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RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 1:04:35 PM   
maybemaybenot


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Is Gen. Patreous threatening us or warning us when he cautions us burning a holy book?


Some Americans are just scared whimps who can`t deal with reality,the truth or our constitution.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




Hmmmm.. Is General Petreous threatening us ?
I..... don't....... think...... so.
I think what the general said was a warning that IF the Koran burning happens there will be fallout from the extremists, which will endanger the lives of US soldiers and civilians. I think he was telling us that there is a threat from outside our borders, if that happens.

Where did you get that question from my post about the Imam ?

I didn't even say the Imam threatened us. I said I believe he was threatened against moving it.

              mbmbn

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Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 1:47:45 PM   
hertz


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quote:

Regardless of what we do it will incite something from someone somewhere. What did we do precisely "before" the 9/11 attack to incite that


Is this a rhetorical question, starshineowned? I only ask because I think there is an answer, but I am confident you won't like it.

Having already stirred up someone else's Antnest, hopefully you'll understand why I am not just blundering in to explain it to you. I could do without being accused of supporting terrorism at this point.

(in reply to maybemaybenot)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 1:56:13 PM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

100% Agreed, Kirata. I have zero doubt that he has been " warned ". Which gives even more credence to the arguement that the extremist Islamics are running this show, not the moderate Islamics and the entire thing is a sham to promote the extremist position. Either willingly or unwillingly.

              mbmbn

What, so everybody in Belfast is a hardcore Republican provo willing to get killed or locked up for "the cause"?


My post was pretty comprhendable, I believe. But I will elaborate a little more.
There is a large group of people in this country who are claiming that radical Islam is behind the Cultural Center and Mosque. The Imam says if they move it, radical Islam will take revenge on the US. People who believe radical Islam is behind the Cultural Center and Mosque now have more amunition for their arguement.
Comprende ?

I don't " get " your question, but I will take a stab at it. You can certainly correct me if my answer doesn't answer your question.

Kirata said that perhaps the Imam was threatened. I believe that is probably true. So this Imam will not change direction for his own safety or perhaps even his families safety. Which means that the radical Islamists have a hand in the pie. The Imam may not willingly want them involved, but if he has been threatened, they are involved in a passive way, and the Imam is unwillingly allowing it.

I don't know where you get anything about being locked up or killed for the cause.

The above is my very own opinion, so no, I do not have a link

            mbmbn


It's what they call an analogy. During the troubles, the assumption that all of the Irish were offering tacit if not active support to the Republicans (you know, those gents who used to bomb Oxford Street every Christmas and wiped half of Birmingham's town centre off the map during the '70s with funds that mostly came your fellow countrymen?) was depressingly popular with a lot of people who should have known better.
This assumption (which as you say is completely unsubstantiated, not that this is stopping you building castles in the clouds over it) that the community centre in walking distance of what's left of the world trade centre is being run by Jihadists seems a similar type of assumption that something you do don't like is being run by eeevil religious nutcases who want to kill you. See the similarity?

(The fact that there wouldn't have been any hypothetical threat to the Iman and his family without all of the pissing and moaning from a right leaning media drawing the lunatic fringe's attention to it in the first place is neither here nor there, of course.)

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 2:30:00 PM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned



I just pray people like who think like yourself don`t get into power again.


bush really really sucked and made things soooooo much worse.


I get a chuckle with some of the deeply, dogmatic, individuals in the states, who truly belive America was founded A) As a Christian Nation or B) On Christian values. The founding fathers did not like all the religious intolerance taking place in Europe, and saw signs of that here in the colonies (i.e. Salem Witch Trials). They decided, 'Freedom of Religion' should trump laws that ban one philosophy or force the promotion of another. The nation, was founded on religious freedom from the King of England.

I agree with you, Owner59, George W. Bush was plain awful to the USA.


I really get a chuckle out of people who think Christianity had nothing to do with it.


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 2:34:16 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Lol..

Where the heck are you all pulling any of this posted nonsense giving the impression that I'm taking someones side here as to who has more ills than the other? Please I really like to know. I've made no side choices nor have I condoned anyones practices that cause hurt or harm to another.

Please show me anywhere flcouple where I wrote anything  supporting or showing of favortism towards those that call themselves christians as to alleviate them of any wrong doing. Nor have I shown the same to any others who carry a different religious banner.

What I do know is historically many of the wars have been done in the name of religion, and I see this pitting against one anothers as just coming finally to a head.

Man..you people sure like to bring out questions of such shit sometimes.

flcouple, owner59..are you both stating that America wasn't founded by those calling themselves christians? Is that your arguement here?
Are you both denying that wars have not been fought in the name of religion, and they have used this reasoning to wage war?

Do you see me stating any other point than no matter what we do it will incite someone somewhere? Did I ever state that what we do or have done was right or wrong? No.

Learn to read and stop reading stuff thats not there already.

starshine



< Message edited by starshineowned -- 9/9/2010 2:53:22 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 2:34:20 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		No Moon, I am not saying it will be run by Jihadists.

Apparently my communication abilities or your reading comprehension abilities are impaired. Most likely the latter.

The Imam himself says if he moves the project, it will incur the wrath and violent acts from the jihadists. NOT jihadists involved in the project,  to my knowledge there is no proof of any active involvement in the project by jihadists. But jihadists, somewhere, who have in some way communicated to the Imam that they will take action against us should he move it.

Again... Kirata brought up the idea that perhaps he and or his family were threatened by the jihadists. I happen to think that is plauseable.
Sooooo,  let's re cap : The Imam says he would have moved the project had he known it would cause pain. He goes on to say, if they move it now the jihadists will take violent action against the US. So he cannot move it.The jihadists are indicating to the moderate Imam, that he must abide by there will or bring violence against the US. The Imam said this, not me. The jihadist become directly involved, imo, because they are threatening the Imam to do their will or evil will occur. I don't mean they will be in NYC running it, but if they are already threatening before it's built, what will they do when it is built and this Imam does something they don't agree with ? Hmmmmmm, threaten violence against the US ? Pretty good assumption given the extremists track record.

Did you read the first paragraph of the article. The backers, which includes the Imam, are regretful over there decision. Continuing down the page, despite their regret, they don't want to incur the wrath of the jihadists. < paraphrasing, but that's it in a nutshell >
And if you don't think it is plausable that a radical fringe of Islam or a radical Islamic individual is above threatening the life of the Imam and or his family, than you are a fool. That does not make it so, but it makes it a consideration.

And that's about all I have to say on the subject. if you want to continue to misconstrue and re invent my post : have at it.

                             mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 2:51:30 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

No Moon, I am not saying it will be run by Jihadists.

Apparently my communication abilities or your reading comprehension abilities are impaired. Most likely the latter.

The Imam himself says if he moves the project, it will incur the wrath and violent acts from the jihadists. NOT jihadists involved in the project,  to my knowledge there is no proof of any active involvement in the project by jihadists. But jihadists, somewhere, who have in some way communicated to the Imam that they will take action against us should he move it.

Again... Kirata brought up the idea that perhaps he and or his family were threatened by the jihadists. I happen to think that is plauseable.
Sooooo,  let's re cap : The Imam says he would have moved the project had he known it would cause pain. He goes on to say, if they move it now the jihadists will take violent action against the US. So he cannot move it.The jihadists are indicating to the moderate Imam, that he must abide by there will or bring violence against the US. The Imam said this, not me. The jihadist become directly involved, imo, because they are threatening the Imam to do their will or evil will occur. I don't mean they will be in NYC running it, but if they are already threatening before it's built, what will they do when it is built and this Imam does something they don't agree with ? Hmmmmmm, threaten violence against the US ? Pretty good assumption given the extremists track record.

Did you read the first paragraph of the article. The backers, which includes the Imam, are regretful over there decision. Continuing down the page, despite their regret, they don't want to incur the wrath of the jihadists. < paraphrasing, but that's it in a nutshell >
And if you don't think it is plausable that a radical fringe of Islam or a radical Islamic individual is above threatening the life of the Imam and or his family, than you are a fool. That does not make it so, but it makes it a consideration.

And that's about all I have to say on the subject. if you want to continue to misconstrue and re invent my post : have at it.

                             mbmbn

Maybe you should try actually answering the points in my post before you start making snotty and condescending comments about my reading comprehension? Still, I suppose it doesn't matter now that you've backtracked on your initial comment about the extremists running the show.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 3:04:57 PM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

Maybe you should try actually answering the points in my post before you start making snotty and condescending comments about my reading comprehension? Still, I suppose it doesn't matter now that you've backtracked on your initial comment about the extremists running the show.


That is exactly the fucking problem. If you build it because you are afraid of what they might do, they are running the show.


_____________________________


--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 3:15:11 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


Posts: 3506
Joined: 12/20/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		I'm afraid they won't build it because of fears that if they do build it they'll be giving into fears of violence.

I walked into a bank the other day and said to the teller that I'm scared you'll not give me something for nothing and then she said she was scared that I'd ask for something for nothing and not be able to give me nothing because of that. It used to be so easy before terrorism was invented we just did what came naturally say letting peaceful acts not be misconstrued as threats of violence, intimidation, invasion etc.

Obviously if people hadn't made such a fuss about it in the first place nobody would be in a position to claim victory over any decision. Now it's lose, lose.


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 3:15:38 PM   
starshineowned


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From: Texas
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quote:

get a chuckle with some of the deeply, dogmatic, individuals in the states, who truly belive America was founded A) As a Christian Nation or B) On Christian values. The founding fathers did not like all the religious intolerance taking place in Europe, and saw signs of that here in the colonies (i.e. Salem Witch Trials). They decided, 'Freedom of Religion' should trump laws that ban one philosophy or force the promotion of another. The nation, was founded on religious freedom from the King of England.


Okay..this gives a single reason of probably a whole slue of reasons of why America was founded but please tell me what that has to do with those founding it not being predominantly Christian? This is what they referred to themselves as religiously. I can't attest to whether they acted like it or not then nor now. I'm sure God will clue us in at some point.

Now I will grant you that this very issue is still strongly debated and you are correct..it is a matter of who's historical documents proof you choose to believe. There is nothing dogmatic about it. I'm sure there are quite a few historical documents from the original colonies laying about somewhere to read over and note the language and wording used within them to govern. I'm gonna wager a penny that use of the word Christian will pop up.

I'm also not stating that other beliefs were not present and did not promote certain principles or values but I don't think any of those are reflected as a actual religion. I'd be interested in knowing if any other actual religions were present and accepted at that time as a religion though.

starshine




_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 3:17:16 PM   
Moonhead


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Joined: 9/21/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

Maybe you should try actually answering the points in my post before you start making snotty and condescending comments about my reading comprehension? Still, I suppose it doesn't matter now that you've backtracked on your initial comment about the extremists running the show.


That is exactly the fucking problem. If you build it because you are afraid of what they might do, they are running the show.


Would they even know about this if most of your media hadn't spent the last month whining about it?
Still, I take your point. Given all of the hysterical overreaction and fearmongering over a single terrorist attack nine years ago, the Jihadists have obviously been running your show since the eleventh of September 2001. What have they managed in the 'States since then? Fuck all. But the way some people are talking, you'd think they were killing dozens of civilians minding their own business at home every other week...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 3:25:29 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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From: S.E. London U.K.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned
Okay..this gives a single reason of probably a whole slue of reasons of why America was founded but please tell me what that has to do with those founding it not being predominantly Christian?

starshine

The history of movies told me all the Christians stayed at home because they thought they'd fall off the edge of the world.

So logically therefore the founders of America must have been either depressed Christians or atheists.

Ask Walt Disney he no lie.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 3:41:47 PM   
StrangerThan


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Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: StrangerThan

quote:

Maybe you should try actually answering the points in my post before you start making snotty and condescending comments about my reading comprehension? Still, I suppose it doesn't matter now that you've backtracked on your initial comment about the extremists running the show.


That is exactly the fucking problem. If you build it because you are afraid of what they might do, they are running the show.


Would they even know about this if most of your media hadn't spent the last month whining about it?
Still, I take your point. Given all of the hysterical overreaction and fearmongering over a single terrorist attack nine years ago, the Jihadists have obviously been running your show since the eleventh of September 2001. What have they managed in the 'States since then? Fuck all. But the way some people are talking, you'd think they were killing dozens of civilians minding their own business at home every other week...


No just soldiers coming home from war.

Fuck all is an apt description. After reading what you write, I'm not sure what is running your show. I'll tell you what's running mine. imam rauf just lent credence to those who think radicals are behind it, just lent credence to those who think its a victory mosque, just lent credence to people who think muslims can't understand, much less function in a society that accepts all religions, and just stirred anger of anyone who has a nationalistic bone in their body, of which I admit having several by telling us that we have to be very careful what we do in our own country,  otherwise muslims will explode in anger. I imagine there is quite a few people across the country thinking and saying, well fuck all, let them explode.

Anyone who felt this mosque was being built in the wrong place because of where it was, not what it was, is going to be swallowed by all those he just gave credence to. And he just kind of shit on all the people who argued that it was an issue of intolerance. Cuz their voices will be swallowed too if the pundits work this the right way. I mean, if you wanted it to be a debate between islam and the US, you just got it.

I left a link for you to read, fuck all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Hood_massacre



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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 4:05:19 PM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		As I said: fuck all. Two attacks in a decade is a lot less than most of the rest of the world gets.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/9/2010 5:59:25 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
Alright.

I apologize to DomYngBlk, I should know better than to go off half cocked like that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Dont sweat it kid, its highly doubtful that you understood my point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk

Good god..you did something that made sense.....you feeling ok?



He was agreeing with you. Now I know this probably doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's considered rude to answer back with an insult. Just sayin


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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/10/2010 5:50:22 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		There were so many Biblical references in the writings of the Founders that to claim the US was not founded on Judeo Christian values is nonsensical.

The Ten Commandments is in the fresco at SCOTUS...................

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/10/2010 5:53:19 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

What have they managed in the 'States since then?


They have bungled several serious attacks, and we have stopped many others. It's not like they've beaten their swords into plowshares, or like we've killed them all. Yet.

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/10/2010 6:01:47 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		I think I've got most of it now, StrangerThan.

If we protest the mosque, we will make Muslims mad and they will kill (some of) us. I get it.
If we burn the Koran we will make Muslims mad and they will kill (some of) us. I get it.
If we are indelicate in our descriptions of the child molester named Mohammed we will make Muslims mad and they will kill (some of) us. I get it.
Many of us want to be sure that we do nothing to make Muslims mad in the hope that they will not kill (more of) us. Appeasement and cowardice. I get that.

What I do not get is when we can trade in the PC-compliant limpdick moniker "Religion of Peace" and go with something more realistic, say, "Religion of Killers Looking for a Fucking Excuse"?

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to StrangerThan)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/10/2010 7:13:23 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

What have they managed in the 'States since then?


They have bungled several serious attacks, and we have stopped many others. It's not like they've beaten their swords into plowshares, or like we've killed them all. Yet.

When did I say that they had? My point was that they aren't a serious enough threat (given that, as you say, most attacks since 2001 were either completely half baked and doomed to failure from the off or stopped in advance) to warrant the bizarre hysteria people like yourself tend to resort to whenever the situation's mentioned. Hell, even the thing in 2001 only happened because Cheney and his monkey ignored the intelligence reports that bin Laden was planning something big.
Or to put it a bit more simply: does some idiot blowing up his underpants really strike you as a deadly enough threat to your country to warrant suspending basic civil rights? The impression I get is that there's people in your country who've been shitting themselves every time they hear the word "muslim" since 2001. I suppose in that respect the terrorists could be said to have won, but they haven't achieved anything else in the last nine years.

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to truckinslave)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Imam warns against moving the mosque - 9/10/2010 10:46:29 AM   
truckinslave


Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline 		You evidently don't consider trying to blow up an airliner over a major city to be a big deal. I do. You evidently think the war on terror to be a big joke. I don't.

P.S. None of my basic civil rights have been vitiated, rantings to the contrary notwithstanding. Had they been, wouldn't 0bama0 the Messiah have restored them?

< Message edited by truckinslave -- 9/10/2010 11:20:07 AM >

_____________________________

1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

(in reply to Moonhead)
Profile   Post #: 40
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