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RE: i will do anything you want - 9/14/2010 9:29:19 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Athough, for relationships, the cynical side of me says that whoever is most willing to call it quits has the real power.


I've actually never really agreed with that sentiment.  I think it's only true if the relationship is based on the threat of someone leaving. If both are in it and committed for the long haul, then no one thinks about leaving and the power is based on something else, entirely.  Likely it's the connection between the people involved, and the energy that flows between them.

I have my own personal power.  I give it to him though, in our relationship and he uses it as he sees fit. We both have power, but I yield mine to his.  We both could call it quits, but why would we want to, when things are going so well?  So that doesn't factor into the power equation for us.



Hi NV, I do understand what you are saying, but I also agree somewhat with Aqua. What you are talking about is two people equally commited and engaged int he relationship.

What Aqua means, and I believe, is that normally within relationships, one loves more than another, thus the one who loves less is more in control as the one who loves more is always on tenuous ground in some way.

That is a very bad way to conduct a relationship, but it is true.

(in reply to NuevaVida)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: i will do anything you want - 9/14/2010 10:21:42 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
That is a very bad way to conduct a relationship, but it is true.
*laughs* Yeah. I wouldn't even consider such an "arrangement" a relationship at all much less one worth staying in. Sadly, I agree with you that it is pretty normal. I prefer to model my relationships as partnerships rather than competitions.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: i will do anything you want - 9/14/2010 11:53:12 AM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
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Oh i so agree with the last sentence above!   Having been in a "competition" marriage, and a partnership relationship, and embarking on another partnership relationship, i can definitely say that i prefer partners, not competitors.  It doesn't make me less submissive, it makes me a better submissive, because i'm not constantly looking for "one-up" situations, or trying to score points.

A partnership shares power, but delegates authority, which is where i and my dominant are.  Its a very comfortable position for me. I don't need micromanaging, and he would hate to have to do  it, so what we have is agreed upon boundaries.  In public and outside the bedroom we are a fairly conventional boyfriend/girlfriend, with some quirks,   and in the bedroom all bets are off.  He may ask me about some activities but he gets to do what he will.   And sometimes i don't like it.   But that is the authority i have acceded to him.
Works well for us.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: i will do anything you want - 9/14/2010 11:58:10 AM   
sophiesback


Posts: 4039
Joined: 11/4/2009
From: Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Both parties hold the power in the relationship. You cannot be dominant to the kitchen sink, you need a submissive. You cannot submit to the kitchen sink either, you need a dominant. It's a relationship. It works as long as both people are happy and want to stay in it.

Beyond that, wanting to do stuff that your sub likes so they smile and are happy does not make you submissive, it makes you someone who prefers a happy partner.



I have never been Dom'ed by the kitchen sink. I have been Dom'ed by the dishwasher though!

_____________________________

CM's Resident Goof
30 Fluffy points

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: i will do anything you want - 9/14/2010 1:39:17 PM   
kiwisub12


Posts: 4742
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline
I myself, am  a slave to the laundry room.



Bummer.               and whats more, i get no pleasure from it.

(in reply to sophiesback)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: i will do anything you want - 9/14/2010 3:34:07 PM   
SecretTemptation


Posts: 11
Joined: 6/5/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP



Beyond that, wanting to do stuff that your sub likes so they smile and are happy does not make you submissive, it makes you someone who prefers a happy partner.


i think that is a lovely sentiment and a gentle reminer that it is not submissive to be kind and caring

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: i will do anything you want - 9/14/2010 4:36:20 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
Beyond that, wanting to do stuff that your sub likes so they smile and are happy does not make you submissive, it makes you someone who prefers a happy partner.
Sheez, and here I thought that my strong desire to make Carol happy made me a "service-master" and/or a fake. Man, I will NEVER learn all this stuff *chuckles*

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to DesFIP)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: i will do anything you want - 9/14/2010 6:30:28 PM   
jujubeeMB


Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
What Aqua means, and I believe, is that normally within relationships, one loves more than another, thus the one who loves less is more in control as the one who loves more is always on tenuous ground in some way.

That is a very bad way to conduct a relationship, but it is true.


Quoted for truth, bolded for extra truth.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: i will do anything you want - 9/16/2010 6:58:40 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Athough, for relationships, the cynical side of me says that whoever is most willing to call it quits has the real power.


"The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it." - Dune

Of the many interpretations of the word kajira, one of the more profound ones is precisely this: when she cannot do without him, and he will not let her have him save on her knees. Fits well with my proposed etymology of the word, as it is as lowly a state as addiction, while still carrying within it the potential to be something beautiful if that dynamic suits them both.

Quite apart from that, the statement about power as an illusion should be qualified.

Any unopposable or absolute power is obviously an illusion, as power is being able to do. And in doing lies, always, a potential for conflict where powers are opposed, and usually the greater power prevails (though history has shown that fortune can allow a lesser power to defeat a greater one). And, of course, even being unopposed, or conquering opposition, does not render the capacity for doing somehow absolute or limitless.

This does not make power itself an illusion, just poorly understood.

Humans are, on the whole, wired to submit to authority, whether conferred or inherent (i.e. taken). The ability to know the limits of one's power, and the audacity to wield it within those boundaries, is no illusion. Milgram and later researchers have clearly demonstrated that a vast majority of humans are the subjects of power, not its wielders. Whether by instinct, or by realization and cultivation, one can indeed wield power over others. The extent of this power is, on average, not constrained by morality, convenience, or other concerns that people tend to think would cause them to resist the exercise of power. Throw a fine touch and some subtlety into it, and the picture is truly stark.

For me, that's an agreeable state of affairs.

It is efficient, and it is in line with the principle underlying division of labor. It is what makes it possible for me to rely on the compliance of others when I need to resolve a problem. And it obviously isn't unpalatable when one is of a dominant inclination. The principal downside is that it allows great conflicts to arise needlessly when someone wields it in a particular manner, such as was the case with Shaka Zulu, Hitler, Stalin, Alexander the Great and so forth. From my perspective, however, this is offset by the combination of its everyday applications, and the counterexamples to the aforementioned people, such as Ghandi, M. A. Attatürk, Leonidas I, Martin L. King, Vlad the Impaler, and other such heroes.

To write off power as an illusion is a gross simplification to the point of error.

Health,
al-Aswad.


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to AquaticSub)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: i will do anything you want - 9/16/2010 8:19:53 PM   
AquaticSub


Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Athough, for relationships, the cynical side of me says that whoever is most willing to call it quits has the real power.


I've actually never really agreed with that sentiment.  I think it's only true if the relationship is based on the threat of someone leaving. If both are in it and committed for the long haul, then no one thinks about leaving and the power is based on something else, entirely.  Likely it's the connection between the people involved, and the energy that flows between them.

I have my own personal power.  I give it to him though, in our relationship and he uses it as he sees fit. We both have power, but I yield mine to his.  We both could call it quits, but why would we want to, when things are going so well?  So that doesn't factor into the power equation for us.



Hi NV, I do understand what you are saying, but I also agree somewhat with Aqua. What you are talking about is two people equally commited and engaged int he relationship.

What Aqua means, and I believe, is that normally within relationships, one loves more than another, thus the one who loves less is more in control as the one who loves more is always on tenuous ground in some way.

That is a very bad way to conduct a relationship, but it is true.


Pretty much.

I don't regard it as a way to conduct a relationship at all. Just a factor in the relationships. It's a factor that comes into play in many non-sexual/romantic dynamics. Does the employer need the employee more? Which business partner needs who more?

For us, Valyraen and I don't spend any time trying to figure out who loves who more to figure out who has that "power". That's just one of those things that I don't think we need to figure out.

I also truly don't see it as a competition. More like an unfortunate fact. The person most prepared to leave when shit hits the fan has that ultimate power. But in a loving relationship, it'll never come to that and you'll probably never figure out who is more prepared to leave.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 30
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