NBER’s statement on recession’s end (Full Version)

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jlf1961 -> NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 7:42:27 AM)

quote:

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The following is the statement from the National Bureau of Economic Research on the ending of the recession:

“The Business Cycle Dating Committee of the National Bureau of Economic Research met yesterday by conference call. At its meeting, the committee determined that a trough in business activity occurred in the U.S. economy in June 2009. The trough marks the end of the recession that began in December 2007 and the beginning of an expansion. The recession lasted 18 months, which makes it the longest of any recession since World War II. Previously the longest postwar recessions were those of 1973-75 and 1981-82, both of which lasted 16 months.

In determining that a trough occurred in June 2009, the committee did not conclude that economic conditions since that month have been favorable or that the economy has returned to operating at normal capacity. Rather, the committee determined only that the recession ended and a recovery began in that month. A recession is a period of falling economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales. The trough marks the end of the declining phase and the start of the rising phase of the business cycle. Economic activity is typically below normal in the early stages of an expansion, and it sometimes remains so well into the expansion. source


Okay, for some reason I do not believe this non-partisan organization because it sure seems that times are tough to me.




joether -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 9:16:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
quote:

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The following is the statement from the National Bureau of Economic Research on the ending of the recession:

“The Business Cycle Dating Committee of the National Bureau of Economic Research met yesterday by conference call. At its meeting, the committee determined that a trough in business activity occurred in the U.S. economy in June 2009. The trough marks the end of the recession that began in December 2007 and the beginning of an expansion. The recession lasted 18 months, which makes it the longest of any recession since World War II. Previously the longest postwar recessions were those of 1973-75 and 1981-82, both of which lasted 16 months.

In determining that a trough occurred in June 2009, the committee did not conclude that economic conditions since that month have been favorable or that the economy has returned to operating at normal capacity. Rather, the committee determined only that the recession ended and a recovery began in that month. A recession is a period of falling economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales. The trough marks the end of the declining phase and the start of the rising phase of the business cycle. Economic activity is typically below normal in the early stages of an expansion, and it sometimes remains so well into the expansion. source


Okay, for some reason I do not believe this non-partisan organization because it sure seems that times are tough to me.


This group is taking the idea of a 'recession' in regards to a national level. Even during good Bullish times, local levels could potentially suffer from a recession. The difference is the scale of economies at work. So, some areas are still experiencing recession symptoms, because, its at a 'local', 'state' or 'regional' level. However, other 'local', 'state' or 'regions' are experiencing growth not typically found with recessions.

From what I've been reading, the recession is lessening as the months go by. In some areas of the country, it is not unexpected, to still be experiencing a recession months from now. However, parts of the country are growing. The DOW (a leading economic indicator) is on the rise. In those areas of growth, companies are hiring more people, which in turn, will grow the economy. The problem is understaind the concept of a 'recession'.

Most people do not understand what 'is' and 'isn't' a recession, even though the information is easily accessible online. When people hear 'the nation is out of a recession', but they themselves, are unemployed, its hard to take the news seriously. Its the scale of economies between the 'nation' and the 'individual'. Even during the Great Depression, some individuals were making moneying 'hand over fist', even though, on a national level, things sucked.

As much as the Republican Party declares otherwise, most economists and business people point out the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, has done alot of good for the country. Not saying, it really helped Mr. Obama's reputation out. Funny, the guy engineers economic policy on a potentially crippling situtation, and gets very little, if any 'thanks' from people, for doing it. There was a great number of hard and difficult decisions that were made, based on the numbers at the time, on how to proceed. They didn't have a crystal ball or a time-traveling DeLorean.




Fellow -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 10:47:30 AM)

“The committee decided that any future downturn of the economy would be a new recession and not a continuation of the recession that began in December 2007,”  ...

I see the statement rather politically motivated than making much economic sense. It is widely understood there has not been much economic gain of anything if we subtract effect of the stimulus.  The current state of US economy needs to be sold by the government as so-called  "new normal".  The high unemployment is structural and it will not change. There is not much the government can do at this point ("out of bullets") without drastic measures (major structural changes). The government is corrupt not capable for the last.




popeye1250 -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 10:48:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The following is the statement from the National Bureau of Economic Research on the ending of the recession:

“The Business Cycle Dating Committee of the National Bureau of Economic Research met yesterday by conference call. At its meeting, the committee determined that a trough in business activity occurred in the U.S. economy in June 2009. The trough marks the end of the recession that began in December 2007 and the beginning of an expansion. The recession lasted 18 months, which makes it the longest of any recession since World War II. Previously the longest postwar recessions were those of 1973-75 and 1981-82, both of which lasted 16 months.

In determining that a trough occurred in June 2009, the committee did not conclude that economic conditions since that month have been favorable or that the economy has returned to operating at normal capacity. Rather, the committee determined only that the recession ended and a recovery began in that month. A recession is a period of falling economic activity spread across the economy, lasting more than a few months, normally visible in real GDP, real income, employment, industrial production, and wholesale-retail sales. The trough marks the end of the declining phase and the start of the rising phase of the business cycle. Economic activity is typically below normal in the early stages of an expansion, and it sometimes remains so well into the expansion. source


Okay, for some reason I do not believe this non-partisan organization because it sure seems that times are tough to me.


"If your neighbor is unemployed it's a recession, if you're unemployed it's a depression."
I don't think we are "out" of a recession yet.
Some key ingredients are missing one being stock market capitulation. It looks like we're having a "bear market rally" right now. We haven't had any stock market capitulation yet. That's not good.
Where are the drivers of a "bull market?" Besides "government" where is all the spending supposed to come from to drive a bull market? Restaurants are still going out of business. Banks aren't loaning money.
Yeah, some cos. are reporting "good earnings" but accountants can often be creative and inflation can be disguised as something else.
"Employment" is what's called a "lagging indicator" and often doesn't pick up in 6 months or a year after the end of a bear market which is marked by,..."stock market capitulation." If you're in the stock market, be careful.
And whenever the economy does pickup I doubt we'll be seeing ads for, "100 psychologists, sociologists, political science majors needed, good benefits"
The type of degree or trade you have does matter. The person next to you in the Mercedes at the stop light could be a Doctor or a Plumber.
*Bull markets don't start with a wimper they start with a "roar!"* Anyone hear any "roaring" going on?
Maybe it's me but I just can't see it.




Hillwilliam -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 11:28:19 AM)

In this state, August unemployment numbers are 1.2% lower than a year ago in August.

Not good by any means but better.




popeye1250 -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 4:53:07 PM)

If it did end in June of '09 there'd be a lot of hiring going on by now 15 months later.
Again, I just can't see it.




Jeffff -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 4:55:23 PM)

There is a huge disconnect between the "market" and most of the rest of the US.

The Dow jumps.... and too many folks still struggle.

It is all set up for another tumble........




popeye1250 -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 5:10:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

There is a huge disconnect between the "market" and most of the rest of the US.

The Dow jumps.... and too many folks still struggle.

It is all set up for another tumble........


Jeff, you're right there, I really think that this is a "bear market rally"and that people should be very carefull.




flcouple2009 -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 5:24:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff
There is a huge disconnect between the "market" and most of the rest of the US.


True, the "market" is doing well doesn't reflect nearly as much in the economy as it did once upon a time.

Let's take Apple for an example.

The company is doing great, stock price rising, product flying off the shelves.  Except for some sales guys in AT&T stores selling iphones and the people working at the Apple Stores selling ipads there is not that much benefit to the economy.

Oh wait there is in China where all of these neat little gadgets are being produced.




Jeffff -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 5:32:45 PM)

It is easy to blame Apple and the like. That is similar to blaming the bank because they lent you more money than you could afford to pay back

I have an Ipod..... I am upgrading to a Sony Walkman... for sound quality.

Like it or not, is is a world economy. We have just not completley found our place in it yet.

I only hope our place is not nearer the bottom than the top.




thishereboi -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 5:36:23 PM)

quote:

Okay, for some reason I do not believe this non-partisan organization because it sure seems that times are tough to me.


I would have to agree with you. I look around Detroit and I don't see anything getting better.




Jeffff -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 5:37:51 PM)

There has never been a better time to buy something.... if you have money.

Rockefeller anyone? Kennedy?....?




Jeffff -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 5:54:53 PM)

I am gonna put on some Thelonious Monk and watch monday night football while I contemplate the end of the world.

The dissonance helps..:)




flcouple2009 -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/20/2010 6:02:15 PM)

Where did I say anything about blame?

Outsourcing and the manufacturing jobs moved off shore have disconnected the market from the economy.   




DCWoody -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/21/2010 6:42:26 AM)

Christ. Recession is an economic term with a very precise definition, the recession ended in most nations during summer-autumn 2009. It's not something you can debate, it's a matter of fact. I checked it out, and yes....in the usa the recession did end in q3 (ie, the break is june/july) 2009. In such a large country local areas will be worse or better (you've always had ghost towns, even during boom years). RE unemployment, I'd expect to see it start to fall ~1 year after the end of recession....though I'm aware the USA has large seasonal differences, and had a once in ten years census event swaying it too...and there was the stimulus. It looks like it peaked winter 09/10 and is slowly falling, but mebe it's just those factors making the difference. Have to wait and see.

Either way: the recession is over, it's not a matter of belief its a matter of fact.




popeye1250 -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/21/2010 11:24:15 AM)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/State-unemployment-Jobs-cnnm-3451603618.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=

"Job picture gets worse in 27 states."





tazzygirl -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/21/2010 11:33:11 AM)

Pops maybe it would help if you read up on just what are the hallmarks of a recession and the determining factors that indicate the end of such. Jobs typically isnt one of them.





popeye1250 -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/21/2010 12:18:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Pops maybe it would help if you read up on just what are the hallmarks of a recession and the determining factors that indicate the end of such. Jobs typically isnt one of them.





Tazzy, jobs are a "lagging indicator" and can take 6-12 months to turn around.
It's been 15 months now from the "end" of the reccession (June '09) and the job situation is getting... "worse".
And, the stock market still hasn't taken a dump yet. ("capitulation")
It's looking more and more like the people who say we are going to have a "double dip reccession" are going to be right.




DCWoody -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/21/2010 1:13:56 PM)

From what I looked at earlier it seemed peak unemployment came earlier than I'd have thought, but then only fell to ~9.6 and remained around there instead of continuing to improve. Possibly the stimulus holding unemployment artificially low during the first half of 2010? A bit beyond our pay grade I suspect, but the UK & (most of) Europe is looking up, which will knock on to the us as such a big trade partner. I really don't see a double dip over there.

Then again, the us does have regular negative growth...if ya get a negative quarter in '13 will that be double dip?* The downturn that kicked this off was usa 07 initially, I'd expect at least one -q before the end of 2015 just as the general scheme of things.



*Obviously no, but will some of the less bright describe it as such? rhetorical really.




rulemylife -> RE: NBER’s statement on recession’s end (9/21/2010 1:20:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


Tazzy, jobs are a "lagging indicator" and can take 6-12 months to turn around.
It's been 15 months now from the "end" of the reccession (June '09) and the job situation is getting... "worse".



Do you ever bother to check any facts?

The June 2009 unemployment rate was 9.5%.

The June 2010 unemployment rate was 9.5%.

National Employment Monthly Update

quote:


And, the stock market still hasn't taken a dump yet. ("capitulation")



And it's not going to.

The capitulation nonsense that you parrot from idiots like Jim Cramer doesn't hold water. 

If that was going to happen it would have taken place when the Dow was bottoming out in the mid 6,000 range, not when it is consistently above 10,000. 




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