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RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/14/2010 7:10:57 AM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

You've breached the subject, she's not interested. You somehow have it in your brain that you can sell her on the concept and you want us to back up that opinion. Reality is that she's not interested and pushing the issue will most likely make you both unhappy.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to January)

Post #: 21

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/14/2010 10:06:44 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrAvogadro
I'd be interested to talk to any women who were at one time vanilla, or they believed themselves to be, and found their way to being submissive. What was the trigger, what was effective in the transition, what can I do to help her understand D/s. She thinks I just want to tie her up and beat her.

Out of curiosity, what DO you want to do? Is this a sexual thing or a lifestyle thing? And, WHY did the conversation tank?

Carol made this transition... kind of. We were vanilla. Now we are master/slave. But there's no real kink involved, it's just a question of obedience in all things. For us, this wasn't hard. But we were starting on the platform of a cooperative and healthy marriage. Honestly, if one of us proposed something, the other... even if hesitant, would automatically say, "Well let's give it a try". That's kind of how it went with us. She proposed bottom. I countered with 24/7 TPE. She was hesitant but we decided to give it a go.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to MrAvogadro)

Post #: 22

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/14/2010 11:00:26 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrAvogadro

Long story short, I've been married for a year and change, I've always been into BDSM although rarely acted on my impulses. Anyway, I recently told my wife (who is vanilla) about my interest, and the conversation deteriorated quickly.

I'd be interested to talk to any women who were at one time vanilla, or they believed themselves to be, and found their way to being submissive. What was the trigger, what was effective in the transition, what can I do to help her understand D/s. She thinks I just want to tie her up and beat her.

BDSM chat and porn are no longer doing it for me and I feel like I'm at a bit of a cross roads. Any help would be appreciated.

quote:

I am much more interested in the D/s aspects, which I think are perhaps more difficult for a vanilla to understand.

I'm a little confused as to what you want as well. You say that you're interested in the D/s aspect, but a lot of the interest that you speak about is in porn. I've read your comments and can't tell on My side of the screen if you're interested in the kinky aspect or the authority aspect.

Like it or not, this is bait and switch. You mentioned it prior to your marriage, but it doesn't come across as the same as letting her know that this is the type of marriage that you prefer. Now that you are married, you are trying to explain it to her and that's information that she should have had to base her decision upon. That puts you in the position of living up to the vanilla life that she might have expected, since D/s wasn't incorporated into the courtship in any way. It's the very same thing that I've said often on these forums about My own marriage. My husband isn't submissive and if he no longer wanted Me participating in BDSM, that would be exactly what we'd do. The deal is, we married vanilla and if that is what is best for us, I'll be going back to that original promise.

It's My personal opinion that you should pick up the book and that may help you to explain your position. However, you can't force someone to be submissive who does not want to be. I happen to be a Dominant woman. I can do vanilla, but I'd resent the hell out of anybody who attempted to get Me to submit.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to MrAvogadro)

Post #: 23

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/14/2010 4:19:36 PM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline

To the OP: I have read all your responses and offer this in the spirit of your goals instead of analyzing your situation as BDSM hopeless with a vanilla women you can't even fuck.

I have done a lot of vanilla conversions . . . sometimes it's a simple matter of lead, follow or get out of way. There are a million small things aggressive dominant men do. I do it to strangers, I do it to vanilla prospects, I take control. I tell them what they can do that would please me. I take their hand when we walk and lead them. In short, if you want control, you need to take it and have her follow you, not ask permission. When you are at the point you have her trust and don't have to ask permission over the small stuff, *tell her* this night is special . . . take out a blindfold (or whatever) and tell her your are putting it on her. Start introducing her to all the sweet "slap & tickle" BDSM stuff before you drag an electric chair out of the closet and tell her you're gonna' electrocute her 'till she shits herself.

In my sig is a book link. The Surrendered Wife is an awesome tool for vanillas. It has exercises and other relationship tools for women to learn how to surrender control. Although written by and for a women, the tools in it may be of use for you and/or your wife. Several other books also worth looking at on that list.

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 24

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/15/2010 2:29:21 AM

ranja

Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: January

quote:

What a lot of useless bad attitude advice you got on this thread op,

Yet YOU presume to give advice when you don't even know what vaginismus is? And evidently don't care? Good lord, ranja! Does your superiority even allow you to understand other people's posts? You have a few decent ideas, dear, but they are really just embellishing what other people have already posted.

OP, being obsessed with BDSM porn isn't a good way to understand what realistic D/s is. Neither is it a sign of a deep, loving relationship with your "best friend".

And forcing your wife to be sub is hardly noble, just because that means you're trying to stay within your marriage. As I've said many times in many posts before, if you crudely approach vanilla conversion as an entitlement, you are doomed. There is no magic word.

Your irritation with us for not providing that quick fix is revealing.

January

i am just sick of all the negative shit people come out with on these boards recently
it does not matter at all whether i know what vaginismus is, it seemed clear to me that they have no sex... to me it is important as many people as possible fix their love life as everybody seems to be splitting up over next to nothing only to try again with another loser

to me the advice of a bunch of strangers to leave things well alone or to split up to somebody who asks for advice and ideas to fix things is indeed absolutely useless.

now stop being condescending 'dear' and go and write a book or something.

(in reply to January)

Post #: 25

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/15/2010 10:36:39 AM

GoddessTeaze

Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

Hello MrAvogadro,
Don't you feel welcome on the forum of CM? :D

One question I had is, what have you done on the subject vaginismus ?
Did you see a doctor about this?
Or a sexual counsellor?
Do you know where it comes from?
I would focus on that first before you would go a step further,
or to 'lure' her into D/s. First things first. I've suffered it Myself due
to sexual abuse, and I did overcome it. It's a matter of becoming
more secure about your body, and letting go of fear, so can you
tell what you've done on that part?

You say You love her , and would do anything,
then I would suggest to walk that path first.
Wouldn't it be awesome when she can finally
enjoy her body, and would be able to let go?

I do wish you enough, and if You wish to talk about it in private
You can always email Me.

GoddezzT`

_____________________________

~* The only disability in life is a bad attitude. ~Scott Hamilton*~

~*Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart. ~Kahlil Gibran*~

(in reply to MrAvogadro)

Post #: 26

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/15/2010 6:49:09 PM

MrAvogadro

Posts: 7
Joined: 9/13/2010
Status: offline

Thanks all who responded. I learned a tremendous amount and got some good although, it went in a slightly different direction than I was expecting. Such is life. No need to add anything additional to this thread, as I think enough has been said.

To answer some of the questions that came up, in case people were wondering.

as to vaginismus: Yes to the doctor, yes to sexual counselor, no history of abuse. Was not aware of Botox as an option, but will bring that up with her tonight.

as to changing/converting her: I don't think I said (and if I did, I didn't mean to) that I was going to change her or break up. Really, the thrust of the post was to understand how other vanilla women discovered BDSM.

as to "bait and switch", I I'm not going to leave her if she has no interest in BDSM. I'll continue faithfully living in a very happy relationship. It is NOT a critical part of life, but it is something I'd like to atleast discuss exploring with her... and I was really looking for a better understanding of how I can explain it so she'll understand.

Thanks again all.

(in reply to GoddessTeaze)

Post #: 27

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/15/2010 7:03:31 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I'm a little confused as to how you will reconcile "continue faithfully living in a very happy relationship." with "BDSM chat and porn are no longer doing it for me". Because you can't have it both ways.

Despite that, you still seem to be looking for a secret decoder ring and there isn't one. We give over trust and control when we feel the other person is safe to give that to. Which means you never deciding at the last minute to go drinking after work while dinner overcooks or she worries where you are. You taking the lead in managing your health, weight, exercise instead of carping at her. You operating on a budget etc.

I, like numerous others, have been in a marriage where I would never have given over control, because I couldn't trust him to put my well being first. Hell, I would have been lucky to be tenth on his list. Now I'm with a man who does put me first, who does keep his word in matters large and small. A man who doesn't blow his top when a kid drives into the garage door and I call up frantic, not knowing how to deal with it. Having him patiently calm me down, have me explain exactly what the problem was allowed him to talk me through the repair. Had he listened patiently to the problem and explained I needed a professional I would have been just as happy. It was the patient listening and never insinuating that as this wasn't his fault, he didn't want to be bothered with it that allowed me to learn even more about him not blowing up at me, not taking the day's stresses out on me, showing me through his actions that he deserved my trust and my submission.

You want to remember Harry Truman, he knew that as he was the head of the nation with all the power, he had the ultimate responsibility. The Buck Stops Here. Be the person who wants the responsibilities more than the rights and you'll be a good dominant worth submitting to. Which has nothing to do with kink.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to MrAvogadro)

Post #: 28

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/15/2010 10:48:46 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
The Buck Stops Here. Be the person who wants the responsibilities more than the rights and you'll be a good dominant worth submitting to. Which has nothing to do with kink.

Well that about sums up everything that I think is important about my leadership style *laughs*. There is a reason why, every time on Collarme we get the "responsibility thread", I'm there with "Whatever happens, good or bad, it's my fault." In my mind, to give up responsibility is to give up authority and I'd rather keep the authority.

Insofar as the "good dominant" bit... I think that as always, that's in the eye of the beholder. My own experience suggests that this style has broad appeal though.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 29

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/15/2010 11:53:34 PM

GoddessTeaze

Posts: 1125
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline

Nothing is impossible, where is a will there is a way, so I would say read about Bdsm together, talk about it openly, and try small steps, IF she is interested of course. Communication is the key, so tell her what You would want and expect, and what not, so she has an idea what to expect of You. Like the suggestions You've been given before. If You never try You'll never know,
I do wish You enough :)

GoddezzT`

_____________________________

~* The only disability in life is a bad attitude. ~Scott Hamilton*~

~*Beauty is not in the face; beauty is a light in the heart. ~Kahlil Gibran*~

(in reply to MrAvogadro)

Post #: 30

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/18/2010 4:43:54 PM

ladyseekinglord

Posts: 105
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline

I tend to agree more with MistressRosalyn. My first thought response to the OP was something along the lines of making her feel very, very good and then if she has an ounce of sub in her, it will come out soon enough.

Ending now, but I have been married to a vanilla man for a few years. I don't think I tried to change him as much as I tried to help him discover his inner Dom. Turns out, he really doesn't have one and boy did that suck. I hope it turns out better for you.

_____________________________

"Hold the heart of a slave girl and she will walk through fire for you... but if you cherish it she will dance in the flames."

(in reply to MistressRosalyn)

Post #: 31

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/18/2010 5:06:56 PM

ladyseekinglord

Posts: 105
Joined: 12/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

In my sig is a book link. The Surrendered Wife is an awesome tool for vanillas. It has exercises and other relationship tools for women to learn how to surrender control. Although written by and for a women, the tools in it may be of use for you and/or your wife. Several other books also worth looking at on that list.

Thats funny. I read that book years ago and it was one of the things that helped my conversion from a sharp-tongued, smart-ass with a general, though subconscious, disrespect for men into .. well.. what I am now. I also have liked "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands" as far as more vanilla books go.

Can't believe I'm going to say this.. but you can lead her to water, you just can't make her drink.. Hopefully she's thirsty.

lady

_____________________________

"Hold the heart of a slave girl and she will walk through fire for you... but if you cherish it she will dance in the flames."

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 32

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/18/2010 5:19:15 PM

thishereboi

Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline

quote:

For one, this is not the FIRST time I've mentioned these desires and interests. In fact, we had discussed them several times before marriage during a period of time that my wife suffered from vaginismus... that period goes on today. So, we have not had vaginal intercourse in years.

In the OP you said...

quote:

Anyway, I recently told my wife (who is vanilla) about my interest, and the conversation deteriorated quickly.

So which is it?

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert

This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi

(in reply to MrAvogadro)

Post #: 33

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/18/2010 5:38:42 PM

Stunning

Posts: 76
Joined: 7/16/2004
Status: offline

Here comes a parade of little girls wanting to castigate you. You must be completely at fault.

So you say she married you knowing about your lifestyle. Sounds like she decieved you and held out on you and she must be a horrible person!

See how the internet game is played? You can make anyone a monster!

(in reply to January)

Post #: 34

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/18/2010 6:13:00 PM

January

Posts: 891
Joined: 4/17/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Here comes a parade of little girls wanting to castigate you. You must be completely at fault.

The parade already came and left. I don't think any of 'em were little girls. That would violate TOS.

January

_____________________________

[link: http://www.bookstrand.com/miss-you-sir] Miss You, Sir by January Rowe is available from Siren now! It's my latest smokin' hot bdsm romance.[/link]

(in reply to Stunning)

Post #: 35

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/18/2010 7:23:35 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stunning

Here comes a parade of little girls wanting to castigate you. You must be completely at fault.

So you say she married you knowing about your lifestyle. Sounds like she decieved you and held out on you and she must be a horrible person!

See how the internet game is played? You can make anyone a monster!

Actually before you go insulting people, you might want to read the OP again. He said he married her knowing his interest in bdsm and just RECENTLY told her about his interest. Therefore, she didn't hold anything out on him, but he sure did her!

You are correct though... this online stuff... you can make grown women little girls in your mind and misread things and insult undeserving people because you are at fault. The only monster maker I saw here was you.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to Stunning)

Post #: 36

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/18/2010 9:40:12 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stunning

See how the internet game is played? You can make anyone a monster!

Kewl!!!!!

/Makes Lockit into Bride of Frankenstein/
/Makes thishereboi into Frau Blucher/

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Stunning)

Post #: 37

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/18/2010 9:58:52 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

LOL Steven! I could use some new body parts! Are you going to dress me up too? I think my hair is long enough to do some pretty freaky things with, but I want new boobs... a young hard body... you know. I know this is what you meant because you couldn't be talking about my attitude!

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 38

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/18/2010 10:28:45 PM

AnimusRex

Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

OP-
Are you talking about submission, or kink?

Submission is pretty much how a person's personality is wired; Kink is what people do.

If you value and are excited by a submissive woman, chances are she already has a submissive personality- because, lets face it, you fell in love with her for some reason.

She just may not be kinky.

In my life experience, getting people to try and explore kinky sex is easier than trying to rewire someone's personality.

So if she isn't submissive enough for you, I am not sure what to suggest.

If you just want to get her more kinky and adventurous, there are plenty of ways to go there.

(in reply to MrAvogadro)

Post #: 39

RE: HELP: Conversion from Vanilla wife to submissive - 9/18/2010 10:35:41 PM

AnimusRex

Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline

FWIW, I agree that The Surrendered Wife and Care and Feeding are both good tools to explaining submission to vanillas, although I would phrase it more that it awakens the submissive in those who are wired that way; just pisses off those that aren't.

(in reply to ladyseekinglord)

Post #: 40

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