"Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq"

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Vendaval -> "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/19/2010 11:39:18 PM)
We have previously discussed the lower standards for recruiting into the armed forces during the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars here in this forum. It appears the concerns about soldiers with substance abuse and criminal histories were warranted. Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq By NANCY A. YOUSSEF McClatchy Newspapers Published: September 17, 2010 With the U.S. drawdown in Iraq, the Army is finally confronting an epidemic of drug abuse and criminal behavior that many commanders acknowledge has been made worse because they'd largely ignored it during nearly a decade of wars on two fronts. The Army concedes that it faces a mammoth problem. A 350-page report issued in July after a 15-month investigation into the Army's rising suicide rate found that levels of illegal drug use and criminal activity have reached record highs, while the number of disciplinary actions and forced discharges were at record lows. The result, the Army found, is that "drug and alcohol abuse is a significant health problem in the Army." Where the Army once rigidly enforced rules on drug use, it got sloppy in the rush to get soldiers ready for the battlefield, commanders say. Officers who once trained soldiers on everything from drug abuse to financial planning had only enough time to get their troops ready for battle. The number of misdemeanors that soldiers committed — including traffic infractions, drunk driving and being absent without leave — rose to 50,523 in fiscal year 2009 — a sign, the report said, that "good order and discipline" were declining in the ranks. Five years earlier, the number was 28,388. No disciplinary action was taken in at least 15,074 of the 2009 cases, the report said. From 2001 to 2009, only 70 percent of DUIs and 61 percent of positive drug tests were referred to the Army's substance abuse program, and drug testing became haphazard, as well: In 2009, 78,517 soldiers went untested for illegal drug use. Statistically, the Army estimated, that meant that 1,311 offenders probably escaped detection. Sexual assault more than tripled in the same period, from 302 cases in 2001 to 1,015 in 2009. The increase in drug abuse and bad behavior came at the same time that the Army enlisted thousands of recruits who in previous years would have been ruled ineligible because of drug or other criminal convictions. According to the report, nearly 20 percent of the soldiers who've enlisted in the Army since 2004 — perhaps as many as 10,000 — would "not have been eligible for entry into the Army before."" http://www.stripes.com/news/army-confronts-escalating-drug-abuse-as-soldiers-return-from-iraq-1.118603

JstAnotherSub -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 5:03:47 AM)
I wonder if the majority of the ones who are now using drugs did so before enlisting, or do so as a result of enlisting. War makes folks do things they might not do otherwise. As for the sending those we previously would have spat on, rather than allow to serve, so they could die, well, that pisses me of on so many levels I cant even begin to tell them all.

Moonhead -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 5:18:27 AM)
It's weird how they're making a bigger fuss over the drug abuse than the sexual assault, isn't it?

RacerJim -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 5:27:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub I wonder if the majority of the ones who are now using drugs did so before enlisting, or do so as a result of enlisting. War makes folks do things they might not do otherwise. As for the sending those we previously would have spat on, rather than allow to serve, so they could die, well, that pisses me of on so many levels I cant even begin to tell them all. Based upon my personal experience I suspect the majority of our troops now using drugs et al did not do so prior to enlisting but, rather, as a result of the anti-war sentiment on the home front. The thought of being verbally debased, spat upon and having cups of excrement and urine thrown at them upon their return to the home front sometimes makes those who put their lives in harm's way to defend and protect the home front do things they otherwise wouldn't. Vietnam Veteran

Moonhead -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 5:38:32 AM)
Nothing to do with the fact that heroin has been Afghanistan's main export ever since the Taliban took over and the coalition forces are charged with destroying fields of the stuff as part of their job there, then?

Termyn8or -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 6:12:46 AM)
Taliban did not support drugs trading, in fact it was the death sentence. But I have no doubt things have changed and I don't wonder why. But the same shit happened in Vietnam and to some extent I think Korea. Remember the movie Black Rain ? Though fiction it made a good point. The first problem is that our society is unrealistic. We fill the kid's heads with Motherhood and brotherhood and love thy neighbor and all that horseshit, leaving them totally unprepared for the harsh realities to come. Of course my solution based omnidirectional thinking comes into play and I have an idea. Instead of taking our best and brightest and promising them a college education and all that bullshit, what we should do is empty the prisons. Take all the violaent offenders, I mean the dirtiest lowdown armed robbers, killers, serial murderers and all them people and stick a uniform on them. Feed them good but give them no pay. If and only if they survive give them a lifetime pension. Simple really, just unleash the element of our society that we must imprison, upon the society of the enemy. Period. Tear the fucking place up, that's what we do anyway. Face it, they are past all the happy time, the loving and nurturing bullshit. I mean the hardest of criminals. If they shoot too many friendlies and not enough enemies, shoot them, case closed. Give that a bit of thought before discarding the notion. Go over there and kill people who never bothered us, because they are a threat to our big money people. Put the "dirty dozen" to good use and free up all those dollars for better things, like more yachts and jet for the bankers. Stop destroying those who would probably become an asset to our society. Of course the mamby pamby, peace loving sheeple would never approve. Fukum, they are not running the world. Those who run the world would kill you or me as soon as they would stomp on a bug. Let reality hit home. Stop thinking with your hearts and flowers and use your brain. The benefits seriously outweigh the drawbacks. T

Hippiekinkster -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 6:44:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim Based upon my personal experience I suspect the majority of our troops now using drugs et al did not do so prior to enlisting but, rather, as a result of the anti-war sentiment on the home front. The thought of being verbally debased, spat upon and having cups of excrement and urine thrown at them upon their return to the home front sometimes makes those who put their lives in harm's way to defend and protect the home front do things they otherwise wouldn't. Vietnam Veteran When did any returning Nam vet ever have urine or feces thrown at them, or be spat upon? Never happened.

Termyn8or -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 7:02:27 AM)
I think they may have been spat at. I also recall them being called baby killers. It was a bad scene all the way around. But my point still stnads, send over our meanest and nastiest, rather than our best and brightest (?). Not that I believe it is very bright to enlist in the military, but they are misled. They think "When I get out of the army I'll go to school and get a degree blah blah blah", when in reality when they get out of the army they will probably have spilled some blood, might be missing a few parts and be irrecoverably affected emotionally. Then they'll get screwed on their benefits. T

Aneirin -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 7:07:38 AM)
I am inclined to agree with that T. why send the best most productive people to die on foreign fields and there leave the usual threats to society incarcerated at tax payer's expense, it makes no sense. Especially so when one considers if a war is lengthy and costly in terms of human life, what will be coming back at the cease of hostilities, if they come back, will there suddenly be a glut of productive people ready to get the nation moving again, or will those people be emotionally knackered to put it mildly and there not as productive as what they were before they went and seen things they otherwise would not even dream of. When the veterans come back after a war it has already been demonstrated they possess many problems that were not there before, so as regards just getting on with life might be a very hard thing to do. Say for example the nation concerned starts to rise out of the shit pit of reduced employment and starts creating jobs again as the country gets moving who will there be there to fill those jobs, if the once though of as decent people are knackered by war. The jobs have to be filled or the country fails to improve, what work force will be available, none other than the criminal class. Will the criminal class go to work, highly doubtful if by their very choice of lifestyle they get more fun out of being criminals. Therefore it makes economic and societal sense to treat criminality as a desire to be aggressive towards others, why not fulfil that desire, and make use of the mentality for the business of war, prisons could become military establishments where the criminal is treated to military prison style regimes, which has a reputation for making something useful out of miscreants, not merely a punishment, but a course in advanced behavioural modification, the best of which may actually agree to a life in the military once it is they are shown the error of their ways, for military style weeding the men from the boys is effective in that it works to provide a nation with an effective fighting force from raw recruit civvies. If the military had control of criminality, I believe one can bet there will be less instances of re offence post incarceration, and who knows the behavioural modification on the lines of military recruit basic training might actually make humans out of what is something an animal will not even touch with a shitty stick. One time criminals may very well become upstanding citizens with belief and hope and a desire to live an honest life thereafter. Failing any notions of behavioural modification to become civilised, why not use the criminality in people and direct it to actual enemies, not a country's own people as it presently does.

joether -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 7:32:19 AM)
During any prolong conflict (i.e. the G.W.Bush Iraq War), the available soldiers will start taking casualities. We call that the cost of war. However, there is a greater degree of destruction we have only started to learn about in the last forty years. While Iraq was in full swing, the US Military kept coming up short for quotes each month for the US Army and the USMC. The USAF and US Navy suffered no problems (Thanks to Iraq's massive air and sea power). The 'bar' was lowered more and more times, to help 'encourage' US Citizens to join. The idea of allowing illegal immigrants to join the military, server their term, and become US Citizens was also debated (as early as 2001). So, as the 'bar' was lowered, more US Citizens with prior convictions, drug abuse, and even physical/mental tests, that would have disbarred them from joining previously, were over looked. But that isn't the full extent of the problem. War itself is just ugly in every form. Homo Sapien, like any other animal, is not made for warfare. The difference between us and 99.9999999% of animals on this planet, is we understand to a better degree of war. Still, bombardment, ambushs, stressful conditions, screwed up sleeping schedules, lost of real contact with love ones (seeing someone on a TV verse holding them in their arms), extended deployments, and even multiple deployments, DO, have an effect on anyone. It didn't surprise anyone in the mental health field, that the suicide rate for soldiers was steadily rising, as were drug abuse, domestic abuse, violence, and even major criminal behavior. Soldiers are trained for war, not 're-intergrate in to society and behave like it never happened'. Not surprisingly that soldiers exhibit dangerous behaviors once back in the states: reckless driving, withdrawl from society, quick to anger, substance abuse, and even dangerous persuits. While the US Military has a number of physical and mental health programs active, along with civilian systems; not enough soldiers, who are endangered or actively in destruction mode, are taking advantage of the programs. While I admire US Military guys, even they, are still human, and bound to many of the physical and mental health problems of every day citizens. However, given the nature of their occupations, the likelyhood of seeking care, is a social stigma in the military. I've heard from soldiers say, they were deathly afraid of seeking help for severe depression with suicidual idation, on the grounds it would end their military career. And hence, one of the primary reasons, people around the soldier have to pay attention to little things. Unfortuantely, most Americans simply are not trained well enough, to pick up on physical or mental health problems. Tragedy, sadly, follows soon afterward. So I'm not at all surprised by your topic, Vendaval. The question is, what does the USA, do about the problem?

pahunkboy -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 8:13:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moonhead It's weird how they're making a bigger fuss over the drug abuse than the sexual assault, isn't it? True- unless you count dont ask dont tell.

Moonhead -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 8:25:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Termyn8or Taliban did not support drugs trading, in fact it was the death sentence. But I have no doubt things have changed and I don't wonder why. As long as it's only infidels taking the stuff, they don't have a problem with it. They get most of their money from selling smack and had done so for long before you invaded. That's why your troops are taking the time to burn any fields they find in the first place. Bear in mind a lot of the Taliban are Pakistani rather than Pashtun, and Pakistan's one of the biggest production centres for the stuff outside of the golden triangle.

slvemike4u -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 12:35:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub I wonder if the majority of the ones who are now using drugs did so before enlisting, or do so as a result of enlisting. War makes folks do things they might not do otherwise. As for the sending those we previously would have spat on, rather than allow to serve, so they could die, well, that pisses me of on so many levels I cant even begin to tell them all. Based upon my personal experience I suspect the majority of our troops now using drugs et al did not do so prior to enlisting but, rather, as a result of the anti-war sentiment on the home front. The thought of being verbally debased, spat upon and having cups of excrement and urine thrown at them upon their return to the home front sometimes makes those who put their lives in harm's way to defend and protect the home front do things they otherwise wouldn't. Vietnam Veteran It is truly amazing just how many lies,distortions and exagerations can be squeezed into two little paragraphs. Well done Jim.

mnottertail -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 12:37:21 PM)
Poop in a cup. You heard it right here. Aubrey, I say, old cabbage, use the fine china please.......

Aylee -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 1:15:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub I wonder if the majority of the ones who are now using drugs did so before enlisting, or do so as a result of enlisting. War makes folks do things they might not do otherwise. As for the sending those we previously would have spat on, rather than allow to serve, so they could die, well, that pisses me of on so many levels I cant even begin to tell them all. Based upon my personal experience I suspect the majority of our troops now using drugs et al did not do so prior to enlisting but, rather, as a result of the anti-war sentiment on the home front. The thought of being verbally debased, spat upon and having cups of excrement and urine thrown at them upon their return to the home front sometimes makes those who put their lives in harm's way to defend and protect the home front do things they otherwise wouldn't. Vietnam Veteran It is truly amazing just how many lies,distortions and exagerations can be squeezed into two little paragraphs. Well done Jim. That is not quite fair Mike. I agree with his first sentiment. They were unlikely to be doing drugs prior to enlistment. However, history has shown us repeatedly that being in war leads to a lot of substance abuse. Look at the Civil War and the amount of cocaine and morphine addictions afterwards from the soldiers. It is a coping mechanism for shell shock. Now known as PTSD. I believe it was Dr. Rivers that studied it in the Great War and called it shell shock. (WW I) No one is immune. Unfortunatly most of these guys do not know of a better way of dealing with the issue. And there is no magic cure. It is unfortunate and sad. These people deserve our empathy not our derision.

slvemike4u -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 2:36:04 PM)
The validity,or lack thereof,of the first sentiment is irellevant to the body of his post...wherein he tries to rationalize drug use on the part of returning soldiers due to a fear that they will be subject to vile treatment upon their return home. He does not speak of PTSD or physical injuries no he wishes to blame bleeding heart liberals for post service drug use.....as I said lies and bullshit

Moonhead -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 2:39:36 PM)
Maybe that's who they're buying the shit from? Bleeding heart liberals might have better stuff than manly god fearing neocons...

thishereboi -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 4:14:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RacerJim quote: ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub I wonder if the majority of the ones who are now using drugs did so before enlisting, or do so as a result of enlisting. War makes folks do things they might not do otherwise. As for the sending those we previously would have spat on, rather than allow to serve, so they could die, well, that pisses me of on so many levels I cant even begin to tell them all. Based upon my personal experience I suspect the majority of our troops now using drugs et al did not do so prior to enlisting but, rather, as a result of the anti-war sentiment on the home front. The thought of being verbally debased, spat upon and having cups of excrement and urine thrown at them upon their return to the home front sometimes makes those who put their lives in harm's way to defend and protect the home front do things they otherwise wouldn't. Vietnam Veteran As far as I know, no one is abusing our men when they come home. In fact my nephew who is in the reserves and spends a great deal of time out in public, in uniform says he is treated better in his fatigues than when he is dressed in normal clothes. Now I know the men coming back from Vietnam were treated like dogs, but I have not heard about it happening today.

Vendaval -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 8:39:04 PM)
thishereboi, I agree, the troops returning home are being treated well by civilians but many have expressed frustration with the VA. joether, increasing mental health screening and services along with drug and alcohol treatment would be a good place to start. I keep wondering how these problems are effecting morale within the ranks too. quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi As far as I know, no one is abusing our men when they come home. In fact my nephew who is in the reserves and spends a great deal of time out in public, in uniform says he is treated better in his fatigues than when he is dressed in normal clothes. Now I know the men coming back from Vietnam were treated like dogs, but I have not heard about it happening today.

TheHeretic -> RE: "Army confronts escalating drug abuse as soldiers return from Iraq" (9/20/2010 9:18:25 PM)
I think the headline is a bit misleading, Ven. This is not a story about stressed out and traumatized veterans. This is a story about a serious discipline and morale problem in the ranks. Lowered standards, and increased use of waivers for prior acts and offenses certainly play a role in that. We have to address that first. If we cut the flow of bad apples in, we can effectively get the people who have a problem onto a better path, and the get the people who are the problem out on their asses.

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