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AnimusRex -> GOP= Confederate Party (9/18/2010 9:26:34 PM)

One of my favorite blogs has a running commentary on how the Republican Party has been overtaken by the spiritual heirs of the Confederate Party.

The thesis is that the "Southern Strategy" was more complete than anyone thought. The Confederacy embraced and coopted the Democratic Party from the end of the Civil War until Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act; and then, homeless and directionless, the Confederacy was embraced and welcomed into the Republican Party, first as useful tools, until now, when they have taken over completely.

Comparisons-
The Confederacy/ GOP is vehemently nativist, opposed to labor rights, convinced of social Darwinism, scornful of the poor, and worshipful of money and priviledge.


[image]local://upfiles/280232/ADD74E1D06A640E4BF5B6B2B9A9FA8AD.jpg[/image]



Sanity -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/18/2010 9:32:42 PM)


You leftists... [:D]

Just keep playing that desperate, tired, old worn out race card, and keep getting the shit kicked right out of you, and keep wondering why.

Lower taxes, lower deficits, a good business climate and limited and responsible government are as good for black families as they are for white families, and most people get that.

Which, thats why the polls are reading like they do.



Kirata -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/18/2010 10:03:38 PM)

Well as far as I can tell, he's right about one thing. The Republican Party is dead.

Or maybe more accurately, it's been "dismembered". [:D]

K.



popeye1250 -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/18/2010 11:14:37 PM)

Yup, the Dems are in ~panic~ mode way early this cycle
The forensics in Nov-Dec should be very interesting..



Malkinius -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/18/2010 11:42:24 PM)

{fast reply}

Greetings all....

If my memory is correct, wasn't the Ku Klux Klan founded by former Confederate Democrats to do something not only about the newly freed blacks but the carpetbagging Republicans from the north? I also recall Governor George Wallace being a Democrat. So were the other southern anti-segregationists of the time. All or almost all were Democrats. The southern states were almost all totally controlled by Democrats at the time as well. In fact, the Democrats in the southern US states are the literal descendants of the Confederate politicians and leadership. I do remember that much from US history classes. It makes it rather interesting that a few people equate the Republican party with the Confederacy, KKK and racism and yet they were all originally Democrats.

History is a funny thing. We may not always know why something happened but for many things we can prove what did happen. Well, those who study history can as opposed to those who make up whatever suits their prejudices or the way they wish things had happened.

Be well all....

Malkinius



AnimusRex -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/18/2010 11:46:59 PM)

Malkinius-
You are correct-
The KKK and the Confederates did control the Democratic Party from the Civil War until the Civil Rights Act.

You notice I mentioned this prominently in my original post.

At which time, (1965) Lyndon Johnson commented that the Democratic party lost the South for a generation. he was wrong. They lost it for a bit longer than that, since the Republican Party is now dominated and controlled by southern and rural whites.




Malkinius -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/19/2010 1:31:45 AM)

Greetings AnimusRex.....

I don't know that it is or is not. The generalization that all Republicans are rural and all Democrats are urban is demonstrably false. Lots of both in both places. That still doesn't change my statement that the Democrats are the literal descendants of the confederacy, the clan and the main supporters of racism. I can also make a pretty good argument that that hasn't changed at the top political levels. The top Democrats, until Obama, were all white and they certainly treat blacks as nothing more than a guaranteed voting block that they only have to sometimes pander to and keep afraid of the Republicans to keep under their control and voting as their Massa's command.

That last point is something that has bothered me for many years. I don't like any group being treated as too stupid to think for themselves and who needs self-appointed "leaders" to tell them what to do, where to go and how to vote. THAT, to me, is extremely racist. Which is really saying that black leaders are being racist towards their own people for their own gain. All of which looks to me like the Democrats are still the party of the Confederacy, which even you seem to admit it was and the Republicans were the party of the anti-confederacy. I just don't see that it ever really changed.

Be well....

Malkinius



DomKen -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/19/2010 5:05:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius

Greetings AnimusRex.....

I don't know that it is or is not. The generalization that all Republicans are rural and all Democrats are urban is demonstrably false. Lots of both in both places. That still doesn't change my statement that the Democrats are the literal descendants of the confederacy, the clan and the main supporters of racism. I can also make a pretty good argument that that hasn't changed at the top political levels. The top Democrats, until Obama, were all white and they certainly treat blacks as nothing more than a guaranteed voting block that they only have to sometimes pander to and keep afraid of the Republicans to keep under their control and voting as their Massa's command.

That last point is something that has bothered me for many years. I don't like any group being treated as too stupid to think for themselves and who needs self-appointed "leaders" to tell them what to do, where to go and how to vote. THAT, to me, is extremely racist. Which is really saying that black leaders are being racist towards their own people for their own gain. All of which looks to me like the Democrats are still the party of the Confederacy, which even you seem to admit it was and the Republicans were the party of the anti-confederacy. I just don't see that it ever really changed.

Be well....

Malkinius

You fail to acknowledge that all the segregationists who stayed in politics after about 1980 switched parties or were always Republicans. Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond, Haley Barbour, Trent Lott etc.



servantforuse -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/19/2010 5:49:21 AM)

Lets not forget Democrat Al Gore Sr. who voted aginst the civil rights act of 1964, and of course Democrat and KKK member Robert Byrd in that list.



ClassIsInSession -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/19/2010 6:00:19 AM)

Let's also not forget the late Ted Kennedy publically calling an African American woman a gorilla, and Hillary Clinton publically saying Ghandi could come to America and work in a 7-11. Now who is the racist?

I think the problem here is the brush is a little too broad. People affiliate with parties for a wide variety of reasons, and perhaps the most socially conscious and discerning of all are the Independents. People are far too multi-faceted to generally assess assumptions based on party affiliation.

There are racists in both sides of the aisle, just like there are gays and straights, Christians and athiests...and any other label you want to apply.

In my life I've been both a Democrat and a Republican. I don't need to grab onto either label now...I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal....and if that fits any "term" it would be libertarian, but I don't agree with everything in that group either..

Instead of looking for differences, you might make more change in the world if you find out where you agree.



RacerJim -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/19/2010 6:39:41 AM)

"If you have no record to run on, you paint your opponent as someone to run from." -- Barack Hussein Obama, 2008 DNC Nomination acceptance speech.



Lucylastic -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/19/2010 6:50:42 AM)

that works well for all these teabaggers too dont you think???\
no experience? now wheres the squeals of indignation.?? a deathly silence
all I hear is arseholes puckering, scared religious pasty ones




DomYngBlk -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/20/2010 7:25:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius

Greetings AnimusRex.....

I don't know that it is or is not. The generalization that all Republicans are rural and all Democrats are urban is demonstrably false. Lots of both in both places. That still doesn't change my statement that the Democrats are the literal descendants of the confederacy, the clan and the main supporters of racism. I can also make a pretty good argument that that hasn't changed at the top political levels. The top Democrats, until Obama, were all white and they certainly treat blacks as nothing more than a guaranteed voting block that they only have to sometimes pander to and keep afraid of the Republicans to keep under their control and voting as their Massa's command.

That last point is something that has bothered me for many years. I don't like any group being treated as too stupid to think for themselves and who needs self-appointed "leaders" to tell them what to do, where to go and how to vote. THAT, to me, is extremely racist. Which is really saying that black leaders are being racist towards their own people for their own gain. All of which looks to me like the Democrats are still the party of the Confederacy, which even you seem to admit it was and the Republicans were the party of the anti-confederacy. I just don't see that it ever really changed.

Be well....

Malkinius


If your theory is correct how do you explain that all of the Old South votes republican instead of democrat? If you can make that argument you might be onto something. Otherwise I think that AR is correct.



Hillwilliam -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/20/2010 11:26:26 AM)

There's an old saying in politics.  "A Southern Democrat is typically more conservative than a Northern Republican"

Apply that to a lot of the above posts and things will make a bit more sense.



slvemike4u -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/20/2010 11:28:50 AM)

Its an "old saying" fpr a reason......political realities have changed.



slvemike4u -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/20/2010 11:30:09 AM)

My bad....computer glitch.



DomYngBlk -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/20/2010 11:42:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

There's an old saying in politics.  "A Southern Democrat is typically more conservative than a Northern Republican"

Apply that to a lot of the above posts and things will make a bit more sense.


So you are saying that most elected officials in the south are Democrats?



Malkinius -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/20/2010 2:42:21 PM)

Greetings....

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomYngBlk
If your theory is correct how do you explain that all of the Old South votes republican instead of democrat? If you can make that argument you might be onto something. Otherwise I think that AR is correct.


It is not a theory. The decent of those groups goes to the Democrat party. Why did the south change? I don't know that it changed, and yes it has changed a lot since the 60's, as much as the Democratic party changed and became something the southern Democrats no longer wanted to be associated with. To put it simply, the party moved too far left for them so they switched parties. That is the current reason why the south is mostly Republican. Note....mostly, not all Republican. There are some very large Democratic locations in the south, they are just not state-wide any more.

So....if you want to say there is a continuation for some individuals, I will certainly agree. The OP said party, not individuals and that is the point I disagree with. It simply isn't true historically or factually. Political parties do shift over time. Sometimes groups break off and form their own parties because of that. The Libertarians mostly formed out of part of the Republican party with some assist from dissatisfied Democrats. The Green party is mostly a splinter from the Democratic party. These things happen and most splinters die out after an election cycle or two.

Be well....

Malkinius



AnimusRex -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/20/2010 6:29:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius
To put it simply, the party moved too far left for them so they switched parties. That is the current reason why the south is mostly Republican.


Thats the reason? Southern Democrats switched because they favored, oh, lets say, the gold standard, or decided that the Democrats were wrong on the capital gains tax?

Um, yeah.

In order for that to be a valid theory, you would have to accept that it was purely coincidence that the big switch of the South from Dem To Republican occurred almost immediately after 1965, when the Civil Rights Act was passed.

Funny, that.



Malkinius -> RE: GOP= Confederate Party (9/21/2010 1:43:37 AM)

Greetings....

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malkinius
To put it simply, the party moved too far left for them so they switched parties. That is the current reason why the south is mostly Republican.


Thats the reason? Southern Democrats switched because they favored, oh, lets say, the gold standard, or decided that the Democrats were wrong on the capital gains tax?

Um, yeah.

In order for that to be a valid theory, you would have to accept that it was purely coincidence that the big switch of the South from Dem To Republican occurred almost immediately after 1965, when the Civil Rights Act was passed.

Funny, that.


You can, of course, cite the election statistics for the 6-8 states which are usually thought of as the "south" to prove they immediately switched after 1965? Immediately being defined in this case as the next election cycle or say six years. Didn't think so. Do so and get back to us when you can show the numbers of Governors, Senators and House Representatives who changed and when. I think federal offices should be able to prove a trend, don't you? Then you can explain how that statement of yours contradicts the statement you quoted?

When you can support your claim with real data, get back to us. Otherwise you have proven less than nothing. All I have to prove is that yes, you quoted my opinion correctly. <evil grin> I never said what they felt went too far left....because I am really not all that sure.

Be well....

Malkinius



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