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SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/19/2010 11:48:56 PM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I was reading up on the phenomenon of Brain zaps when discontinuing or reducing the dosage of SSRI's just for general interest, as having had what is described as brain zaps I was interested and sought more information.

On reading the Wikipedia page regarding SSRI discontinuation syndrome I noticed something I did not previously know having been on SSRI's for the past three years, the problems I experience when I get into either a self destructive mode and ignore the requirement to take the medication or just plain forget and the forgetting cycles into continuous forgetting, the ( according to Wikipedia ), little known post SSRI sexual dysfunction syndrome, which in my case I have reported to my doctor only to be scolded for not taking the medication as he has prescribed. Which is fair enough, but the memory sucks and I do get self destructive.

Now I have in the past discontinued SSRI through plain self belief in that the medication is doing toss all, and have reaped much of what wikipedia describes as Post SSRI Sexual Dysfunction, I can agree with much of what is written in that list of reported problems, but it alarmed me to read;

While apparently uncommon, it can last for months, years, or sometimes indefinitely after the discontinuation of SSRIs. It should be duly noted that this condition has not been well-established or proven in the field of medicine, thus patients are not warned of the potential condition by their physicians and it is not listed in consumer information leaflets.

Here in the UK with our NHS system, it is still very much of a Doctor know's best kind of scenario where the doctor prescribes and the patient complies without question, except that I question, I research myself and ask questions. I know this kind of annoys my doc, but he has to understand I have a brain and I use it when I need to question, which possibly comes across as though I don't entirely trust doctors.

But anyway, My question is largely directed towards those SSRI users in the US as they have a different health care system to us ;

On the subject of Post SSRI Sexual Dysfunction Syndrome (PSSD) are you made aware of this possibility, as it does say on the Wikipedia page that many doctors are unaware of it and because there has no clinical trials been done, and the possibility is not listed in the medication's consumer information literature ?

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 4:50:40 AM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		According to my psychiatrist, that was primarily a problem if you discontinued the meds in under 18 months. If you stayed on them for the full treatment of 18 -30 months which will produce remission in 70% of patients, you should not have any reoccurrence of symptoms or any other problems, of course tapering off especially in Effexor is a long process that must not be cut short but done as prescribed. Some 15% of patients must stay on for five plus years and the remainder require it lifelong.

You took yourself off them when you should not have, and you did not taper off for the months required to do so successfully. And now you're surprised you had problems as a result? This is no different then not taking a full dosage of antibiotics and needing hospitalization for antibiotic resistant bacteria as a result.

Oh, about possible lowering of the libido? They don't tell you of this because of the fact that libido is so easily altered by the person's belief. Telling you it can cause this means there will be much higher amounts of people who complain about it. Just like a new study shows that women given placebos to raise libido had a high rate of success. If you think you can't, you won't. If you think you can, you will. This is as true of beta blockers as of SSRIs. And Wikipedia is not a high end source for medication information.


< Message edited by DesFIP -- 9/20/2010 4:58:18 AM >

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 5:44:01 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		These pills are EXTREMELY addictive.  I had been unable to shake them. (4x)

I was warned many years ago- by someone in IE.  But I discounted the rant.

You simply can not drop this med  You are on it for life. IMO it permanently alters the chemicals in the brain.

My advice is to forget about sex.   As one gets older- in males there are other factors- such as prostrate.

The zaps you speak of are real-- and they are serious.

IMO this type of med is a temp med.   Not long term- but once on it for a long time- there is no hope to EVER get off of it.

More addictive then crack.

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 5:57:36 AM   
hertz


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quote:

there is no hope to EVER get off of it.


I think that might be overstating the case a little. I took SSRIs for more than one period of a year or less, and I no longer use them. I am sure some people experience very real difficulties stopping, but I wouldn't want to guess at the percentages. Trouble is, like many medical interventions, the use of SSRIs doesn't have a long history. Who knows what the real truth of it is?

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 6:06:29 AM   
angelikaJ


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Status: offline 		There is another well known work around for sexual dysfunction: adding wellbutrin (either buproprion or budeprion depending on where you live).

It can produce anxiety in some people, but for many men and women, it works very well for that issue.

I do know someone who uses an SSRI seasonally, on in the winter and off in the summer. His sexual function issues are more at the beginning and less as his body adjusts and return to "normal" when he is off it.



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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 6:15:24 AM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I am aware Wikipedia has it's faults, but it gives a general guide which is in layman's terms, the terminology used being that that non medical professionals have a chance at understanding. I further believe those who take medication need to fully understand what it is they are taking, it's positives and it's negatives. If the medical professional fails to supply the information through unawareness or disbelief, then it is up to the consumer to find out for themselves if it interests them, I am one of those people.

My symptoms for the things that I have done do not just include decreased libido, sometimes I see that as a positive, for one can think of other things instead of sex all the time, it is a break from myself. The symptoms that did concern me were ones experienced when I was in the sort of situation where sexual response and enjoyment was the aim, i.e. sleeping with another.

The symptoms namely were erectile dysfunction, little response to stimulation, vastly reduced sensitivity bordering on anesthesia and resulting in anorgasmia. Scary stuff when you get in, no good for sexual relations as those who do not understand take lack of visual response to mean one might not be interested. The result with myself when in close relations with another is I get massive banging headaches emanating from the back of my head around the area of the termination of the spinal cord, something which I take to be stress headaches.

Now knowing the things I have experienced have a definition, PSSD and they could be caused by the abrupt discontinuation of SSRI or wrong taper angle, I am keen to stay on the medication, as those symptoms mentioned are worrying to say the least. But as I said I report to my doctor the things I notice, but he was as far as I could understand unaware that these things happen when the prescribed SSRI was discontinued, for he was very interested in what I had to report.

The UK NHS General Practitioners on the whole are very good, but there does exist some who are not so good, they generally being the ones who do not keep abreast of medical knowledge as it changes, the archetypal old fart who has seen it all, done it all, so is just basically waiting for retirement which many of them don't do when they are at or beyond the age when others in the population are required to do, these people are the dangerous ones, the ones often revealed in newspaper articles where malpractice has been found.

But as to my original question, those in the US who pay for their physician, do you get the full facts as it is known about the medication you are prescribed ?

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 7:13:39 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

there is no hope to EVER get off of it.


I think that might be overstating the case a little. I took SSRIs for more than one period of a year or less, and I no longer use them. I am sure some people experience very real difficulties stopping, but I wouldn't want to guess at the percentages. Trouble is, like many medical interventions, the use of SSRIs doesn't have a long history. Who knows what the real truth of it is?



Then 1 year might be the key point.

I am on that crap for over 10 years.  I am hooked for life. I will NEVER be able to get off of it.

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 7:19:22 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Wellbutrin did nothing for me as regards the dysfunction... which I did not consider a side effect for a long time! I remember the orgasms I used to have... but I can STILL have them, it just took some experimentation to see what I really needed to get aroused. Which can be entertaining.

I have been on SSRI's for over ten years. Should I risk stopping them and going back to the person I was? Yes, I miss being smart, but I do not miss the symptoms of my severe depression.

When it comes to psychoactive drugs, my doctor admitted that they really don't know HOW they work. That's why finding one that works is such a crapshoot in the first place. Prozac? Nearly killed me.

If I were a diabetic, I would be taking my metformin or glucophage or insulin. I am a depressed person due to a malfunction in my brain chemicals, NOT due to my life, which is pretty damn fine. So I take my Effexor. YMMV, of course. We all have to decide what is most important for our functioning lives.

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 7:20:21 AM   
pahunkboy


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Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Anerin,

Reduced performance is common on the 40s.

How is your prostrate?

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 9:09:32 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Re medical professionals in the U.S., some are better than others. Here as well as there. It also depends on your insurance, if you're not allowed to pick who you want but have to use the ones who sign up with the HMO, they're likely to be lower end.

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 9:23:12 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		But as to my original question, those in the US who pay for their physician, do you get the full facts as it is known about the medication you are prescribed ?/snip


No.  I have to look it up.   DRs here are paid gifts to push newer pricey meds. More is spent on marketing then on research.    Newer meds are not tried and true- and at times based on shoddy science.

Reagan deregulated the industry- and this has lead to sloppiness.

The AMA works for the profit motive.  The idea is not to heal people- but to sell the most pills at the highest cost.

Even research is flawed.  Unless the research can find a profit motive- it wont get funded.

One should always do their own homework- and participate in their treatment.

Dont stop at wiki-  scour the net for bits of info.



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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 9:45:14 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		My doctors are very good about knowing what they are prescribing, and they use those samples to help out those who don't have insurance or are underinsured! So, it can take a lot of work to find a good doctor.

It is horrifying, what those pharma folks do to schmooze the doctors.

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 9:49:49 AM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

quote:

there is no hope to EVER get off of it.


I think that might be overstating the case a little. I took SSRIs for more than one period of a year or less, and I no longer use them. I am sure some people experience very real difficulties stopping, but I wouldn't want to guess at the percentages. Trouble is, like many medical interventions, the use of SSRIs doesn't have a long history. Who knows what the real truth of it is?



Then 1 year might be the key point.

I am on that crap for over 10 years.  I am hooked for life. I will NEVER be able to get off of it.



Either you have not been to a doctor or went to a crap one. Anyone who is on any type of medication, including SSRI's can be weaned off successfully, tapering off gradually.

There is no medical evidence saying otherwise. If you fear going off of them for other reasons, that is different.

But do not go around saying this; I know a TON of people on every type of antidepressants around and some were on for more than 10 years. They have all weaned off in a healthy, gradual way.

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 10:10:38 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Red,  I disagree.

There may be no official evidence.  Heck- even when I stabilized at 75 mg- some on this board grilled me to go back to the higher dose.  I got tired of hearing it. 

The lowest I dropped was 60 mg.

Effexxor works as a double chemical action in the brain. They do not fully understand it.

SSRIs - are addictive to some.   In fact- a few people believe SSRIS cause suicides.

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 10:15:10 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Status: offline 		There is evidence that ALL antidepressants can lead to suicide.

As a suicidal person, MY opinion of why is this: the drugs make you functional, and once you can do stuff like get out of bed, you can make a clear plan to achieve your goal of NOT DOING THIS ANYMORE.

It is entirely possible to be weaned off SSRI's even after a long period of time. It is hellish, because the side effects are just ghastly. But it can be done. Of course, then you will end up with the same mangled brain chemicals that you had when you started taking the meds.

If you have brain chemical issues, and are not just taking meds for situational depression, STOPPING the meds will not help you. Therapy will, ideally, give you disease management and COPING skills, but it will not make you like those other folks out there.

I hate my drugs with a passion. EVERY DAY I think of stopping them. Every day, I take them.

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 10:20:24 AM   
sexyred1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Red,  I disagree.

There may be no official evidence.  Heck- even when I stabilized at 75 mg- some on this board grilled me to go back to the higher dose.  I got tired of hearing it. 

The lowest I dropped was 60 mg.

Effexxor works as a double chemical action in the brain. They do not fully understand it.

SSRIs - are addictive to some.   In fact- a few people believe SSRIS cause suicides.



I know, lots of drugs and substances are addictive. However, there is nothing that cannot be stopped with work.

As LadyH said, SSRI's have been linked to suicidal thoughts, but so are a ton of other things, alcohol, etc.

All I am saying is that if you want to go off a medication, you might have to take something else to help you, but it can be done and never think otherwise.


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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 10:26:38 AM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		YEARS ago, I wound up in the day hospital due to serotonin plummet, trying to phase off effexor and try something else. We totally miscalculated the severity of the side effects. Nasty. Scary. Just BAD. It's amazing how the useful aspects of the drug have such a short half life, but the side effect stuff hangs on!



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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 10:30:04 AM   
sexyred1


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Status: offline 		It is bad, I had tried Paxil many, many years ago for migraines and I had not had the education on meds I do now.

I did not know then that you have to wean yourself off and OMG, I was so sick. It took another drug to help me taper off and then I was fine.

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 11:54:06 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I have no plans to stop the SSRI.  I dont think they should be banned- but- I do think caution is in order.

What good is getting off the meds- if I want to be dead?   So- yes- they are addicting.   Had I stopped once my injuries/lawsuits were in check- I could have got off them. But I did not. And now it is too late.  True- I could stop- but then- I would want to carbon monoxide myself.

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RE: SSRI users, were you made aware of this ? - 9/20/2010 12:34:52 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus
If you have brain chemical issues, and are not just taking meds for situational depression, STOPPING the meds will not help you.


Not necessarily. As I said, I'm fourth generation mood disorder, not situation depression. Chronic clinical brain chemical disorder. And two and a half years later I went off and have stayed off for over ten years now. With every expectation that I should never again have an episode. Unipolar depression is the only mood disorder than has some amount of cure, not just daily treatment.

The oldest, fifth generation, bipolar, anxiety, oppositional defiance etc etc has found that now that she's out of her teens she can reduce the amount of her meds which has pretty much eliminated the constant fatigue.


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