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Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 7:34:41 AM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline 		I’ve talked to a lot of male submissive/slaves and the one thing that I keep hearing is that they “need” to be in chastity. I won’t pretend to even slightly understand this way of thinking, that’s why I’m asking here. Is an orgasm the on/off switch for a male submissive? Do you loose your sub/slave mindset, even for a little while, after getting off? I’ve heard of female dominants that keep their males in chastity most of the time and on the occasion that they do allow them to get off they then spend a week beating them back into submission. But in the same respect I know of many female sub/slaves that don’t have any issue at all with it, they can get off dozens of times and never loose that state of mind, granted they may loose the ability to walk or stand upright for a bit, but they hold to their sub/slave mindset. I’d be thrilled if someone could explain this to me. I mean other then “it’s the nature of the beast” crap that I keep hearing. If it’s the nature of the beast then where does that put their submission? Does that imply that a male’s submission is more physical then mental? Does your submission stem from sexual desire or need rather then the mental need to serve or be submissive? And if so, where does that leave the female dominant that enjoys a male’s orgasm?

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 7:40:00 AM   
sharainks


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Status: offline 		Chastity may play a role but when I've switched in the past I found that totally controlling the when and how of the male orgasm worked just as well.  After a couple of hours of alternate teasing, and being brought to the edge then let down, it gets through that their orgasm will be when you choose for it to be.  Yes that takes a lot of reading body language and observation but the end result is quite nice.

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 7:52:57 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Honestly, I don't think it's different for men than it is for women in this regard.  Specially for the newbies who haven't really absorbed it all yet.

For some people, kink is about sex, including a kink of submission.  So when the sexual energy has come to its full and spent itself...then the kink is over.  When the juice gets going again, the submission kink clicks back in.

Like any kink, what matters is finding someone that is compatible with you.



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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 7:57:13 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
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Status: offline 		Great post, ShiftedJewel....... I do think many "submissive" males lose said "submission" when the boat leaves the dock, so to speak.
 
I have believed for a long time that a dominant's best path to controlling many males was by controlling their sex. Does that make it a less genuine submission? Possibly. It can also intensify a genuine submissive's service.
 
*sitting back with interest on this one LOL*
 
Level

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 8:32:35 AM   
MichMasochist


Posts: 234
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline 		I can only speak for myself, probably others as well, sexuallity drives my kinkiness. Just as my desire to have a roof over my head and food in my belly drives me to go to work.

Chastity would work only if I know she would be granting my release later at some point.

As a newby, and I strongly suspect it will always be, no sexuality in my kink then it's time to turn on a ball game and crack open a cold one. Or even chant with all you wonderfull kinksters.

Level you're cruel and you know too much. Shhhh!!!!

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 8:36:07 AM   
LostLenore


Posts: 35
Joined: 7/11/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, I've been a domme for about 10 years now, and maybe I missed something major, but it seems like orgasm denial is a new trend.  There are, no doubt, subs who need this kind of physical impetus to remain "in character," but I've always expected and gotten more out of mine.

There seems to be unfounded controversy around surrendering to pleasure versus submission in general.  I think these are two very different things.  The slaves I've known can cum without getting uppity, so I see no reason to keep them in chastity as a means of exerting control.  Likewise, when I feel like giving in to the waves of pleasure a sub has stirred in me, I do not fear that my thrashing, moaning, temporary unconsciousness, etc. will undermine my authority.

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 8:46:13 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

Chastity may play a role but when I've switched in the past I found that totally controlling the when and how of the male orgasm worked just as well.  After a couple of hours of alternate teasing, and being brought to the edge then let down, it gets through that their orgasm will be when you choose for it to be.  Yes that takes a lot of reading body language and observation but the end result is quite nice.


What of all the females whose orgasms are controlled (with teasing, edges, etc.) without such a tool? This does seem to be a male-only thing.

As for shifting out of submission due to an orgasm...that is an odd one to me, and I don't understand how that could occur.  It would seem unless they are role-playing and not full time submitting, they would always feel submissive.

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 8:51:49 AM   
ShiftedJewel


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quote:

As for shifting out of submission due to an orgasm...that is an odd one to me, and I don't understand how that could occur.  It would seem unless they are role-playing and not full time submitting, they would always feel submissive.


See, that's my way of thinking also... but I have talked to so many that have come right out and told me that once they get off it's the testosterone highway all the way and until that "rush" is over with they are just not in the submissive mindset. I just don't understand it I guess, perhaps I'm just talking to the wrong people?

Sorry, typo... grrrrr

< Message edited by ShiftedJewel -- 4/23/2006 9:16:40 AM >

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 9:20:57 AM   
ScooterTrash


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From: Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sharainks

Chastity may play a role but when I've switched in the past I found that totally controlling the when and how of the male orgasm worked just as well.  After a couple of hours of alternate teasing, and being brought to the edge then let down, it gets through that their orgasm will be when you choose for it to be.  Yes that takes a lot of reading body language and observation but the end result is quite nice.
I agree that is a tool, but with all due respect, I think perhaps you missed the point of her question however. Her point is that when a female submissive orgasms, their demeanor doesn't change, they are still submissive...while seemingly, by their own admission, when a male submissive orgasms, their submission is basically broken until they get that "longing" desire back.

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 9:21:31 AM   
MichMasochist


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

I’ve talked to a lot of male submissive/slaves and the one thing that I keep hearing is that they “need” to be in chastity. I won’t pretend to even slightly understand this way of thinking, that’s why I’m asking here. Is an orgasm the on/off switch for a male submissive? Do you loose your sub/slave mindset, even for a little while, after getting off? I’ve heard of female dominants that keep their males in chastity most of the time and on the occasion that they do allow them to get off they then spend a week beating them back into submission.



Maybe it's just about the beating part? It's like intercourse let me rest abit and I'll be ready again. Maybe for others once climax is acheived it's over. Maybe all this kinkiness is just an evolutionary trait? The male becomes submissive long enough to propagate the species then switches back to solitary nature.


quote:


But in the same respect I know of many female sub/slaves that don’t have any issue at all with it, they can get off dozens of times and never loose that state of mind, granted they may loose the ability to walk or stand upright for a bit, but they hold to their sub/slave mindset.


I find that this society, male dominated, breads women into the submissive role, if not being submissive automatically by nature of the female beast. How often does a woman surrender herself to the man during sex?


quote:


I’d be thrilled if someone could explain this to me. I mean other then “it’s the nature of the beast” crap that I keep hearing. If it’s the nature of the beast then where does that put their submission? Does that imply that a male’s submission is more physical then mental? Does your submission stem from sexual desire or need rather then the mental need to serve or be submissive? And if so, where does that leave the female dominant that enjoys a male’s orgasm?


Let me know if this answers your question. For me it is mostly physical yet it is mental as well but to a much lesser degree. Just as there are women I will never have an ounce of physical desire for, there are women for whom I will never feel the desire to submit to or serve no matter what. Yet I do find myself being helpful and gentilemanly toward a woman simply because she is a woman.

Is my submission sexual? That would be a clear definate yes. But there really needs to be a personal, emotional, connection with the woman for it to be a truely satify experience

As for the female orgasm, not only is it the right and priviledge of the domme to have as many orgasm as she wants, when she pleases, as well as in the manner inwhich she desires. I feel that in my submission to the woman dominating me, is that her orgasm is a must happen event. I won't kid you mine as well, but only after she has had hers and chooses to reward me in a manner that she pleases. To put it simply, If a domme doesn't climax during my submission to her, then I personally feel like I haven't been dominated, controled, or used by her.

Mich






< Message edited by MichMasochist -- 4/23/2006 9:25:49 AM >

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 9:21:45 AM   
TeeGO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

I’ve talked to a lot of male submissive/slaves and the one thing that I keep hearing is that they “need” to be in chastity. I won’t pretend to even slightly understand this way of thinking, that’s why I’m asking here. Is an orgasm the on/off switch for a male submissive? Do you loose your sub/slave mindset, even for a little while, after getting off? I’ve heard of female dominants that keep their males in chastity most of the time and on the occasion that they do allow them to get off they then spend a week beating them back into submission. But in the same respect I know of many female sub/slaves that don’t have any issue at all with it, they can get off dozens of times and never loose that state of mind, granted they may loose the ability to walk or stand upright for a bit, but they hold to their sub/slave mindset. I’d be thrilled if someone could explain this to me. I mean other then “it’s the nature of the beast” crap that I keep hearing. If it’s the nature of the beast then where does that put their submission? Does that imply that a male’s submission is more physical then mental? Does your submission stem from sexual desire or need rather then the mental need to serve or be submissive? And if so, where does that leave the female dominant that enjoys a male’s orgasm?

Don't give me a ticket to ride on that train please.  Enforced chastity can play a role, a great lever of control.  But the long time/full chaste lifestyle holds zero appeal to me.  In fact I believe that would cause me to get resentful, angry, and very un-submissive over time.

As for the orgasm?  Yes there is a certain "down" time for a male after.  We're talking minutes, not hours.  I don't see how that can change who you are though.

That's my take on it.

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 9:29:29 AM   
ownedgirlie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

As for shifting out of submission due to an orgasm...that is an odd one to me, and I don't understand how that could occur.  It would seem unless they are role-playing and not full time submitting, they would always feel submissive.


See, that's my way of thinking also... but I have talked to so many that have come right out and told me that once they get off it's the testosterone highway all the way and until that "rush" is over with they are just not in the submissive mindset. I just don't understand it I guess, perhaps I'm just talking to the wrong people?

Sorry, typo... grrrrr


Maybe it's a hormone shift that occurs afterwards.  But then I am not male, nor a hormone specialist, so what the hell do I know, lol.

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 9:36:33 AM   
MichMasochist


Posts: 234
Joined: 12/23/2005
Status: offline 		I agree TeeGo, the longer I go without the more aggressive and even hostile I start to feel.

I read somewhere that the down time is shorter for younger physically fit males. Increases to one to four hours as a male ages and or become less fit. With high blood pressure, heart desease, and diateties resaulting in down time in terms of days .

Gotta go I think I need some exercise. :P


Mich

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 9:41:34 AM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline 		i think it relates to the male sexual drive.  As a general rule (as there are always exceptions) i think men are driven more by sex then women.  Women seem to be driven by mental.  Generally to men sex is sex.  Women (generally) it means alot more.. its more of mental thing.  Men dont generally have to be there "mentally" like most women do.  Generally its mental for women and phsycial for men.  So i suppose hearing what you have said doesnt really suprise me.  It seems to fit into the mold of my generalization. 

Ever heard the saying "put a flag over her face and do her for the country"?   Granted i'm sure a man could oblige his country like this.. i dont really see a woman being able to do it. 

As for teasing and denial, and chastity.  Arg!  Himself seems to love it.  Absolutetly loves.. it gives him a great big kick and he chuckles all merrily and evilly.  Course i dont get it.  All these new ways he's going to tease and deny, chastity belts, chastity piercings..   LOL  maybe its just men?

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 9:47:15 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MichMasochist

I can only speak for myself, probably others as well, sexuallity drives my kinkiness. Just as my desire to have a roof over my head and food in my belly drives me to go to work.

Chastity would work only if I know she would be granting my release later at some point.

As a newby, and I strongly suspect it will always be, no sexuality in my kink then it's time to turn on a ball game and crack open a cold one. Or even chant with all you wonderfull kinksters.

Level you're cruel and you know too much. Shhhh!!!!


LOL........ MM, I'm only here at collarme to help......
 
Level

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 9:52:03 AM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl
Ever heard the saying "put a flag over her face and do her for the country"?  


*laughing here*....... I actually haven't ever heard that before.......

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 10:03:35 AM   
ShiftedJewel


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quote:

Is my submission sexual? That would be a clear definate yes. But there really needs to be a personal, emotional, connection with the woman for it to be a truely satify experience


I truly appreciate your response, and I understand what you are saying here. We were having this discussion here last night.. which is the reason behind the post, and one of the things I brought up and am still wondering about has a lot to do with your response. You state that to be truly satisfying there has to be an emotional bond with the woman you are submitting to.. and I think that's great, that's the way I feel as well... But.... Just as an example here, ok? If a female slave says she is just not in the mood (not that I see that happening) and the male owner wants to have sex anyway, well, lets be real here, there are countless lubes on the market and whether she's in the mood or not she is still "usable"... right? But, if a male slave is just plain not in the mood his "usability" (you like my new words here?) is questionable. So, now you have to at least get him physically stimulated enough that the female dominant can have sex... do you see where I am going here?

No, I don't expect male submissives to be machines, I love the humanity and masculinity of men, what I'm asking is whether or not there are different submissive mindsets between males and females... or even between different male sub/slaves? Is it as common as it appears to be that men are motivated strictly by sexual interaction as opposed to pure mental enjoyment of simply serving? And does that mindset change all that much simply because the sexual desire has been met?
 
quote:

Don't give me a ticket to ride on that train please.  Enforced chastity can play a role, a great lever of control.  But the long time/full chaste lifestyle holds zero appeal to me.  In fact I believe that would cause me to get resentful, angry, and very un-submissive over time.

As for the orgasm?  Yes there is a certain "down" time for a male after.  We're talking minutes, not hours.  I don't see how that can change who you are though.


I really appreciate your input TeeGO, and I agree, I don't see how that can change who you are either, yet I've spoken to so many that tell me that it does indeed change their mindset for long periods of time, and by that I mean a week or so. Personally, I could never tell someone that they can forget ever getting off again. First, I'm realistic, I don't and can't control their dreams and shit happens. Secondly, I see it as human nature. And, here's the biggie for me... I'm empathic... yes, I feed off the emotions of those around me, and when a man gets off there is such an amazing burst of emotion from him that I "feel", it's nothing short of an addiction for me. Ok.... new kink here... lol

I really don't want to sound crude here, but it isn't all that difficult to get a man hard (under normal circumstances that is). But to bring him to a point where he no longer has any control and he's gonna get off whether he wants to or not... That is not so easy but oh so fun to do. There is nothing, as far as I'm concerned, that is more fun then building up, bringing down, then building up... over and over, until they have no choice in the matter... It's as exciting to me as it is to them.

LMAO... who says female dominants don't talk about kink? 

I can see some "down time", that isn't an issue. But from what I've heard direct from the horses mouth is that there is a longer duration, a least a few days, where if I were to say "Get me a soda" I would be met with that all so irritating "sigh.... fine" attitude until they get their head back into that submissive mindset.

I'm not arguing the point here, honestly, I'm just trying to understand.

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 10:06:35 AM   
Smythe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TeeGO

quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

If it’s the nature of the beast then where does that put their submission? Does that imply that a male’s submission is more physical then mental? Does your submission stem from sexual desire or need rather then the mental need to serve or be submissive? And if so, where does that leave the female dominant that enjoys a male’s orgasm?


Don't give me a ticket to ride on that train please. Enforced chastity can play a role, a great lever of control. But the long time/full chaste lifestyle holds zero appeal to me. In fact I believe that would cause me to get resentful, angry, and very un-submissive over time.

As for the orgasm? Yes there is a certain "down" time for a male after. We're talking minutes, not hours. I don't see how that can change who you are though.

That's my take on it.



This has been exactly my experience with male subs, teego. For some reason, submission and eagerness to please is at a high point before orgasm, and then there is a brief recovery. I don't find anything wrong with this, but only try to use it for my own purposes in order to maximize how much fun I am having.

As for long term chastity, I have heard many say that after a long enough period of enforced chastity, desire wanes, and the boy will become ...hmm.. is "de-sexualized" a word? I think that the idea of males being kept in chastity and allowed out once a year for a little treat spurt is mostly stuff of fiction.

The best thing about chastity is playing with it...teasing, allowing satisfaction at random and unpredictable times, and so on, always letting the male know that the control resides with me...not that he will never be permitted to spurt.

Smythe



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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 10:08:42 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

I can see some "down time", that isn't an issue. But from what I've heard direct from the horses mouth is that there is a longer duration, a least a few days, where if I were to say "Get me a soda" I would be met with that all so irritating "sigh.... fine" attitude until they get their head back into that submissive mindset.

I'm not arguing the point here, honestly, I'm just trying to understand.


Without being a mind-reader of said person, I would not consider them to be submissive. As you said, a short "down time" is one thing... but days? Nope.
 
Level

< Message edited by Level -- 4/23/2006 10:09:01 AM >

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RE: Is a male orgasm an on/off switch to submission? - 4/23/2006 10:22:44 AM   
TeeGO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe
The best thing about chastity is playing with it...teasing, allowing satisfaction at random and unpredictable times, and so on, always letting the male know that the control resides with me...not that he will never be permitted to spurt.

Smythe



Now that I can be onboard with.  Control, or lack thereof, is what it's all about.

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