Imam warns against moving the mosque (Full Version)

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StrangerThan -> Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 5:09:09 AM)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100909/ap_on_re_us/us_nyc_mosque_imam

Now this is where it starts to piss me off, because whether you like it or not, bowing to this kind of fear is a direct assault on your freedom to practice religion or avoid it completely if that is your choice. There's a point where offense made is stupid, like burning qurans just because you can. There's another point where giving in because you're afraid is an insult to the right itself.

Maybe the imam hasn't lived here long enough to know that being tolerant isn't the same as letting extremists dictate life.

And is it just me, or is this exactly the wrong thing to say given the controversy and the emotion of the last few weeks?




servantforuse -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 5:39:57 AM)

Who is this guy to come to this country and threaten us with violence. This is the United States of America, not the nation of Islam.



maybemaybenot -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 5:48:13 AM)

Islamic extremists have planned and carried out violent acts against us in the past and they continue to do so today. So if they move the  Cultural Center and Mosque it will change nothing. There is no news here from the Imam. He is simply fearmongering. The extremists will continue to attempt to attack us whether there is a Cultural Center w/ Mosque or not near Ground Zero.

Rauf said : "If I knew this would happen, if it would cause this kind of pain, I wouldn't have done it," he said.

Well, now you do know.... knowing you will cause pain to others....but you intend to plow forward anyway.
Cuz if you don't the US will be attacked. So the Cultural Center w/ Mosque going forth as plannned is going to save us ? BS.

                           mbmbn




Kirata -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 5:59:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

Well, now you do know.... knowing you will cause pain to others....but you intend to plow forward anyway.
Cuz if you don't the US will be attacked. So the Cultural Center w/ Mosque going forth as plannned is going to save us ? BS.

Maybe he's afraid for himself and his family, if he thinks (or has been told) that he will be viewed as having given in to the "Great Satan".

K.



maybemaybenot -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 6:04:48 AM)

100% Agreed, Kirata. I have zero doubt that he has been " warned ". Which gives even more credence to the arguement that the extremist Islamics are running this show, not the moderate Islamics and the entire thing is a sham to promote the extremist position. Either willingly or unwillingly.

               mbmbn



starshineowned -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 6:18:12 AM)


Agree so far with a few posters. There is nothing new here. Regardless of what we do it will incite something from someone somewhere. What did we do precisely "before" the 9/11 attack to incite that?

This is a nation grown from a christian foundation. Right or wrong christianity has been the roots of what has shaped Americas beliefs, practices, values, etc. and those more often than not will and do conflict with other religion.

Eventually this crusade will also come to a head just as it has many times before except this time we all have bigger and badder toys to show who's God is more mighty.

starshine



Owner59 -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 6:22:10 AM)

Is Gen. Patreous threatening us or warning us when he cautions us burning a holy book?


Some Americans are just scared whimps who can`t deal with reality,the truth or our constitution.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

added....

starshineowned:


"nation grown from a christian foundation"


So then, can we now put the violent deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians following 9/11 on Christians?

Wouldn`t that "logic" say we`re way ahead in the who killed who count?

[8|]



Sanity -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 6:31:09 AM)


Theres quite a disconnect between the articles headlines and the text of the article.

quote:

Imam fears moving NYC mosque could inflame tension


NEW YORK – The imam behind a proposed Islamic community center and mosque near ground zero cautioned Wednesday that moving the facility could cause a violent backlash from Muslim extremists and endanger national security.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf told CNN that the discourse surrounding the center has become so politicized that moving it could strengthen the ability of extremists abroad to recruit and wage attacks against Americans, including troops fighting in the Middle East.

"The headlines in the Muslim world will be that Islam is under attack," he said, but he added that he was open to the idea of moving the planned location of the center, currently two blocks north of the World Trade Center site.


But at least the story has been told.



DomYngBlk -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 6:34:43 AM)

Good god..you did something that made sense.....you feeling ok?



Sanity -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 6:42:10 AM)


Dont sweat it kid, its highly doubtful that you understood my point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Good god..you did something that made sense.....you feeling ok?



DomYngBlk -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 6:47:01 AM)

Too crafty for me......the genius is just awe inspiring



starshineowned -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 6:54:08 AM)

quote:



So then, can we now put the violent deaths of tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians following 9/11 on Christians?

Wouldn`t that "logic" say we`re way ahead in the who killed who count?


Point remains: America was grown from a christian foundation. Not Judism. Not Islam. Is Judism or Islam the same as Christianity? No..they are not.

Did I state anywhere that all christians practice what is preached? No..I did not. Did I state anywhere that all that follow any damn religion or no religion at all practice what they preach? No..I did not.

Did I anywhere excuse any actions or non actions by anyone anywhere? No..I did not.

Think only thing I did was state facts as I know them, and pose a question as to what incited the 9/11 incident to further support my statement of regardless of what we do or don't do..it will incite something from someone somewhere. No where in there did I support their actions nor ours at anytime did I?

starshine




Aneirin -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 7:22:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned


Agree so far with a few posters. There is nothing new here. Regardless of what we do it will incite something from someone somewhere. What did we do precisely "before" the 9/11 attack to incite that?

This is a nation grown from a christian foundation. Right or wrong christianity has been the roots of what has shaped Americas beliefs, practices, values, etc. and those more often than not will and do conflict with other religion.

Eventually this crusade will also come to a head just as it has many times before except this time we all have bigger and badder toys to show who's God is more mighty.

starshine



Interesting you should say that

Coz.....

I've been wondering about religion and weapons

Seeing as it in the holy handbook of the countries brought up under a Christian morality what is the case with guns and bombs and wars, surely that is not Christian morality ?

But you saying what you did, about showing whose god is mightier, is it not more of a case of mankind is showing God who is mightier, mankind being mightier than God, because we choose when we want to take his words to heart, but at other times, we just do what we feel, which includes, the killing, maiming and destroying of God's creations. To kill another human, one is trashing Gods art.

I find anyone who gives in to the baser sides of themselves as they do when they show what they are capable of when hurting, killing and destroying others have no right to call themselves Christian or whatever other religious identity where it is clear in the holy hand book that killing is bad. Catholics can confess and receive penance for their wrong doing, others just convince themselves that it is what God wants, when the reality is, God has nothing to do with it due to his reported sayings. People who wage war and kill God's creations are un-Christian.

But as an aside, Islamic armour and weapons from as far back as at least the crusades were classed as holy items, so much so, even with the personal armour, it was made with great care and skill and had made into the armour, prayers and other religious inscriptions, so it could be said it is within Islam to wage war and kill, but it is not within christianity, you lot are meant to love your neighbour and turn the other cheek.



thishereboi -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 7:32:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Dont sweat it kid, its highly doubtful that you understood my point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Good god..you did something that made sense.....you feeling ok?



He was agreeing with you. Now I know this probably doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's considered rude to answer back with an insult. Just sayin[8|]

Back on topic...

It sounds like he is implying that the muslim extremists wouldn't hate us anymore, if we went ahead and built the center. I find that really hard to believe. I doubt their feeling will change much either way. Now I have heard the reasoning behind the people protesting the building, but I haven't heard why the other side is so adamant about building it in that spot. I also have to wonder, because from what I have read, they don't have the money to build it even if they had permission. Maybe they could concentrate on raising the money needed and then try and find a spot that everyone could be happy with.



Owner59 -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 7:32:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned



I just pray people like who think like yourself don`t get into power again.


bush really really sucked and made things soooooo much worse.



flcouple2009 -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 8:11:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned
What did we do precisely "before" the 9/11 attack to incite that?


Extremist don't often need a real reason they can configure their own.

BUT

What have you been living under a rock your entire life?  Do you need a list of the missteps and screw ups we've had in that area of the world?  Which decade do you want to start with? 



Moonhead -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 8:40:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

100% Agreed, Kirata. I have zero doubt that he has been " warned ". Which gives even more credence to the arguement that the extremist Islamics are running this show, not the moderate Islamics and the entire thing is a sham to promote the extremist position. Either willingly or unwillingly.

               mbmbn

What, so everybody in Belfast is a hardcore Republican provo willing to get killed or locked up for "the cause"?



joether -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 10:12:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned



I just pray people like who think like yourself don`t get into power again.


bush really really sucked and made things soooooo much worse.


I get a chuckle with some of the deeply, dogmatic, individuals in the states, who truly belive America was founded A) As a Christian Nation or B) On Christian values. The founding fathers did not like all the religious intolerance taking place in Europe, and saw signs of that here in the colonies (i.e. Salem Witch Trials). They decided, 'Freedom of Religion' should trump laws that ban one philosophy or force the promotion of another. The nation, was founded on religious freedom from the King of England.

I agree with you, Owner59, George W. Bush was plain awful to the USA.



truckinslave -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 12:40:23 PM)

quote:

Which gives even more credence to the arguement that the extremist Islamics are running this show,


I personally find it incredible that people doubt those the US considers extremists (aka, imo, "observant") run Islam.



maybemaybenot -> RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque (9/9/2010 12:53:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

100% Agreed, Kirata. I have zero doubt that he has been " warned ". Which gives even more credence to the arguement that the extremist Islamics are running this show, not the moderate Islamics and the entire thing is a sham to promote the extremist position. Either willingly or unwillingly.

              mbmbn

What, so everybody in Belfast is a hardcore Republican provo willing to get killed or locked up for "the cause"?


My post was pretty comprhendable, I believe. But I will elaborate a little more.
There is a large group of people in this country who are claiming that radical Islam is behind the Cultural Center and Mosque. The Imam says if they move it, radical Islam will take revenge on the US. People who believe radical Islam is behind the Cultural Center and Mosque now have more amunition for their arguement.
Comprende ?

I don't " get " your question, but I will take a stab at it. You can certainly correct me if my answer doesn't answer your question.

Kirata said that perhaps the Imam was threatened. I believe that is probably true. So this Imam will not change direction for his own safety or perhaps even his families safety. Which means that the radical Islamists have a hand in the pie. The Imam may not willingly want them involved, but if he has been threatened, they are involved in a passive way, and the Imam is unwillingly allowing it.

I don't know where you get anything about being locked up or killed for the cause.

The above is my very own opinion, so no, I do not have a link

            mbmbn



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