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Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 2:57:39 PM   
brokedickdog


Posts: 114
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Status: offline 		http://voices.washingtonpost.com/political-economy/2010/09/allys_gmac_mortgage_unit_halts.html


The comments of the Maine attorney, Thomas Cox, several paragraphs in, really tell the story. The individual that made statements under oath, whom Cox deposed, has been proven to be swearing falsely. How many times has he done this? The article doesn't say but it is common for a "document execution team" to execute in excess of 10,000 fabricated and forged documents a month.

The comments of Olecki, spokesman for Ally, are also telling, as is the import of the states in which the eviction stoppages are occurring.

First the 23 states are all judicial foreclosure states - meaning there is a court proceeding and homeowners are supposed to be accorded full due process and equal protection. As a result they are also states in which the homeowner can file counter claims against plaintiff, or even file post judgment motions against plaintiff, have a prior court decision vacated, and schedule the matter for a new trial. In the remaining states foreclosure is handled as an administrative matter and homeowners have few if any rights. So what we're seeing is the result of the pro bono group of attorneys pressing the issues of evidence fabrication, forgery, perjury, subbornation of perjury, bribing a witness, bribe receiving by witness, tampering with public records, filing of sham pleadings, fraud on the court, etc.  These are precisely the issues I've been trying to inform members here in regard to.

Ally is doing its best, not to preserve the foreclosure process as Olecki alleges, but rather to try and circle the wagons for the coming battle (and it is coming against numerous entities, not just Ally). Ally/Olecki couldn't care less about preserving the foreclosure process. They have known all along of the slimy, underhanded and illegal tactics that have been employed for the past several years. As well they are only taking this action in judicial foreclosure states - states in which homeowners can more easily call foul, point out fraud to the court and may actually have a chance. Were they truly concerned about preserving the foreclosure process they would be suspending eviction in ALL states, including the non-judicial states.
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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 3:11:06 PM   
brokedickdog


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Joined: 8/13/2010
Status: offline 		Another wrinkle on the same story from Naked Capitalism.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/09/more-on-gmac-and-foreclosure-fraud-mess-the-shit-is-hitting-the-fan.html

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 3:22:52 PM   
luckydawg


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Status: offline 		So you are allegeding that people who are paying but being forclosed anyway?

They pay but the company lies, and takes thier house anyway?






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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 4:37:49 PM   
brokedickdog


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Plaintiffs in foreclosure cases are forging and fabricating documents and presenting these documents to courts as false proof that plaintiff is entitled to foreclose. Under this circumstance I don't care if the homeowner is making payments or not. There is no circumstance whatsoever in which a party that is not entitled should be able to foreclose. That is actually what the law says. A party entitled is entitled. A party not entitled is not entitled. Lying to and tricking the court doesn't change that.

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 4:49:15 PM   
luckydawg


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Status: offline 		This is an offshoot of the "Soverign Citizen" thing right?


I knew a guy here talking about this stuff. He is a 911 jew hater. This is a variant of no taxes and such right?

Abusing the legal system to demand proof that the Janitor is a citizen type stuff?


It doesn't smell right.




even if they buy the information, and tie up the courts demanding everything be proved over and over, they don't get to keep a house and not pay the mortage do they?

Are there any cases, where the court said, ok well you don't have to pay any mortage or back mortage, and you get to keep the house?


Isn't this part of pay me to teach you the secret loophole stuff?



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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 5:13:01 PM   
brokedickdog


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

This is an offshoot of the "Soverign Citizen" thing right?  (No.)


I knew a guy here talking about this stuff. He is a 911 jew hater. This is a variant of no taxes and such right?  (No.)

Abusing the legal system to demand proof that the Janitor is a citizen type stuff?  (I have no idea what you mean.)


It doesn't smell right.




even if they buy the information (Who is "they" and what do you mean by "buy?"), and tie up the courts demanding everything be proved over and over (A homeowner is damn lucky if the court allows them to have any challenges at all to the fabricated evidence being submitted by plaintiffs. Summary is usually granted in judicial foreclosure states well before any discovery ocurrs. Summary, of course, is in place of any kind of trial. So there is no "over and over" involved.), they don't get to keep a house and not pay the mortage do they? (Sometimes, yes. If the court is willing to allow for due process and rule in accordance with facts and law. I am not aware of a case in which this has been the result of the court ruling on fabrication charges or allegations. Clearly though that is coming in the near future. Keeping the house is more a matter of no party that is entitled to foreclose, or entitled to the payments, being identified. Would you be willing to make payments to a party that is not entitled to them? If so how about you just start sending your mortgage and car payments to me.)

Are there any cases, where the court said, ok well you don't have to pay any mortage or back mortage, and you get to keep the house?  (Yes, per above.)


Isn't this part of pay me to teach you the secret loophole stuff?  (No.)



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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 5:15:39 PM   
flcouple2009


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Status: offline 		"In his deposition, this employee -- who signed documents for foreclosures across the country -- stated that when he signs them, he does not know what information the file contains other than the borrower's name, that he does not inspect the exhibits he's supposed to, and that the notary who supposedly witnessed his signing was not in the room."

That would make the documents improperly executed and invalid.  They would then need to be properly executed and refiled.  It's a big leap from there to falsified.

< Message edited by flcouple2009 -- 9/20/2010 5:16:53 PM >

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 5:28:27 PM   
luckydawg


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Status: offline 		FLcpl, your statement was to Brokedick not me, correct?



Brokedick, so no gets to keep thier house.

I clearly asked you, if any of this was people paying thier mortages adn falsely being forclosed on. Or if it was all people not Paying thier notes, and then using a "loophole" to delay losing thier home.

It seems to be the latter.

Just lawyers making money?

If your legit why such shyster statements as,

"(Sometimes, yes. If the court is willing to allow for due process and rule in accordance with facts and law. I am not aware of a case in which this has been the result of the court ruling on fabrication charges or allegations. Clearly though that is coming in the near future. Keeping the house is more a matter of no party that is entitled to foreclose, or entitled to the payments, being identified. Would you be willing to make payments to a party that is not entitled to them? If so how about you just start sending your mortgage and car payments to me.)


But thank you for answering my questions about this subject you are very passionate about.

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 6:10:41 PM   
brokedickdog


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Status: offline 		FL,

If it were that simple and clear "banks" would simply be patient, get all their ducks in a row and THEN file suit. In a very high percentage of cases they CAN'T get all their ducks in a row. Can't. Thus the need for fabricated evidence. Your comment seemed to address only the notary issue without really addressing the more potent issue of false swearing. A false averment, improperly notarized, does not magically become a true statement upon affixing a proper notary signature and stamp.

LD,

Dude, you managed to impugn my integrity, my legitimacy and insult me, and all of that in just eight words. What is clear is that you have only a little knowledge in re this rather large and complex issue, and further that a fair amount of the little knowledge you do have is in error. I'm happily providing the folks on this forum with the knowledge and information I have, and continue to come across. You are welcome to continue reading as well but I won't spend any more of my time addressing your questions specifically, or in any attempts to convince someone with an erroneous understanding of an issue that they really don't get it.

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 6:25:00 PM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: luckydawg

FLcpl, your statement was to Brokedick not me, correct?

I clearly asked you, if any of this was people paying thier mortages adn falsely being forclosed on. Or if it was all people not Paying thier notes, and then using a "loophole" to delay losing thier home.

It seems to be the latter.


Correct, it was to the broke one.

Your also correct that this seems to just be a case of the lawyer trying to work a loophole.

At some point the guy doing the work looked at the stack of files and decided he didn't want to keep reading them.  So he grabbed a stack and signed them.  Then he handed them over to the notary who agreed to just sign off that he had witnessed the signature.

That makes the documents invalid.  But it is a long leap from there to the lawyers claims of falsified documents.

They will have to redo all the documents and revisit each one of those foreclosures.

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 7:59:33 PM   
brokedickdog


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Status: offline 		FL,

It is considerably more involved than the affiant being too lazy to read the stack of papers in front of him. When taken in conjunction with a broader and deeper knowledge of the process of securitization the attorneys claims of falsified documents is anything but specious. Basically this is an emerging area of the law. What was true of lending, mortgages and foreclosures 20 years ago, heck 10 years ago, has essentially been thrown out the window. Short of reading several hundred pages of case law and law daily it is nigh to impossible to have a thorough understanding of the illegalities, legal deficiencies and convolutions involved.

First their are a number of affiants behaving in exactly the same way. This violates the rules of evidence which requires the affiant to be personally knowledgeable in regard to the matters they are offering testimony.

Second, and more important, is that this, and these many, affiants are also executing fabricated assignments of mortgage. Think of this as the paper, in conjunction with a properly endorsed promissory note, that grants a security interest in property. Give this link a read. It may help you grasp the chain of title issues, and fatally defective title issues, that are being created as a result of the fabricated assignments.

http://www.creditslips.org/creditslips/2009/08/the-alphabet-problem-and-the-pooling-and-servicing-agreements.html

As Gardner explains in a securitized transaction, or series of transactions, it is not possible to have an assignment from A to D. The ONLY way for instruments (p-notes and mortgages) to be deposited into an MBS or Trust is to follow the path required by the Pooling and Servicing Agreement. Gardner doesn't go into it in his post but there is also an issue with regard to timing. New York Trust Law requires that instruments be deposited within 90 days of the closing date of the trust (all Pooling and Servicing Agreements contain language that binds all the parties to New York Law). So, in addition to a chain of title defect, a securitized trust with a closing date in 2005 cannot  conveye the instruments into the trust in 2007. Of the 2000 thousand or so assignments I've reviewed in local land records more than 90% of those involved in foreclosures express an impossible A to D conveyance and also are dated well past the 90 day window.

Another good read would be the case of US Bank v Ibanez in Mass. land court last October, Judge Long presiding. Long wrote an excellent 28 page opinion and order. This case is currently in front of the Mass. Supreme Court. Appellee's Brief was submitted in mid August. I've not yet read the briefs and in fact only obtained copies of the 133 page Appellant's and 66 page Appellee's Briefs over the weekend.

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 8:29:30 PM   
Louve00


Posts: 1674
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Status: offline 		I know exactly what you're talking about BDD.  Albeit, probably not as much as you know, but I know the banks are fabricating deeds because they don't have them, and need them to foreclose.  In that Living Lies site I posted to you on the other mortgage thread you posted, I learned about it there.  It's legal mumbo-jumbo...and intimidating as hell to me, but I try to grasp it because I could be going through this.  Me and my husband refinanced our home when he became sick.  When we did, it was right in the middle, right in the height of that housing bubble.  The loan came with an ARM and I told them then that I couldn't afford to go much higher than the mortgage they were initially giving me.  They assured me there would be no problem refinancing in 18 months and get a fixed rate at that time (and they even said, a fixed rate and more money!!!!!!, they made it sound so unbelievably good!!)  Well, the bubble burst, refinancing again was definitely not an option and my interest rate climbs.  And I work more.  And now, my husbands on disability, so his income is fixed.  By rights, I shouldn't have gotten near what they gave me, because considering my husbands situation, me, on just my income, couldn't afford it.  But I got it and they would have given me more...and my mortgage would be underwater now.  I pay my mortgage to a company that is a loan servicer.  When I ask who I am actually paying my mortgage to...who holds the deed, they tell me it is information they do not have.  I know they're all crooked.  I know they took advantage of people who were lead to believe not only could they afford the refinance, but they could do it again and fix in at a cheaper rate later.  I know they were practically begging you to take out ALL the equity you could on your home....back in 2006, when the market was over inflated, which would now bury you underwater, if you did.  I realize some people just went out and bought or refinanced just for the sake of living beyond their means.  I refinanced a home that I consider my "home".  Now, I'm scuffling to learn all I can to be ready to fight for my home, should I have to.

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/20/2010 8:55:08 PM   
brokedickdog


Posts: 114
Joined: 8/13/2010
Status: offline 		Louve,

You might also like the site: foreclosurehamlet.com

Or the site of Matt Weidner. I can't remember the web address but google would turn it up.

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/21/2010 10:38:42 AM   
brokedickdog


Posts: 114
Joined: 8/13/2010
Status: offline 		Todays early update on this issue:

http://livinglies.wordpress.com/2010/09/21/gmac-halts-foreclosures-admitting-false-affidavits/

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/22/2010 7:40:07 PM   
brokedickdog


Posts: 114
Joined: 8/13/2010
Status: offline 		Stories typically take some time to develop fully. This one is no different. Tentative beginnings but growing more emboldened as investigative journalists dig deeper and check more and more sources. Such is occurring in this story.

The Washington Post is now using the word "forgeries" in the headline of its most recent online article of September 22, 2010, at 9:22 PM (yes, I did check to make sure I wasn't confusing the date/time thing of 9-22-10 at 9:22 PM).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/22/AR2010092206132.html



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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/23/2010 6:22:00 AM   
truckinslave


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quote:

get all their ducks in a row and THEN file suit


WTF???
If that's more complicated than saying the guy is six months behind, well, that's why people hate lawyers.

The rest of us understand that nobody ever was made to sign a mortgage at gunpoint; we also have never known anyone who was paying his mortgaga yet had his house forclosed on.

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1. Islam and sharia are indivisible.
2. Sharia is barbaric, homophobic, violent, and inimical to the most basic Western values (including free speech and freedom of religion). (Yeah, I know: SEE: Irony 101).
ERGO: Islam has no place in America.

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/23/2010 8:58:01 AM   
brokedickdog


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quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

quote:

get all their ducks in a row and THEN file suit


WTF???
If that's more complicated than saying the guy is six months behind, well, that's why people hate lawyers.

The rest of us understand that nobody ever was made to sign a mortgage at gunpoint; we also have never known anyone who was paying his mortgaga yet had his house forclosed on.


Yeah, hating lawyers is common, and often justified.

As for the overly simplistic view you seem to have... Well, mortgages and mortgage lending, securitization, special purpose vehicles, REMIC Trusts, MERS, etc. have laid that simplistic view to bed. It isn't as it was 10 years ago. To view it through that outdated historical lens is akin to taking a club into a modern war against automatic rifles, tanks, SAM's, tactical nukes, etc.

As for people that are current on their payments being foreclosed on anyway it happens. Even more common is people being victimized by a manufactured foreclosure, or mortgage servicing fraud. Google that term and you'll turn up a number of sources of information.

An update on the OP. The Washington Post, in addition to yesterdays story that included the term "forgeries" in the headline, has today made an entreaty to the masses for documents falsely executed by two of the robo-signers. Clearly the W. Post has come around to understanding the depth, breadth and import of this and is gathering more hard data. At this point they are focusing on only two of the robots. In short order either the W. Post, or other media, will begin looking at the many other robots as well.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/political-economy/2010/09/do_you_have_foreclosure_docume.html?sid=ST2010092105907

Given that Stephan and Cotrell, and other robots that have been deposed, have made sworn statements that they fabricate 10,000 or more documents monthly the W. Post is going to be swamped with documents.

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/23/2010 11:25:12 AM   
Fellow


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Status: offline 		I guess, It is safe to assume, in most cases people live free of rent in houses they do not own  and they try to prolong the situation as long as possible. The government policies back this behavior artificially keeping house prices higher than a fair market price would be. Is it true that such policies prolong the depressed economy?

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/23/2010 12:44:32 PM   
brokedickdog


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Status: offline 		I think you've missed the point here. It is the parties (banks, loan servicers, trusts) attempting to foreclose that don't own the houses. 

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RE: Foreclosure Evictions Stopped in 23 States - 9/23/2010 4:38:42 PM   
Fellow


Posts: 1486
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		I just wanted to separate the legal problems and reality. Obviously, the government should intervene at this point, and correct the legal framework. In some cases it becomes impossible to determine who owns the house. One thing is sure: it does not belong to a person who occupies it.

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