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Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Conquer - 9/20/2010 9:32:47 PM   
MistressRosalyn


Posts: 908
Joined: 8/16/2009
Status: offline 		So tonight I was thinking about the current divisions in the US, people who thought that the bailout was great as long as it was Bush who proposed it, but now want to crucify Obama for implementing it. You know, stuff like that. I could probably find about 100 examples without difficulty.

And I got to wondering if the Tea Party members know that they are being played by certain people into rallying behind their agenda...then I wondered if their opponents are equally aware that they are being played.

It brought to mind the scene from POTC where Captain Jack gets the guards for the Interceptor so wrapped up in an argument that they don't notice Jack sneaking off to board the ship.

My question is: Who is boarding our ship? Who wants to distract us with ultimately unimportant things, so they can make off with something precious to us? Because let me tell you, all of these disagreements are ultimately nonsense.

And an even bigger question: If the world faced a threat from another life form from another planet, how fast would all of our differences be forgotten? How quickly would we be humans, instead of Republicans and Democrats, Jews or Muslim, Christian or Atheist?

Would people who face each other across a battlefield today join efforts tomorrow if we were attacked?

If so, in the end, how important are these tiny differences in the big picture of being a human being?

Just wondering...feel free to discuss the main questions. Oh, and there are other places to discuss the 100 other issues, I want this to look at the bigger picture. Thanks.


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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/20/2010 9:38:25 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		My gut instinct now is the same as the last election. The republicans dont want it. But they cant say that and keep their voter base. Next best thing is what you see now.

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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/20/2010 9:41:56 PM   
MistressRosalyn


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Status: offline 		Tazzy, did you get the feeling while watching McCain concede that he was relieved as hell?

But the bigger question is...Who is pulling the strings? Is it the someone here in the country trying to do damage control?

And why can't we just be smart enough to NOT rise to the bait?


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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/20/2010 9:46:16 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		It seemed to me from the moment he was denied Leiberman his whole attitude changed. Cant blame him for the relief part. McCain never struck me as a dumb man. He knew what he was heading into. No one realized it would get as bad as it did, outside the government.

As far as who is pulling the strings? I believe its corporate america. Even now they are holding us all hostage. The only way to get us out of this bad economy is job creation. The only ones who can do that is corporations. The only ones making massive profits is... you guessed it.. corporations. Is it their place? nope. But they have only themselves to blame.

~edited for massive typo corrections.. lol

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 9/20/2010 9:47:37 PM >

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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/20/2010 11:19:19 PM   
MistressRosalyn


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Status: offline 		I thought it was funny that oil was only $30 a barrel when Bush took office, and in no time it was up to $140. Strange, eh? All of our financial difficulties can be traced back to that fact. It happened in the 70's with the Arab Oil Embargo (Remember double digit inflation?)

I agree that the GOP doesn't really want to get control back, because then they would have to actually DO something. Right now, they can sit and point fingers, but the pointing fingers point back to them. And if they haul out the crazies, that will REALLY get the Dems moving to keep the crazy fuckers out of office. It's a nice strategy. Why is that what Rupert Murdoch wants?

And again, is it really Corporate America? Big oil has caused our problems, but is that where the buck stops? Why this effort to divide and conquer the USA?

I have no answers, only more questions.




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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 12:44:25 AM   
Malkinius


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Status: offline 		Greetings Rosalyn....

Years ago when I worked days and listened to a lot of talk radio, one idea that kept being pushed was if you want to know why something was happening, follow the money. Follow the money trails wherever they lead and you will see who is really behind something.

So, the question is, where is the money either behind all this or better yet, who profits from these things happening? Now...before the standard knee-jerk response of "big corporations" are behind anything involving money response comes out...again, try to be more specific. What money is going where? Also realize there is probably money going in a number of directions and places so don't assume only once source for anything this big. Remember that some groups gain at more than one remove. For example, big unions gain money by having more union members who pay more dues (which are usually indexed to wages).

As for whether or not people really would forget our differences in an space alien invasion scenario, most would but there will still be some out for their own gain no matter what happens. I wish that wasn't so, but it is.

Be well....

Malkinius

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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 1:15:40 AM   
MistressRosalyn


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Status: offline 		Malkinius,

Wouldn't the hell of it be if all of this brouhaha was simply designed to sell more news and advertising?

The other trend I'm noticing, (and forgive me for being behind the curve on this...life and death in my world has taken most of my attention), is that people are switching horses in mid stream.

McCain was an advocate of the repeal of DADT whilst running for office, and now he is its biggest (or most vocal) opponent. Why?

Rupert Murdoch's Empire in the US seems to be encouraging the furthest right wingers with the most ridiculous stances to speak up and rally together for change...yet he is decidedly leftist in other parts of his Empire. Why? Is it as I mentioned, to get the Democrats alarmed that perhaps these crazy people might really take hold?

Whatever the reason, it is patently obvious that the conservatives are being horribly manipulated...and so are the liberals. Are all of the hosts on Fox TV aware that they are manipulating people? Are they laughing behind America's collective back when they spew their rhetoric? Are the most obtuse and virulent of posters on the political boards aware of the scam and helping to perpetuate it, or do they really believe their stance?

Thank you for the excellent food for thought. I've often stood on the sidelines of other discussions, some of them rather virulent, and I've admired your intelligent and well-considered posts, so I do appreciate your comments here.

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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 1:25:12 AM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		That's one of the best reasons to vote out all incumbants in November.
We need new blood in Washington!
Having "career politicians" is never a good idea!
Thomas Jefferson had it right, "citizen legislators."

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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 1:36:24 AM   
MistressRosalyn


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Status: offline 		And replace them with whom? People who are endorsed by those who are manipulating you?

But really Popeye, how do YOU feel about being manipulated by people who have their own agenda, which may NOT be the agenda that YOU think you are supporting?


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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 1:51:57 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
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From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRosalyn

So tonight I was thinking about the current divisions in the US, people who thought that the bailout was great as long as it was Bush who proposed it, but now want to crucify Obama for implementing it. You know, stuff like that. I could probably find about 100 examples without difficulty.

And I got to wondering if the Tea Party members know that they are being played by certain people into rallying behind their agenda...then I wondered if their opponents are equally aware that they are being played.

It brought to mind the scene from POTC where Captain Jack gets the guards for the Interceptor so wrapped up in an argument that they don't notice Jack sneaking off to board the ship.

My question is: Who is boarding our ship? Who wants to distract us with ultimately unimportant things, so they can make off with something precious to us? Because let me tell you, all of these disagreements are ultimately nonsense.

And an even bigger question: If the world faced a threat from another life form from another planet, how fast would all of our differences be forgotten? How quickly would we be humans, instead of Republicans and Democrats, Jews or Muslim, Christian or Atheist?

Would people who face each other across a battlefield today join efforts tomorrow if we were attacked?

If so, in the end, how important are these tiny differences in the big picture of being a human being?

Just wondering...feel free to discuss the main questions. Oh, and there are other places to discuss the 100 other issues, I want this to look at the bigger picture. Thanks.



So you have noticed it as well, the partisan squabbling on here and other places, for it is very much a case of divide and conquer. Whilst people are squabbling over who said what in what party, all attention is taken away from what really might be happening, something the conspiracy theorists might have a clue at, but they get panned down as conspiracy theorists, it can't be proved therefore for the majority they are speaking crap. Honestly all it takes is for the set up of an official trusted source that everyone can refer to when they suspect conspiracy to check in on, what better way to quash what actually might be pretty close to the mark. Perhaps sometimes the independent thinkers might be on the ball, but in a world run by a majority who tow the party line, minorities don't stand a chance. If something is not popular, it is not welcome.

On this forum, usually in the early morning UK time I watch the what seems like frenzied activity on a few threads, threads all to do with the political wrangling in the USA, who said what, who is doing what, internal politics, no doubt heightened activity on the run up to the mid term elections. What I see in these threads is name calling, snapping at each other and talk of returns to the bad old days of phobias, racism and the destruction of everything that has been gained, what better way exists to keep voter's eyes off the ball than inflame their passions with intolerance, reach down into the core and attack the very moral fibre of the people or voters as politicians prefer to think of them..

I have watched US elections before, but the activity now seems more intense than ever before, I just have to ask why, what is going on to make people the way they are to each other on an internet forum, for never before have I seen partisan lines being drawn as they are being now, what is it that is at work here, who or what is making out of this situation, as the goal win or lose seems irrelevant, for the damage is being done, people are being divided.

I often wonder what is in the mind of the people that make the movies, what are they trying to say, is it just entertainment, or is there a message there for people to see, for much has been portrayed as entertainment for the masses, but how does a writer come about the plot, could it be a creative reaction to the minute of the world we are in, could entertainment be a teaching tool and those that write fiction be the teachers in this world of bright technology.

As to what might be behind the stirring pot, what could it be, oil, finance, publicity, who knows, but my pet conspiracy is the power of the media and I am wondering just how much they report on and how much they create to catch the public eye.

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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 2:43:47 AM   
Malkinius


Posts: 1814
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Status: offline 		Greetings all....

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

That's one of the best reasons to vote out all incumbants in November.
We need new blood in Washington!
Having "career politicians" is never a good idea!
Thomas Jefferson had it right, "citizen legislators."


This is one case where popeye and I agree. I am at the point of hoisting the broom and voting clean sweep. Every incumbent out. That includes the good and the bad, the ones I like and support and the ones I don't. Yes, it will be a political mess for a few years and yes, the good ones and some of the bad ones will get back in but we will be rid of a lot of people who are best gone and preferably out of politics forever.

Be well....

Malkinius


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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 3:03:33 AM   
MistressRosalyn


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Status: offline 		Good morning Aneirin,

Thank heavens, I'm not the only one who is seeing this stuff!

I am about as non-political as it gets, so for me to even come up for air to see what is happening is amazing in and of itself. I'm not the only one who has become more political (or shall I say, more aware of politics), I'm not the only one who is watching in disbelief as truth is twisted into lies, the left becomes the right, and vice versa.

I have a dear friend who sent me an email, the one about how Dubya went to Fort Hood with no security, no notice, blah, blah.(http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/forthood.asp) So I went to multiple sources to find the truth, and I sent it all to him, and gently chided him to make sure of his facts before he allows his panties to get in a bunch. I later called him, and as he expressed his dismay with "that SOB Obama", I finally told him to stop watching Fox news, and he would be all better very shortly.

This is a good, decent man, who wants (like most people) to believe that Walter Cronkite still exists, and whatever the newscaster tells you MUST be the truth. But he has his prejudices, and it doesn't take much to inflame them. Fortunately, his mind isn't totally closed, so he usually listens to reason. But tell him often enough that health care reform is socialism, and that President Obama is a secret Muslim, and yeah, he will believe what you say, after all, if there is smoke, there is fire, right?

But the problem isn't black and white. Let's take the immigration issue, shall we?
I live in Tombstone, Arizona. Sound familiar? Civil Homeland Defense? Border Vigilantes? Minute Men? They were a mixed bag, and IMHO, Chris Simcox was a few bricks shy of a load, and I knew him pretty well. Talk about a loose cannon! But let's look at the larger picture, and why there is such an divide.

Illegal immigrants are (and have been) jumping the fence. At one time, I lived 5 miles from the border, and they used to run through my property. There are an estimated 12 million in the country. Bad thing, right? But they really are needed for some jobs. So immigrate legally! Right? Sorry, the quota is filled, besides, have you seen the paperwork to immigrate? Good Goddess Almighty! I am a reasonably intelligent person, but the paperwork, and the order that the paperwork should be filed in is daunting.  Not to mention the fees.

So then, OK, jump the fence! But in doing so, they overload the ecosystem in fragile desert environments, and they cause a huge burden on the hospital system when they are found close to death from exposure, heat exhaustion, etc. Also, it is very easy for people who like to fix the vote to register illegal immigrants, who can then vote their absentee ballot. Look up MeCHa. That will tell you some more of the whys and wherefores.

So therefore, I must be against these brown people, right? If so, I'd be hatin' on half of my family. I can't hate black people, because I have them in my family too. I can't even hate Pacific Islanders...dang! This melting pot stuff makes it difficult to be a hater! I can't hate Kenyans, or Brits, or Germans, or Irish, or French or Dutch either. And aince I'm part Amerind, I can't even hate the Natives, and I certainly can't hate the immigrants!

How about A-rabs? I could hate them, right? Sorry, my first husband was Lebanese, technically Arab. And he was an immigrant. And my current husband? Well, you would think that I would be totally FOR any immigration reform, because he is stuck in England for a while, and any reform would make things easier for him and me.

So where do I stand? It's hard to say. There are serious issues to be addressed, and if people would stop name calling and finger pointing, maybe we could work on those things. 

I'm using a common current issue which strongly affects my life, to demonstrate how even good, decent people can have conflicting viewpoints on these issues. It isn't about hating brown people, it's about having our infrastructure overwhelmed.

Now, the question is, news sources could present intelligent discussion about these issues, and they could easily help people decide on a course that would be mutually beneficial...but they don't. Why not? Why divide people, why press buttons and empower the extreme portions of either political party? Is this an attempt to weaken the power of the US? Could there be an ultimate goal of causing such a fuss that it becomes necessary to declare Martial Law? Could we lose our freedoms? Is the motive THAT nefarious?

Or is it just because it sells newspapers and advertising? The fact that people all over the world are just as aware of what is happening in the US as OUR citizens should be an indicator that someone is trying to sell a sideshow to the masses.  I'm sure it must be horribly frustrating to people overseas to see this mess, and wonder what in the name of heaven is going on. Maybe the days of American isolationism were a wiser course!

Anyway, time for me to go to bed, and I will say this to both Popeye and Malkinius...I don't necessarily disagree with doing a clean sweep, but it might make it easier for some REALLY bad ones to get into power. I guess I've read too much Heinlein, it's made me suspicious in my old age!

< Message edited by MistressRosalyn -- 9/21/2010 3:11:11 AM >

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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 6:16:17 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRosalyn
And an even bigger question: If the world faced a threat from another life form from another planet, how fast would all of our differences be forgotten? How quickly would we be humans, instead of Republicans and Democrats, Jews or Muslim, Christian or Atheist?

Would people who face each other across a battlefield today join efforts tomorrow if we were attacked?

It'd probably be handled like any other war in history: there might (possibly) be an uneasy alliance so that no one faction is saddled with all the blame in the even of losing, then in the event of winning it'd be back to business as usual with both sides trying to claim all the credit for themselves.

(Silly suggestion anyway, as everybody knows that alien invasions are traditionally seen off by a British actor in a blue box, rather than any government or armed force...)

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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 8:26:29 AM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		Directly to the original post.

Exactly. You can't beat it into their heads, you can't strap them down with a thousand watt soundsystem, you can't do like they did in The Clockwork Orange. What it's going to take unfortunately is for people to wake up with nothing, and we are almost there.

Consequenses teach, and most simply haven't suffered enough to gain the mental maturity to direct their own attention. Like the guards in the movie you cited (which I haven't seen), they are easily distractable.

That is the key, mental focus. Many times when I focus on a problem I will simply tell people to get out, go away or whatever. Later they tell me about what I missed and I tell them I don't care. I don't know what kind of consequenses it will take, but it is going to have to get pretty rough. It's getting so bad that Parents could be driving their kid home from the doctor after being diagnosed with a serious, life threatening illness and Dad's eyes will still peruse for a nice ass to look at an Mom will fixate on a jewelry store window. It is really that bad.

People are addicts to distraction, and there are omly two possible reasons for that. It is either that they are unable to grasp the real problems facing society, or possibly that they are unwilling to do so, which is even worse because that is a severe form of ignorance.

And you are right, a common foe is very effective at getting people's attention. We actually have one, the people who wrecked this country and a large part of the world economy. However this foe must be recognized as such and as long as people like to bury their head in the sand nothing will change.

If extraterrestrials attacked people would temporarily unite, but as soon as it was over they would quickly return to their greedy ways, bickering over the most inane of issues and squabbling over whatever wealth that might be left behind.

Solving this involves a fundamental change in the people, and while I consider myself fairly smart, it is beyond me. I don't think anyone could do it really.

And when people like me become apathetic about it, there is nothing left.

I am open to suggestions, but in fifty years I have never heard anything even close to a viable solution.

T

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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 9:58:14 AM   
PeonForHer


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'Divide and Conquer' is one of the oldest tools, used by those in power to destroy attacks on that power, in politics.  It was used by Roman emperors to keep down the masses (for instance, 'It's not the Roman State that's making your lives miserable - it's the Christians!').  Shift forward to the 18th Century: black slaves didn't want just freedom and equality, governments said, they wanted to rule.  Shift forward to the early19th Century: the movement for democracy was cast not as one for equal rights to vote, but mob rule over 'persons of quality'. 

Likewise women ('feminists want supremacy over men, no matter what they say').  Arguably, the latest, against a new movement for change is that of the casting of Greens not so much as friends of non-human nature but as enemies of humans.  Each use of it has the same effect: whatever the group at the top is guilty of is ignored, while one or another group at the bottom is now 'the cause' of all the problems of the honest, hard-working masses. 

But it's not generally known as a tool that's used against the right wing of the political spectrum.  I don't think it is here, regarding the Republicans and Tea Party supporters in the USA, either.  I think they have created that divide themselves. 

Just saying.  



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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 10:52:58 AM   
brokedickdog


Posts: 114
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Status: offline 		I think Malkinius nailed it - Follow the Money.

It may not really look like money though.  It could be land, power, gold, control of the production of foodstuffs or potable water, or any other valuable tangibles.

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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 11:10:39 AM   
LaTigresse


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Status: offline 		I think it is moreso, divert/distract and conquer.

It works very well. The partnership between the media and politics is the best example. Get the ignorant masses fired up about the least important shit so that we can sneak the most important shit right past them. Look at the constant list of bullshit topics in this section of forums.

As long as people continue to buy into the mass hysteria of the media, it will continue.


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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 11:54:50 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressRosalyn

And replace them with whom? People who are endorsed by those who are manipulating you?

But really Popeye, how do YOU feel about being manipulated by people who have their own agenda, which may NOT be the agenda that YOU think you are supporting?



M.R. that's one of the best arguments for *term limits* that I've seen lately.
The solution is to have campaigns funded *solely* by the Taxpayers. "Here's $1 million, give it your best shot and you don't get anymore."
But, big business, the t.v. and radio stations who make Billions from advertising and a lot of other people who make money off that stuff wouldn't have it would they?
Another way to do it, if you want to be a congressman/senator put your name in a lottery with everyone else and them pick two names from a big hat to run. Sure, you may get two Alvin Greens once in a while but they're too stupid to do any damage.
And of course the only "agenda" any congressman or senator should have is to do what's right for the country, not what's right for Goldman-Sachs.
Goldman-Sachs needs to be put out of business.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/21/2010 11:56:44 AM >

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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 11:57:10 AM   
pogo4pres


Posts: 593
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Status: offline 		And now for a few words of wisdom from a fictional character, and do speak kindly of me when you quote this, which you inevitably will.



"Rich people have always stayed on top by dividing white people from colored people/but white people got more in common with colored people then they do with rich people/we just gotta eliminate them. White people, black people, brown people, yellow people, get rid of 'em all/ All we need is a voluntary, free spirited, open-ended program of procreative racial deconstruction/ Everybody just gotta keep fuckin' everybody til they're all the same color"          

                                 Senator J. Billington Bulworth



Cinematically,
Some Knucklehead in NJ


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RE: Lessons From Pirates of the Caribbean-Divide and Co... - 9/21/2010 12:13:24 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		My bets it is the heathen chinee.

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