conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha

conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (9/17/2010 8:08:51 AM)
"In the US, people ... spend time and money supporting the Republicans. Unlike in Germany, in America, which never had a Hitler, being 'right-wing' is not taboo. 'Right-wing' represents Reagan, religion, the free market, individualism, patriotism and small government. In reality, it is an impossible mixture: National pride, God and tradition are conservative 'us' values. The profit motive, competition and a weak state are 'me-first' sentiments ... . But this mixture of conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- that's the difference to Germany."/snip http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,717845,00.html What do you make of that??

SL4V3M4YB3 -> RE: conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (9/17/2010 8:54:11 AM)
There is right wing and then there is far right. Germany was a Christian nation before WW2 started, I don't really understand how 'God and Tradition' is toxic in one situation and non-toxic in another. Take anything to the extreme and you'll end up with a mess.

DomYngBlk -> RE: conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (9/17/2010 11:17:07 AM)
So Nazis are the only ones for National Pride, God and Tradition?

joether -> RE: conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (9/17/2010 11:46:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy "In the US, people ... spend time and money supporting the Republicans. Unlike in Germany, in America, which never had a Hitler, being 'right-wing' is not taboo. 'Right-wing' represents Reagan, religion, the free market, individualism, patriotism and small government. In reality, it is an impossible mixture: National pride, God and tradition are conservative 'us' values. The profit motive, competition and a weak state are 'me-first' sentiments ... . But this mixture of conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- that's the difference to Germany."/snip http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,717845,00.html What do you make of that?? Oh, the USA never had a Hitler-wannbe, eh? How about Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin? Or the POW Camp in Andersonville, GA. Now compare Andersonville, GA to...Auschwitz. Notice anything? American does well, when liberals, moderates, and conservatives (regardless of their political party), can come to the debate/discussion table, and work to make a good plan. There will be arguements, but they are based on the issue, not personal attacks. Nor global attacks (example: all conservatives/liberals are commie, mutant, facist, stupid, ugly, weridos). When we go to the bargaining table, there is both 'give' and 'take'. Side A gets something of equal, or near equal value as Side B. When one side, decides, it's all 'take' and no 'give', that's when problems start setting in. If Side A is willing to 'give and take' and Side B, is not, its up to Side B to explain, in a rational and objective manner, for the problems. If its workable, another set of comprisies could be made, to bring the sides back together again. If not, its up to Side B, to find a way to come 1/2 way again. We observed this with the Health Care debate over 14 months, from start to finish. Democrats went to the Republicans several times and basically asked 'What would it take for you to give us votes on this bill"? The Republicans replied with their answers. So, the Democrats went back, and grudgingly, wrote those ideas in to the bill, and tried to pass it. The moment those Republicans voted against the bill, they lost all credibility with Democrats. What do you think would happen, the next time Democrats are at the bargaining table with Republicans? Do you think Democrats will be in the mood to 'give and take' when they figure, the Republicans are all 'take'? Course not, they'll just shove things through with a super majority (and hence, filibuster proof agenda). Sooner or later, the sides will be flipped, and Democrats, can pull the same exact crap, the Republicans did in recent memory. Is that really how you want our goverment to operate? A Zero-Sum game?

NorthernGent -> RE: conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (9/17/2010 12:35:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy "In the US, people ... spend time and money supporting the Republicans. Unlike in Germany, in America, which never had a Hitler, being 'right-wing' is not taboo. 'Right-wing' represents Reagan, religion, the free market, individualism, patriotism and small government. In reality, it is an impossible mixture: National pride, God and tradition are conservative 'us' values. The profit motive, competition and a weak state are 'me-first' sentiments ... . But this mixture of conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- that's the difference to Germany."/snip http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,717845,00.html What do you make of that?? The free market isn't a right wing principle...... Individualism isn't a right wing principle...... Competition isn't a 'me-first' principle.... In short.....those things are liberal principles that were fought for in WW1...fought for by the English in an attempt to spread English values at the expense of more conservative German principles.... What do I make of it? long story short....load of bollocks....

NorthernGent -> RE: conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (9/17/2010 12:37:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk So Nazis are the only ones for National Pride, God and Tradition? Well....yeah...any system...such as the Nazi system....which could only possibly ruin the country.....which the Geramn conservative elites realised at an early position....is in line with national pride.

FirmhandKY -> RE: conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (9/17/2010 12:41:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether American does well, when liberals, moderates, and conservatives (regardless of their political party), can come to the debate/discussion table, and work to make a good plan. There will be arguements, but they are based on the issue, not personal attacks. Nor global attacks (example: all conservatives/liberals are commie, mutant, facist, stupid, ugly, weridos). When we go to the bargaining table, there is both 'give' and 'take'. Side A gets something of equal, or near equal value as Side B. When one side, decides, it's all 'take' and no 'give', that's when problems start setting in. If Side A is willing to 'give and take' and Side B, is not, its up to Side B to explain, in a rational and objective manner, for the problems. If its workable, another set of comprisies could be made, to bring the sides back together again. If not, its up to Side B, to find a way to come 1/2 way again. We observed this with the Health Care debate over 14 months, from start to finish. Democrats went to the Republicans several times and basically asked 'What would it take for you to give us votes on this bill"? The Republicans replied with their answers. So, the Democrats went back, and grudgingly, wrote those ideas in to the bill, and tried to pass it. The moment those Republicans voted against the bill, they lost all credibility with Democrats. What do you think would happen, the next time Democrats are at the bargaining table with Republicans? Do you think Democrats will be in the mood to 'give and take' when they figure, the Republicans are all 'take'? Course not, they'll just shove things through with a super majority (and hence, filibuster proof agenda). Sooner or later, the sides will be flipped, and Democrats, can pull the same exact crap, the Republicans did in recent memory. Is that really how you want our goverment to operate? A Zero-Sum game? Some good points, joether. I could quibble about some of them (such as reversing the "Dem's" and the "Repubs" in a different example), but overall I'm in agreement. The question is, what has happened to men and women of principal? Firm

FirmhandKY -> RE: conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (9/17/2010 12:49:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pahunkboy "In the US, people ... spend time and money supporting the Republicans. Unlike in Germany, in America, which never had a Hitler, being 'right-wing' is not taboo. 'Right-wing' represents Reagan, religion, the free market, individualism, patriotism and small government. In reality, it is an impossible mixture: National pride, God and tradition are conservative 'us' values. The profit motive, competition and a weak state are 'me-first' sentiments ... . But this mixture of conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- that's the difference to Germany."/snip http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,717845,00.html What do you make of that?? I like this quote better: "Obama has underestimated the frustration in the country and the power of the Tea Party movement, which gives the prevailing disillusionment a platform and a voice. It is by far the most vibrant political force in America. Obama's left-of-center coalition, which got young people and intellectuals involved and which appealed to a majority of women, blacks and Latinos, has evaporated into nothing." Firm

rulemylife -> RE: conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (9/17/2010 4:33:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY I like this quote better: "Obama has underestimated the frustration in the country and the power of the Tea Party movement, which gives the prevailing disillusionment a platform and a voice. It is by far the most vibrant political force in America. Obama's left-of-center coalition, which got young people and intellectuals involved and which appealed to a majority of women, blacks and Latinos, has evaporated into nothing." Firm The problem is "the prevailing disillusionment" is just that, disillusionment with no coherent basis and no solutions other than to piss and moan and worship at the altar of Beck and Palin. The teabaggers don't have to worry about "evaporating into nothing" because they never had anything to begin with, other than disliking Obama and a cult-like devotion to whatever insane mutterings come out of Beck's mouth.

thornhappy -> RE: conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (9/17/2010 5:26:54 PM)
Yeah, that whole "only the right wing loves their country, is patriotic, moral, etc. etc." thing's a load of crap fer sure. Oh yeah, and left-wingers are traitors, don'cha know. Yup. Better round us up and slap us in those FEMA camps.

Fellow -> RE: conservative values and neoliberalism works well in America, where it transcends social class -- tha (9/17/2010 5:55:26 PM)
I think, what is happening is largely Obama's fault. His election was a bright moment, I feel sorry for him.

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