RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity

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pogo4pres -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 10:40:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: pogo4pres quote: ORIGINAL: angelikaJ I found this very interesting: http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/comparison_charts/islam_judaism_christianity.htm Judaism, Islam and Christianity are collectively known as "Abrahamic religions" because they trace their history to the covenant God made with Abraham in the Hebrew Bible. Rather like comparing the droppings of a male, Guernsey, Heifer, and Angus if you ask me. Scatologically, Some Knucklehead in NJ Now, I know you think you were flamed for posting a contradictory opinion to my own... but just for future reference... your post as the earmarks of flamebait. It is insulting, derogatory, and has no purpose other than to incite people to flame you back... Julia, it was meant as sarcasm, and frankly I really don't give a shit anymore, if you, or anyone else disagrees or not. Religion is a waste of brain power in my opinion, we could be focusing on the problems of the species instead of groveling to some "unseen" male authority figure in the sky. If people wish to waste their energy that way, so be it. I feel the same way about religion as do Bill Maher, Sir Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and the late great George Carlin. Now I will remind you and everyone else I DID THE "BORN AGAIN" GIG AS A TEENAGER. THAT was what lead me to conclude on my own, long before Carlin and the rest came along, that religion (or ORGANISED RELIGION, if you will) was BULLSHIT. You tell me Julia if as a 16 year old, one of your best high school pals is Jewish, and YOU have to go to a Jewish "retirement/community center" to hand out "tracts", and there is your pal with his family visiting grandma. How would you feel about your trying to force your belief down their throats?? That is what colors my perceptions of religion to this day. SO flame the fuck away, I am a big boy and I can deal with it. However in the future expect the same level of snark. Religuliosly, Some Knucklehead in NJ

Moonhead -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 12:59:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 I don`t think what the Israeli gov. is doing lately has anything to do with the Jewish faith. I heard an interesting quotation from an israeli diplomat stating that his country's biggest achievement recently was confusing Americans as to the difference between antisemitism and antizionism... I wish you would find that quote I wouldn't know where to start looking. It was on Today (a Radio 4 political broadsheet programme) and I didn't catch the guy's name.

juliaoceania -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 4:20:45 PM)
I just have different sensibilities than you do... for example, I wouldn't go on to a thread about free thought societies and tell everyone on those threads that they were going to hell. I wouldn't go into a synagogue and tell people there that they killed Jesus. I wouldn't go into a mosque and demand to pray with the men. etc etc etc... I wonder what goes on inside of some atheists that they have to go and shit all over threads that shouldn't concern them. I wonder why the need to come on to this thread and shit all over religion? Yes, you have a right to public buildings, public schools, and public squares that are free from religion. You do not have the right to demand a religion free world. There is an interesting concept called "respect", and you might not respect religion, but is is definitely sad that you do not respect other people and their right to talk about religion without your interjecting about it being "shit".... I know some religious people are assholes, but your behavior proves some atheists are too... and I don't give a shit if you don't give a shit.... your lack of respect makes your shit giving really meaningless to me

StrangerThan -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 6:06:46 PM)
I can understand being disillusioned. I been there myself. It took a few years and actually getting out in the world to bring back some perspective. What I don't really understand is the level of anger. It might be just reading your posts the wrong way, but you seem certainly pissed either at them or by them. Religion isn't bullshit. Regardless of all the ills that have been fostered on society by it, virtually every society that ever existed had some belief that went beyond simply being born, living and dying. In many cases, religion is what bound them together, what kept them together long enough to make a dent in history. That means a decent portion of what you've learned in life came not so much from religion but by a side effect of it. You mentioned Jewish folk. It isn't beyond reason to think that without religion, they would have been assimilated long ago by one of the conquerors. Years ago, I wrote a story about indigent deaths, how cold and impersonal the process was when they died and there was no one around to claim them or pay the bills. I won't go into too many details, but the money-changers will hang on to bodies for a good while looking for someone to pay the bill. The story generated quite a bit of interest. Not long after it was published, I received a call from the cemetery that buried most of those local folks. The director told me someone had called and offered to do services for them. My editor thought it a great followup. So off I went. Turned out to be a wiccan priestess. Now, I know next to nothing about wiccans. The woman showed up in a black robe, red sash and a dagger. So, I was wondering what the hell I was going to witness. What it turned out to be was a peaceful send off with most of the prayers and words done to one form of nature or another. When I sat down to write the story, I wrote what I saw and felt. I neither embellished nor detracted from it. I wanted it to sound like what I saw and felt because I knew the immediate knee-jerk reaction some would have and what I wanted them to feel was the peace and graceful sense she brought to that wooded hillside. Accepting religion in terms of being tolerant of it means you're going to accept some level of proselytizing. It is an inherent aspect of many of them. Being what I am, I can sit and listen to a wiccan explain their religion, or a muslim, or a Jew. Doesn't mean I'll hate them when it's over. I imagine the jewish people you referenced had heard it before and honestly, if you had, you might have gotten a good look at the religion in the dialog that followed. Being disillusioned I can understand. Not wanting anything really to do with them I can understand, but the anger I don't.

Rule -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 6:13:44 PM)
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thornhappy -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 6:19:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Why do them Abrahamic Jews believe that? How will they recognize him or perhaps her? By her vagina, or by the wart on his left nostril? Tell me; I wanna know. How do they know that he did not come already, in the distant past, Jesus himself, Mohammed? Can it be that them Abrahamic Jews missed the boat at least two (Jesus & Mohammed), possibly three or more times already? There is a set of criteria that the Messiah needs to fulfill, and Christ did not meet them. Neither did Mohammed. Where are you coming up with the coward bit? Are we all cowards for avoiding germs, using antibiotics, not sneezing in someone's face, etc.?

pogo4pres -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 6:26:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania I just have different sensibilities than you do... for example, I wouldn't go on to a thread about free thought societies and tell everyone on those threads that they were going to hell. I wouldn't go into a synagogue and tell people there that they killed Jesus. I wouldn't go into a mosque and demand to pray with the men. etc etc etc... I wonder what goes on inside of some atheists that they have to go and shit all over threads that shouldn't concern them. I wonder why the need to come on to this thread and shit all over religion? Yes, you have a right to public buildings, public schools, and public squares that are free from religion. You do not have the right to demand a religion free world. There is an interesting concept called "respect", and you might not respect religion, but is is definitely sad that you do not respect other people and their right to talk about religion without your interjecting about it being "shit".... I know some religious people are assholes, but your behavior proves some atheists are too... and I don't give a shit if you don't give a shit.... your lack of respect makes your shit giving really meaningless to me Not some atheists just this atheist. I'll tell you what though you get your god squad pals to stop interjecting religion in threads where not apropos, and I'll consider easing back on the snark. You and I as adults both know that ain't gonna happen. Now I ask: DID YOU BOTHER TO COMPREHEND THE PART WHERE I EXPLAINED MY "BORN AGAIN PHASE" or did you just glibly write that off as bullshit. I was on the fucking front lines of the born again movement 36 years ago, I been there done that. So don't spew your self righteous nonsense to me. I think I know of what I speak. All the good religion has ever done can never overcome all the ill's it has allowed. Sort of like the old military phrase : "One awwww shit, wipes out all the atta boys" Snarkily, Some Knucklehead in NJ P.S. I really am not an atheist so much as an apatheist, I do not know if there is a god or not, but my money is on NOT.

StayPutDarling -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 6:36:31 PM)
You know...I'm Jewish by heritage, but not by personal religious choice. (There's a good joke in here about being jew-ish) I'm an atheist. But it's atheists like pogo4pres that annoy me more than the most obnoxious fundamentalist. He's generally the reason I don't associate with other atheists! Why? Because the fundamentalist is, at least, forcing their ideas on others about something that they believe. Atheists like him are getting their panties in a roar over what are, according to said atheist, imaginary beings. That's like me getting REALLY mad because someone believes in unicorns, fairies, and a free lunch. Does anyone besides me see just how ridiculous that is? And yes, atheists will spout about the horrible things people have done in the name of religion. That's pretty much humanity in general. If it's not religion, it'd be something else to exert dominance over another. I don't know....like...skin color, financial status, sexuality, age, gender...OH WAIT! We already do that! Heck, all of us here, in some form or another, enjoy a little power-play. Human nature. Don't go blaming religion for humanity's actions.

TribeTziyon -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 6:56:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven A few corrections to the link: 1. There is no such thing as the "Jewish Bible". We follow the Old Testament. 2. As julia stated, Jews do not consider Jesus to be a false prophet, but instead a learned man with some interesting thoughts. We do not consider him to be divine, but have never called him false. 3. Under Major Splits, only two sects are recognized: Orthodox and Reform. There are also Conservatives, Falashas (Ethiopian Jews), and Hasidim, to my knowledge. 4. The Messiah info is Jesus-oriented, and omits that Jews believe that there will be a Messiah come to Earth, and he has not yet come. Christians believe that it will be Jesus, and that it will be the Second Coming. You could include the subsets of Reconstructionist and Humanistic too. The major split would be a three way- Conservative would land in the middle- at least in the US. Europe might see it different- I know the UK does. Orthodox is going to umbrella Hassids, MO, Chabad and a whole slew of others. You can stick the Karaites in there too somewhere.

GotSteel -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 7:01:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania You do not have the right to demand a religion free world. Of course he does, it's called freedom of speech. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania There is an interesting concept called "respect", and you might not respect religion, but is is definitely sad that you do not respect other people and their right to talk about religion without your interjecting about it being "shit".... Their right to not have his opinion interjected is called the hide button. Short of that no they don't have a right to only hear opinions that view religion in a positive light on an open forum.

Rule -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 7:12:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy Where are you coming up with the coward bit? Are we all cowards for avoiding germs, using antibiotics, not sneezing in someone's face, etc.? That depends on whether one has faith or not, as well as on how one interprets the circumstances of mishaps as orchestrated by the Divine or not. quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy There is a set of criteria that the Messiah needs to fulfill, and Christ did not meet them. Neither did Mohammed. As I understood it, Jesus did his utmost to fulfill the demands of the Old Testament. Where did he go wrong, then? I found some on an interesting website: quote: "The man destined to be the Messiah will be a direct descendant of King David (Isaiah 11:1) through the family of Solomon, David's son (1 Chronicles 22:9-l0). He will cause all the world to serve God together (Isaiah 11:2), be wiser than Solomon (Mishnah Torah Repentance 9:2), greater than the patriarchs and prophets (Aggadah Genesis 67), and more honored than kings (Mishnah Sanhedrin 10), for he will reign as king of the world (Pirkei Eliezer). Amongst the most basic missions that the Messiah will accomplish during his lifetime (Isaiah 42:4) are to: Oversee the rebuilding of Jerusalem, including the Third Temple, in the event that it has not yet been rebuilt (Michah 4:1 and Ezekiel 40-45) Gather the Jewish people from all over the world and bring them home to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 11:12; 27:12-13) Influence every individual of every nation to abandon and be ashamed of their former beliefs (or non-beliefs) and acknowledge and serve only the One True God of Israel (Isaiah 11:9-10; 40:5 and Zephaniah 3:9) Bring about global peace throughout the world (Isaiah 2:4; 11:5-9 and Michah 4:3-4). There are over a dozen additional prophecies which the Messiah will also achieve (there is no mention of any “second coming” in the Tanach or the New Testament). In order to avoid identifying the wrong individual as Messiah, the Code of Jewish Law dictates criteria for establishing the Messiah's identity (Mishnah Torah Kings 11:4): "If a king arises from the House of David who meditates on the Torah, occupies himself with the commandments as did his ancestor King David, observes the commandments of the Written and Oral Law, prevails upon all Israel to walk in the way of the Torah and to follow its direction, and fights the wars of God, it may be assumed that he is the Messiah. If he does these things and is fully successful, rebuilds the Third Temple on its location, and gathers the exiled Jews, he is beyond doubt the Messiah. But if he is not fully successful, or if he is killed, he is not the Messiah." In general they are stupid criteria, which in some cases contradict themselves as well as history itself.

thishereboi -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 7:52:35 PM)
quote: Religion is a waste of brain power in my opinion, we could be focusing on the problems of the species instead of groveling to some "unseen" male authority figure in the sky. How much money do you think christian organizations give to the poor and needy every year? Answer that one and then tell me where that help is going to come from after they are gone?

juliaoceania -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 10:28:59 PM)
quote: I'll tell you what though you get your god squad pals to stop interjecting religion in threads where not apropos, I would love to see an example of a thread where people are discussing atheism as a life path, and some religious nutjob on this site interjected that atheists are going to hell, or that they are immoral, or they are somehow stupid, etc... I would really love to see ONE example.... I have never seen one religious person post that on here... I think you are projecting your childhood experiences on to others here.There are very few, if any "God Squad" posters on this site. quote: DID YOU BOTHER TO COMPREHEND THE PART WHERE I EXPLAINED MY "BORN AGAIN PHASE" You know, I feel sorry that you have to paint everyone with the same brush because you had a negative experience. I know for a fact not all Atheists are as militant as you.

juliaoceania -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/8/2010 10:52:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GotSteel quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania You do not have the right to demand a religion free world. Of course he does, it's called freedom of speech. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania There is an interesting concept called "respect", and you might not respect religion, but is is definitely sad that you do not respect other people and their right to talk about religion without your interjecting about it being "shit".... Their right to not have his opinion interjected is called the hide button. Short of that no they don't have a right to only hear opinions that view religion in a positive light on an open forum. First... he has the right to say he wqnts a religion free country.. he has NO right to implement it...freedom of religion is a right. I never said he didn't have a right to spew whatever disrespectful shit he likes, what I said is that it is sad...I am allowed to think it is sad, and to say it is sad, and if you do not like MY opinion, bite me and hide me

Owner59 -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/9/2010 5:21:37 AM)
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thishereboi -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/9/2010 7:17:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Owner59 [sm=agree.gif][sm=goodpost.gif] Mark your calenders people....I agree with Owner59 Good post julia[:)]

WhipsAndGiggles -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/9/2010 8:03:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Thank you for replying, DS. quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Did them Jews ever consider that they might be mistaken? By definition, no. They would then be Christians. Thus they suffer from conceit and hubris. Not so? What would their former latter pagan God say about that? I rather think that he would be disappointed. quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven As far as I know. nobody claims that both Jesus AND Mohammed are the Messiah. Well, in fact said Messiah died ages before Jesus was born - yep, the Abrahamic Jews missed that boat - but never mind for that does not matter. In a very metaphorical sense anyone who improves upon the human condition is the Messiah - and Jesus and Mohammed both qualify. quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven I do not know how the Messiah will be recognized. Some things rest upon faith. If nobody knows, then he will never be recognized. That does not have anything to do with faith. If nobody knows what an elephant looks like, they might be flattened ten times over by a stampeding herd of elephants without ever realizing that them large beasts with trunks were the elephants they were expecting; they would probably call them elephants a plague from God. I hope everybody comprehends what I am saying here. If not, I might as well speak in Dutch. quote: ORIGINAL: DarkSteven quote: ORIGINAL: Rule Why are them Abrahamic Jews so very much afraid of death and disease? Are they cowards? Do they lack faith? Huh? Judaism IS a faith! It is a static and rigid and dead religion parroting a set of antiquated rules. That is not the same as having trust in the Divine. Them Abrahamic Jews ought to throw away their crutch and learn to stand on their own two legs and live. What they lack can be found at the crossroads. I'm not an expert on this... but my former slave was Jewish and it gave me an opportunity to learn a little. My understanding is that its not plain ole faith that will enable the Jews to recognize their Messiah, but rather there are some specific guidelines. One of them involves building the Third Temple .... but there are other specifications and you can read about them at this link: http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48892792.html

WhipsAndGiggles -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/9/2010 8:27:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule In general they are stupid criteria, which in some cases contradict themselves as well as history itself. Oh. I see you've already learned about some of the specific requirements, now. I still think that link I sent is worth reading. Here's the thing about "stupid criteria". So? Maybe it is stupid. So? It is their criteria. Have you looked at religions in general much? They are filled with contradictions and subjectively stupid shit. Stupid as in... lacking intelligence. Intelligence as in the ability to learn, reason, and understand. Religion doesn't involve much reasoning. It involves coming into contact with something that resonates within you on a spiritual level. It is typically faith-based and does not contain a strong a level of reasoning and logic.

GotSteel -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/9/2010 10:01:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania First... he has the right to say he wqnts a religion free country.. he has NO right to implement it...freedom of religion is a right. I never said he didn't have a right to spew whatever disrespectful shit he likes, what I said is that it is sad...I am allowed to think it is sad, and to say it is sad, and if you do not like MY opinion, bite me and hide me OK now I agree with what you are saying.

Archer -> RE: Comparing Islam, Judaism and Christianity (9/9/2010 12:11:27 PM)
pogo on the original comment you CAN NOT compare a male Gernsey, Heifer and Angus. You Could compare a male Gernsey and a male Angus. But Heifer is a female cow who has never given birth. so you cannot have a male Heifer.

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