a cultural convention on them; it might not be applicable, and it might mean something entirely different where they come from.

quote:

For sure, your perception of the honorific "Mistress" does not match that held generally in the BDSM or Gorean communities. That definition is included below for your future reference.


Have no idea what Goreans do, and don't care much.  Again, I think your idea of the BDSM community is a bit skewed and does not include the leather community nor the greater GLBT/pansexual community.


quote:

I suppose I could simply always use the term "master" to stay out of trouble but this is also a mine field with a woman who takes offense with the normally masculine honorific.


Anything wrong with just using people's names until or unless it becomes appropriate to use a particular title for them? 

quote:

p.s. Wait, wait...maybe "goddess" would work from now on?


You're missing the point.  It's rather presumptuous to label other people with special titles that they may or may not use or appreciate.  Making up titles to fit other people, without asking them first, is not actually very polite at all. If you wish to extend courtesy to someone who is outside your Gorean culture and does not necessarily fit into Gorean categories, I would suggest using normal Earthling manners.  Addressing people by their names works fine, and so does asking someone individually how they identify and what they would prefer to be called.

My screen name has all the hints you need.  Folks can call me Lady, or Trainer, or N, or LNT, or LadyNTrainer.  I don't really give a hoot which, because all of those things are a variant of using the name I choose to present with.  Is the general idea of what I'm getting at becoming clearer?  You show respect by actually respecting people and their choices, not by forcing them into a pigeonhole that you make up for them.


Greetings,

It’s difficult to keep up with your dance steps here.

First you’re upset because (you say) “mistress” is demeaning because (you say) it denotes a subservient role to men in the BDSM community. I should have ignored that completely because that was just plain silly. But alas, in a moment of weakness, I graciously take time out of my very busy day (what was I thinking?) and provide you the true usage of that honorific in BDSM communities both online and off.

So, now well armed with this new knowledge you might look less silly and understanding that no one is calling you a subservient woman when they address you as Mistress. Predictably, you instead decide to play the righteously indignant victim of the terrible ignorant gorean male who obviously has no manners, does not understand BDSM social rites and therefore should appreciate a whole page of more nonsense from you to straighten him out.

To be clear, I really don't care what you think about the honorific I use in my postings or whether you think I should use your "name" instead. Finally, one bit of advice. You dance poorly so I suggest you not try to rise to the level of submissive because they dance well.

Arturas


< Message edited by Arturas -- 9/16/2010 4:09:18 PM >

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)
Profile   Post #: 138
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/16/2010 4:30:58 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline
Now which thread was it that I posted how not to lose so many friends at once? I'm gonna have to look and get back to this one.

Jeff

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Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 139
RE: Question for MASTERS only! - 9/16/2010 4:31:55 PM   
xkittenx


Posts: 43
Joined: 8/16/2010
Status: offline
LNT hasn't come to the Gorean boards and attacked you for having all the slaves call you Master. If anyone looks silly right now, its you. You've come here and completely disrespected the protocols of another group of people just because you don't follow those same protocols yourself.

The fact that you don't have any manners has nothing to do with whether or not you are Gorean. In fact, I've lurked quite a bit on the Gorean side and they don't have much patience for you either. I think you just like to argue with people.

_____________________________

- kitten 2.0

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Profile   Post #: 140
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