RE: Question about the elections... (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> RE: Question about the elections... (9/19/2010 9:43:20 AM)

What you have to understand, Tazzy, is just how carefully crafted these districts tend to be. Realistically, only 10-15% of the seats are even considered in play in a cycle this dynamic. The other 85-90% are "safe seats." Usually it's less than 10%. My Congressman is one of those running unopposed for his re-election.

The biggest swing in history (1884) only involved about 25%. As I said, I'm not ok with what we have on this front.

edit to add for the snarkies, that's history of the US system.




ClassIsInSession -> RE: Question about the elections... (9/19/2010 9:58:32 AM)

Wow....the idea in our government has always been to avoid having a majority. This is called checks and balances and what it does is slow the legislative process down. This is a good thing, because you quit having 2800 page documents passed that no one has read.

The last 2 Presidents have had the house and senate tilted one way or another, and in less than 12 years we've seen the country go straight to hell.

This is why the "Founders" envisioned the process of legislating as something that should be very slow and difficult.

Our problem now isn't one of not enough legislation but of far too much legislation. If we simply killed 90% of existing legislation and went back to essentially the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, we would see a lot of our current problems begin to solve themselves.

To counter Louve's comment about how our country would fall apart if the Tea Party gained control, I have to disagree with you. The point isn't to collect more of less taxes in the sense of keeping infrastructure viable, tax breaks don't cost the government anything, it just means they have to pare down the programs and run themselves more efficiently. Out nation already spends more money per student on education and we have fallen behind several countries that get better results on less. As to privatization, in a free market, the responsibility of the consumer is to dictate prices by where you spend your money. We've had a lot of artifical stimulation in our economics for quite a long time, the first being the Federal Reserve and the fiat money they produce which allows the government to squander it easily because they simply print more. Consumers have done the same thing by living far beyond their means with credit.

One thing I can tell you for certain. There isn't a single thing the government does that is cost effective. You always wind up paying premium price for lack luster results.

One of the greatest things I've seen in government in the last 20 years was introduced by Bill Clinton. That was line item veto and I wish it had been permanent. If you read Obama's health care bill...which of course no politicians really did before they voted on it, you'll find all sorts of add on legislation in it that has absolutely nothing to do with health care. The same thing happened under Bush, so I'm not taking a partisan stance on this. Any town idiot can sign a yay or nay on a document without reading it, but it doesn't serve the interest of the people they represent, and it is effectively taxation without representation which is why our "Founders" had a revolution to begin with.

I think really, as a society we are ready for what I think of as "a la carte' government. Imagine, if you will, if all government programs were set up to run for 1 year, and all legislation was posted for every American to read. You would then decide which programs you wish to support and which you don't, and allocate the percentage of your income appropriately. Some legislation and programs would die, some would thrive, some would run for a year, others for decades. But ultimately, the interests of the nation collectively would be served.

While some may scoff at this, consider that in the last decade, we've seen a much higher level of sophistication from a growing body of people in this country as the internet has provided a much closer look at what is actually going on with our government. There is more public awareness than ever before...at least in our collective memory.




TheHeretic -> RE: Question about the elections... (9/19/2010 10:46:11 AM)

Here you go, Tazzy. This is a nice little article about how these districts get constructed. Be sure to click on the 'slideshow' option for a graphic illustration of just how screwed up it can get.

http://www.slate.com/id/2208216/pagenum/all/#p2

Also, note the rule about racial distribution, to get an idea of just how useless the President's attempts to get the black voters motivated is going to be.




tazzygirl -> RE: Question about the elections... (9/19/2010 10:48:13 AM)

I understand the concept of gerrymandering.. something i am opposed too myself. Personally, i believe in all but local elections, it should be statewide, not by "districts" drawn to enable certain groups to keep control.

But, you may want to check your link, Rich.

~grins

It brings me back here.




pahunkboy -> RE: Question about the elections... (9/19/2010 10:50:47 AM)

One question that comes up-

what is the breaking point- and what then?




TheHeretic -> RE: Question about the elections... (9/19/2010 11:13:28 AM)

LOL. Link corrected, Tazzy.

File that under "my bad." [;)]




DomKen -> RE: Question about the elections... (9/19/2010 3:47:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

I think many of you are far ahead of me. Perhaps its the wording of my op, so i will try again.

Much is being made of the parties both gaining a majority, like its some magical being.

My question was aimed at that magical number... which seems to be 218.

What happens if neither party gains that majority? Im asking because i truly dont know myself. Do the independents choose who they will side with and gives that party the majority? Can they keep to themselves and cause a huge split in the House? Or does it matter? If it doesnt matter, and which ever party gains the simple majority, is that the ruling party in the house? If that is how it works, then does the independent party have any say at all?

Just some questions out of curiosity.

It's pretty basic.

The House runs by pretty specific rules. The Speaker is a Constitutional office and must be chosen by majority vote of the House. Technically all the committee assignments and chairmanships are by vote of the House as well. If 3 or more mutually antagonistic blocs were elected and none held a clear majority there would have to be a coalition formed that could elect a Speaker and that coalition would then likely choose all the committee chairs as well.




Vendaval -> RE: Question about the elections... (9/19/2010 11:45:09 PM)

Fast Reply -

A quick check shows -

16. Who are the Independent Members of Congress?
There are currently no Independents serving in the U.S. House of Representatives. Bernard Sanders (I-VT) and Joseph I. Lieberman (I-CT) are currently serving in the U.S. Senate.

http://clerk.house.gov/member_info/memberfaq.html

Personally, I would like to see more Independents at all levels of government, the 2 party system too often ends in deadlock and mudslinging.

Good question, tazzy!




Termyn8or -> RE: Question about the elections... (9/20/2010 4:31:54 AM)

FR

If we could assume that all dems and reps vote along party lines, all it would take is for there to be 217 and 217. In theory that 435th person, an independent would wield quite a bit of power, having the one deciding vote.

Having more independents would be better though because there are always some swing votes and a few dems and reps do not always vote along party lines. What's more, even that one independent would still be subject to bribes and other forms of pressure brought to bear by the real powers that be.

What's more if there were say 145 independents, then it would be possible to prevent a two thirds majority by either of the established parties, however that would only be feasible if the independents voted as a bloc. I wouldn't count on it, in fact if that happened it would actually be a third party. While that would not be a bad thing, we certainly wouldn't be able to count on any glorious achievements.

Now the magic number of 145 independents could actually do something though, if they were among the fiscally responsible. They could concievably (under just the right conditions) refuse to allow the budget to pass. Many people would be up in arms but think of the ramifications. Questions left and right (so to speak) "Do you really want to shut the government down ?", to which they would answer "YES !". Do you have any idea what that would mean ?

Yes it is a radical idea, but if you have any concept at all of the goings on and the upcoming consequences of this whole mess, it pales in comparison. And do it now, before it gets shoved down our throats.

T




DomYngBlk -> RE: Question about the elections... (9/20/2010 8:28:45 AM)

The tea party is simply far right republicans with a new name. No more , no less. Same cast of characters save for Sarah who is trying to coopt it. If it was an actual Party it would be independent and be running its own candidates.




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