RE: How hard is it for (straight) men?

RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (Full Version)

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DesFIP -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 12:46:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DCWoody @Julia, I was messing mostly....but I do reckon there's a slight double standard in there. strange men, risk of disease.......surely also strange women, risk of disease? :) Actually the risk of infection is higher male to female than the reverse. Vaginal tissues are thinner and thus more likely to have slight cuts or nicks from a razor or fingernails. Highest male risk is anal sex because that tissue, like vaginal tissue, is thinner and more easily torn. It is not uncommon for men to carry and transmit, but not catch a disease.

rednicky -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 12:48:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit People do what they do because they just do! You want to know why they do it, ask them, Could have sworn I was. And I didn't add anything. I restated what I wrote already. You misinterpreted. I corrected. Don't take my corrections as limitations and new aspects to this concern. You were wrong/misinformed. I told you why. Don't get mad. Get over it.

Musicmystery -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 1:06:11 PM)
http://www.findmeahobby.com/

Lockit -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 1:07:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky I went out the other night with some friends to a club because one of my friends was feeling down.It was a club or the older crowd. 30+. I felt out of place (I wasn't dressed properly since this was a last minute decision) So you felt out of place because it was an older crowd and you weren't dressed properly. So you in a sense could be thought by another to be struggling. I bet few cared that you were younger or not dressed a certain way. It mattered mostly to you. You didn't feel like getting out and doing much more than people watching. You own it... but for a man struggling in your opinion, there must be something more to it than maybe they didn't feel like they fit in or were dressed properly. so I decided to just sit at the table and watch bags and jackets. While there, I had a chance to observe men and women interacting. What I saw sort of surprised me. The women had more than enough attention and usually when one danced alone, it was because she wanted to. But for men, they'd camp along the walls and observed. Unless one came with a girl, they seemed to have a tough time finding a dance partner or someone to just talk to. Very few actually took that chance and approached a woman to ask to dance. They'd wait and hope for an opening (a smile, a come-hither glance, etc...). But none would actually put themselves on the line and risk embarrassment to speak with a girl. Still, you'd rather stand on the wall and not move for the entire night than just walk up to the girl and take whatever happens? How do you know it was embarrassment and a risk that kept them from talking with a girl? Did you ask or assume your assessment of the situation was correct? Could there be other reasons they didn't speak to the girls? Of course, I'm in no position to judge. I'm not a man. Perhaps it's not that simple. Correct. I've never really had a firm grasp of how hard or easy it is for men to find women. Since I don't have many male friends and watch waaaaay too much tv for my own good, I really don't know what it's like for men to go out and find women. Again, maybe correct. Last time I checked, I thought men had an easy time with women. especially when alcohol is involved. but is this just tv? Do guys really struggle? Should women cut them some slack? If men are struggling, why would you ask if women should cut them some slack? Why would a woman have anything to do with it? It could be all to do with the man. His insecurity or fear or whatever... lack of interest, other focuses... would be the answer. Why would you assume it is the women who need to do something to make it easier for a man to step out and talk to a 'girl'? What can we do to make things easier if it is indeed impossibly hard to approach a woman? Again, why would women need to do anything? What makes it our responsibility? Shouldn't the man who is struggling, if in fact he is, do something about why he is struggling with women? p.s- I know there is no bdsm to this question but I didn't feel it was appropriate for general.

rednicky -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 1:18:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lockit quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky I went out the other night with some friends to a club because one of my friends was feeling down.It was a club or the older crowd. 30+. I felt out of place (I wasn't dressed properly since this was a last minute decision) So you felt out of place because it was an older crowd and you weren't dressed properly. So you in a sense could be thought by another to be struggling. I bet few cared that you were younger or not dressed a certain way. It mattered mostly to you. You didn't feel like getting out and doing much more than people watching. You own it... but for a man struggling in your opinion, there must be something more to it than maybe they didn't feel like they fit in or were dressed properly. so I decided to just sit at the table and watch bags and jackets. While there, I had a chance to observe men and women interacting. What I saw sort of surprised me. The women had more than enough attention and usually when one danced alone, it was because she wanted to. But for men, they'd camp along the walls and observed. Unless one came with a girl, they seemed to have a tough time finding a dance partner or someone to just talk to. Very few actually took that chance and approached a woman to ask to dance. They'd wait and hope for an opening (a smile, a come-hither glance, etc...). But none would actually put themselves on the line and risk embarrassment to speak with a girl. Still, you'd rather stand on the wall and not move for the entire night than just walk up to the girl and take whatever happens? How do you know it was embarrassment and a risk that kept them from talking with a girl? Did you ask or assume your assessment of the situation was correct? Could there be other reasons they didn't speak to the girls? Of course, I'm in no position to judge. I'm not a man. Perhaps it's not that simple. Correct. I've never really had a firm grasp of how hard or easy it is for men to find women. Since I don't have many male friends and watch waaaaay too much tv for my own good, I really don't know what it's like for men to go out and find women. Again, maybe correct. Last time I checked, I thought men had an easy time with women. especially when alcohol is involved. but is this just tv? Do guys really struggle? Should women cut them some slack? If men are struggling, why would you ask if women should cut them some slack? Why would a woman have anything to do with it? It could be all to do with the man. His insecurity or fear or whatever... lack of interest, other focuses... would be the answer. Why would you assume it is the women who need to do something to make it easier for a man to step out and talk to a 'girl'? What can we do to make things easier if it is indeed impossibly hard to approach a woman? Again, why would women need to do anything? What makes it our responsibility? Shouldn't the man who is struggling, if in fact he is, do something about why he is struggling with women? p.s- I know there is no bdsm to this question but I didn't feel it was appropriate for general. quote: I bet few cared that you were younger or not dressed a certain way. It mattered mostly to you. You didn't feel like getting out and doing much more than people watching. You own it... but for a man struggling in your opinion, there must be something more to it than maybe they didn't feel like they fit in or were dressed properly. Lol not once did I say I could be thought of as struggling. Not once. I felt awkward. Like if you went to church in jeans. Most people who actually attend wouldn't care but I'd still feel out of place. I DON'T know if it was embarrassing. This whole thread is a question, including the sentence you highlighted. I sought understanding. The answers to my thread would have determined whether or not I'd feel women could stand to change (again, the last statements were questions). If I got a whole bunch of responses of genuinely frustrated men who talked about how cruel or unapproachable or cliquey women came off, I would indeed feel that women could change and stand to be a little nicer, whether they are interested or not. And that would be my opinion. If I got answers that didn't have men complaining, which was the case, of course I wouldn't feel women need to change.

juliaoceania -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 1:36:38 PM)
quote: If I got a whole bunch of responses of genuinely frustrated men who talked about how cruel or unapproachable or cliquey women came off, I would indeed feel that women could change and stand to be a little nicer, whether they are interested or not. And that would be my opinion. If I got answers that didn't have men complaining, which was the case, of course I wouldn't feel women need to change. I agree with Lockit on this one, no one is responsible for how a stranger feels. If a man feels whiny, like "women are bitches" because he can't get anywhere with them, the women do not owe him a damned thing. Why should a woman talk to a man she isn't interested in because it would make him happy? Why should a woman take away from her friends, social interactions, to please some stranger she has no desire to engage with? Here is something i have learned on planet earth, I am not responsible for how other people feel. People need to own their emotional life and quit holding other random people responsible for their emotional states. At this point in my life I am highly resistant to feeling one moment's discomfort to please someone else, why should I? What makes someone else's feelings more important than my own? Why would you expect women to give pity dances to horny men in clubs when they would rather dance with their friend's from work?

rednicky -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 1:45:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: If I got a whole bunch of responses of genuinely frustrated men who talked about how cruel or unapproachable or cliquey women came off, I would indeed feel that women could change and stand to be a little nicer, whether they are interested or not. And that would be my opinion. If I got answers that didn't have men complaining, which was the case, of course I wouldn't feel women need to change. I agree with Lockit on this one, no one is responsible for how a stranger feels. If a man feels whiny, like "women are bitches" because he can't get anywhere with them, the women do not owe him a damned thing. Why should a woman talk to a man she isn't interested in because it would make him happy? Why should a woman take away from her friends, social interactions, to please some stranger she has no desire to engage with? Here is something i have learned on planet earth, I am not responsible for how other people feel. People need to own their emotional life and quit holding other random people responsible for their emotional states. At this point in my life I am highly resistant to feeling one moment's discomfort to please someone else, why should I? What makes someone else's feelings more important than my own? Why would you expect women to give pity dances to horny men in clubs when they would rather dance with their friend's from work? You misunderstand me. When I say to be nicer, I don't mean give out pity smiles. I said if the women come off as nasty (as in opening scoff constantly, roles her eyes when they make eye contact, laughs at him and points him out to her friends), I'd feel women should 'not' do that. That's my version of nicer.

Twoshoes -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 1:46:11 PM)
Not that hard if you're not trying...

juliaoceania -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 1:57:49 PM)
quote: You misunderstand me. When I say to be nicer, I don't mean give out pity smiles. I said if the women come off as nasty (as in opening scoff constantly, roles her eyes when they make eye contact, laughs at him and points him out to her friends), I'd feel women should 'not' do that. That's my version of nicer. Most women don't do that... I am sure there is a small segment that have done that, but by the time you get out of high school women usually don't. Men can get aggressive with women in clubs/bars. Men grab women,make comments about their bodies, won't take no for an answer, and think that it is acceptable to treat women like sluts just because they are in bars. In fact, in my experience, this sort of behavior is much more prevalent than women ridiculing men... The only time I treated a man less than nice was when he was less than nice.

rednicky -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 2:03:01 PM)
kay

StrongSpirit -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 4:29:32 PM)
I am a man and found the following. 1) Both men and women can be divided into the 'hales' and the 'have nots' when it comes to attracting the opposite gender. 2) There are fewer men that are "haves" for two major reasons: A) The things that women like tend to be harder to acquire (Height, money, power) than the things that men like (boobs, thin body, and did I say boobs) and B) As a result of A, the men that are lucky enough to 'have' are slightly more likely to just settle down and get married. Tall men in particular, if they have any desire, get snapped up quickly. But on the other side, there is a constant influx of women that decided to hunker down and make themselves pretty - lose weight, attend to make up, get surgery. The male have nots don't have quite so easy a time converting. 3) The dating conventions pretty much force men to always be on the prowl and the women to always be on 'stage'. Net result - the male 'haves' get what they want when they want it. They hang back and watch, looking for someone that meets their high standards. If you don't check out their height and wallet, you can't tell the difference between a guy that is a wallflower and a guy looking for someone that is worth his time. The female 'haves' on the other hand are constantly on display, trying to be selected. It makes them look like they are having more fun then they really are. P.S. Unlike me, not all men like to dance. They only go to dances to pick up women. This also complicates the situation, making them look like a wallflower not enjoying himself as compared to the women on the dance floor. If the guy hates dancing, he is doing what he wants to do by hanging in the back and talking.

hausboy -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/11/2010 4:52:55 PM)
I'm still trying to deal with the concept of being over 30 as "Older." I'm single for the first time since college (my wife, who was also my domme, left me after 14 years together) So here I am, I'm 40 years old--I'm a short, bald guy--dating is intimidating! I dated fearlessly in my early 20s and didn't hesitate to ask women out....ask them to dance....whatever. Now? I'm not as confident as I was back then--so the thought of approaching a woman I don't know and asking her out just scares me to death!

NorthernGent -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/12/2010 1:42:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hausboy I'm still trying to deal with the concept of being over 30 as "Older." I'm single for the first time since college (my wife, who was also my domme, left me after 14 years together) So here I am, I'm 40 years old--I'm a short, bald guy--dating is intimidating! I dated fearlessly in my early 20s and didn't hesitate to ask women out....ask them to dance....whatever. Now? I'm not as confident as I was back then--so the thought of approaching a woman I don't know and asking her out just scares me to death! You've nothing to lose.....providing rejection doesn't dent your self-esteem....everything to gain.....

DesFIP -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/13/2010 5:25:07 AM)
Do straight men dance? The only clubs I know of with lots of men dancing are the gay ones. Straight women tend to like to dance, straight men tend not to. Which means that a club is the worst place for a straight male to find a female partner. Plus the loud music prevents conversation and for a meet to turn into more, you have to be able to talk to each other. Clubs are places to pick someone up for a one night stand, not for finding a partner.

Twoshoes -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/13/2010 8:41:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Do straight men dance? The only clubs I know of with lots of men dancing are the gay ones. Straight women tend to like to dance, straight men tend not to. Which means that a club is the worst place for a straight male to find a female partner. Plus the loud music prevents conversation and for a meet to turn into more, you have to be able to talk to each other. Clubs are places to pick someone up for a one night stand, not for finding a partner. Yeah, I like to dance - by myself and with others. I'm not as good as I'd like, sadly.

LadyRian -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/13/2010 3:37:26 PM)
There's a lot of awkwardness. There's a lot of loneliness. People many times know how to talk to people online, but don't know how to approach somebody in the real world. I've noticed a lot of social change since the so called "Tech revolution", and not all of it good. I too put in my time as a professional musician. I played both in clubs, and in bars for over 30 years. I don't have to anymore, thank God, but even playing concert venues and festivals, the social dynamic of today seems to be similar. People are very conversant with electronic communications. Everywhere I go, so many people have a cell phone glued to their head. People used to communicate with the people in their surroundings during the day. Now, there's a few peremptory words to the human being they're interacting with, whilst they jabber away on the phone. And then, there's voice mail. Call just about any professional service you must deal with, and you rarely get a receptionist. You get voice mail. If you're fortunate, you'll get a call back from the person you needed to speak to that day. Our technology makes our lives easier and grants us opportunities we never had before. We have entirely new ways to meet people and relate. But our technology also isolates us, insulates us from the subtleties of human contact, because it's a lot easier to interact via electronic media than it is face to face. Have we become a society of intimate strangers, due to our dependence on technology? I wonder sometimes.I don't think it's just men who have this issue, it's happening to women too.

MsCreme -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/13/2010 4:06:47 PM)
People are people too. Take that as you will. [sm=2cents.gif]

sexyred1 -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/13/2010 9:05:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rednicky I'm not sure if we're not making ourselves clear or if you're just not getting it. No one said anything about women being expected to do anything beyond dance if she asks to dance. Especially me. If I did, please quote it. I don't know why you brought up faults. No one is blaming anyone. This whole thread was just asking why so many guys didn't make a move in a friendly environment. And my friendly, I mean, the women here were looking for fun and not out to, say, hurt a mans pride. Even if she is there to just dance with friends, what's the harm in walking up to her and finding out for sure? And if those guys who choose to be wall flowers genuinely 'do' see some kind of harm in approaching. I will answer your question. When you are very young, everyone goes clubbing and men and women meet every easily, since they are not as jaded as they will be when they get older. So there is much interaction. As you get older, and have more relationships and experiences, the club scene is not all that great. People carry their baggage around and get bitter. The extremely few times I have been to a club in the last few years, I saw the same phenomenon that you saw; women came together and wanted to dance and have fun. Men (I am talking 40-50's) just stood around talking to their friends or all alone and just watched the women, literally all night. Many women flirted with these men, smiled at them, giving them an opening, and still they did not move. Whenever anyone new walked in, the entire wall of men standing there all turned as one to see who walked in. At the end of the night, they all went home alone as did the women. It was amazing, really. I was with a friend who wanted to dance and no men were asking her and she is very attractive. Finally she couldn't take it and asked some guy to dance, just an average guy alone. They spent the entire night dancing and having drinks and talking. At the end of the night, he still had not asked for her number as we were leaving. She went over to him and said, hey I had a good time with you tonight would you like to maybe get together again sometime? HE, who had been divorced over 9 years, after spending the entire night talking to her, said...."Oh yeah, sure, look me up on Match.com". My friend was literally stunned. To think a man who came to a club to ostensibly meet a woman and then he meets one who he hangs out with all night and who shows interest in him, would rather be alone on a Saturday night cruising Match.com. Why? Because although he is just an average looking guy, he apparently believes all the hype that he is should keep waiting for a dream girl to come over. Or, he was not into my friend and wasted both their time. Just another reason why I would not bother going to bars or clubs; I don't need to see a sociological experiment go awry each time.

Twoshoes -> RE: How hard is it for (straight) men? (9/14/2010 4:24:27 AM)
I think most people go to clubs to have a good time and dance, not to find someone. Therefore to avoid the problem mentioned in sexyred1's post and the one described in Lockit's post, I recommend the following. If interested in someone (for dancing or to get to know them), let them know as quickly as possible, as subtly as desired and then get lost. If they want to find you, they will. That way no one gets hounded all night.

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