RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (Full Version)

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LadyRian -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 8:28:45 AM)

No.
I've done it before, and the results are never good. Something dies inside a little, every time I do it.  I've discovered that holding to an ethical way of life, while not particularly easy, is a lot easier than the alternative. And there are many, many ethical folk who are also into kink. The concepts of kink and ethical behaviour are not mutually exclusive.

I'm not a fan  of meta-ethical moral relativism. I think there are some limits that are limits for very good reasons. Kids and kink simply don't mix. It's for everyone's protection and safety.

Consenting adults, fine, have fun, that's great. But we need to be responsible adults. The condition of being a parent supersedes kink, I'd say.  Hosting a play party, and expecting a sign on the door to prevent the kiddies from interacting with the kinksters, is, first off, just plain stupid.

But kids and kink notwithstanding, there's a different issue lurking beneath the murky waters of the lake.


The problem, as I see it, is selfishness. Selfishness, a misguided sense of entitlement, and failure to acknowledge personal responsibility.
This is another reason I find normative relativism to be particularly odious. It makes excuses for (and actually provides support for) extreme selfishness. People who oppose others' contentious actions on "moral" grounds, are told that "If it's ok with the people who are doing it, you have no right to judge."  This mantra is trumpeted by the selfish. I've heard it too many times from people who claim to be "good people", but don't care a fig that their behaviour is actually quite harmful. Those they harm are told to "Deal with it. I'm expressing myself".  [sm=m23.gif]

Where did the concepts of right and wrong originate in the first place? Are they nothing more than flimsy constructs of specious idealism? Or do they have substance in and of themselves? Do we, or do we not, have any responsibility to others at all?
I personally believe that yes, we do. Just because one  can do anything at all, doesn't mean one should.
I've learned that the hard way, by ignoring my moral compass in the past.



Edited for spelling



ResidentSadist -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 8:29:22 AM)

State laws vary but in the OP, kids did not participate in the BDSM party.  There is nothing illegal about that whether adults were drinking, fucking or smoking.  However, in ALL states, it is illegal to assault someone with a weapon or flog them with a whip.  If you hit someone with a flogger and it is witnessed . . . by an undercover officer, a disgruntled friend, a pissed off ex or anyone that will testify, it can and has been prosecuted w/o a complaint from the "victim". 

So as far as the party guests are concerned, they were in far more legal danger from the "playing" than from the the fact the host's children were segregated from the adults at a party.  Anything beyond that was the guests superimposing their morals above the hosts using a fake legal concerns as an excuse.  Even the person making the post new it was wrong and did it anonymous to avoid accountability.  As in any good and sane community, fucking flag wavers get shot down, which would explain the why you see this happen repeatedly over the years. 



HisFirstAngel -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 8:31:33 AM)

MC, Sadness just eminates from your post [:(]

I don't ignore my moral compass for kink. I would never play in an area where children are present. Heaven forbid there was an emergency, it can never be guaranteed they won't see what's going on. I would be furious that the home owners were not honest about it. Then I would think, if they are not being honest about that, and the liability does not bother them....then what else are they capable of? The lack of their morals would cause me to question them.



mstrjx -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 8:42:04 AM)

I'll get the boring 'I agree' part of my answer quickly.  At this point, anyone who doesn't agree would 'probably' not get involved in this discussion.

What I suggest going on in that environment is some sort of 'groupthink'.  One person obviously saw the wrongness in the situation and did something about it.  But that's not to say that individually, the people who stayed or supported the leader, they might not have been completely comfortable about the situation but they overlooked it in order to remain 'in' with the group or the leader.

Whether that is the moral compass of which you speak I cannot say.  For myself, although I might believe my own morals to be 'fuzzy', I don't do obviously wrong things:  rape, murder, rob banks, drugs, nothing to get me arrested.  Maybe (just thinking out loud) it isn't because I find certain moral judgment calls reprehensible in and of themselves, but I'm not so much a risk-taker that I would want the consequences of the police or the notoriety that comes with it.

Jeff



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 8:48:05 AM)

Actually, this came up for me recently regarding another issue, and I stand by my original statement. I would not participate in a situation once I became aware that it broached my "ethical compass", nor would I ask a group to change its policies so that I -could- behave in ways that would seem "unethical" just so that I could participate.

In the case of the OP, I have left parties where things were going on that I deemed inappropriate and/or dangerous. I have spoken to the hosts about the same situations, and have, on occasion, spoken out publicly against certain things that occurred that were ethically questionable. Where I think I would differ from the individual in question is that I wouldn't have posted "anonymously". I would have said what I had to say FIRST in person to the hosts, and then publicly using the name by which I was known in the group.

I think that people are, in general, prone to"attack the messenger". It is a cliche for a reason. I think that it is easier to attack the individual who forces us to confront that which we prefer not to have to face, and our viciousness with that person is usually in direct proportion to how -little- we want to acknowledge the information being provided.

I have to say that, despite the issue of anonymity, I respect the courage of the individual who posted that message regarding situation in the OP. To me, it shows a willingness to acknowledge the difficult aspects of decision-making necessary to healthy participation in a fringe activity.

Calla



BonesFromAsh -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 8:53:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I'm just curious. I get not going to them because someone is a private person and just doesn't want to play publically. I just don't the commited part as why someone wouldn't go. [:)]


Not "someone"...me.

Kinda goes back to the original question and how situations can be viewed differently by different people. I gave my opinion....yours appears to be somewhat different...life is good. [;)]



BoiJen -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 8:55:42 AM)

I'd like a link to the discussion the OP is describing.

boi



AquaticSub -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 9:00:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BonesFromAsh


quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

I'm just curious. I get not going to them because someone is a private person and just doesn't want to play publically. I just don't the commited part as why someone wouldn't go. [:)]


Not "someone"...me.

Kinda goes back to the original question and how situations can be viewed differently by different people. I gave my opinion....yours appears to be somewhat different...life is good. [;)]


That's why I asked you. [:)]



Wolf2Bear -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 9:00:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

I've been reading postings on another site regarding a situation in a community that I know no one in. I am using it as an example for this post, not because I want to delve into their specific issues, but because it is a good example to use as a backdrop to consider for a question that I have wondered about for some time as I have seen many instances over the years where people seem to take a similar stance. I don't have any dog in their fight, and maybe that makes me see it differently but...just looking to get people's thoughts.

A brief summary of their issue...

A couple (group leaders) open their private home for public play parties. (By public I mean that they are not private invite parties, they are open to any member of their local community.) At a recent party it came to the attention of one of the attendees that there were minor children in a room in the basement with a note on the door stating that the room was "Off Limits". Just outside of that room the play party was going on. This was a huge concern to the attendee because they felt that having minor children on the premises significantly upped the legal risk factor (not to mention their own moral or ethical beliefs) to all in attendance and that they felt that attendees should have been made aware that the children were present just beyond that door so that they could make their own decisions regarding their participation and attendance at the party. This attendee left the party when they became aware and proceeded to make a post on the group's message board informing other members of the situation. They made the post anonymously instead of using their own user ID, a decision that resulted in much controversy. In response, the party host has made another posting declaring that he will no longer host parties.

What surprised me about it, and what has surprised me on several other occasions over the years, is that the "messenger" is being strongly chastised and criticized...but the party host, who in my opinion has made a very poor decision regarding these minors AND the safety and well being of his guests, is being applauded and supported in huge numbers. I might also add that the host does not seem to be taking any responsibility for that decision and is taking the stand of "look at all I've done for you all, how dare anyone question me?". Surely there can not be many people who honestly believe it is ok to have young children present at a BDSM party...and yet the vast majority is expressing support to this host and speaking of how saddened they are that he has decided to cancel future parties...a decision that will severely limit their possibilities to find play partners and get their kink on.

I have seen similar displays of support over the years when someone who provides an avenue for others kink gets called out on their poor decisions or behavior. It seems that the majority of the people will support whoever provides the party regardless of the infraction.

?????


In regards to your example, I honestly am not sure how I would react. Probably it would depend on being in that situation and seeing if my own sense of right or wrong morally felt wrong enough to say something or try to ignore it.

Overall, yes I have ignored my sense of morality to indulge in my kink at that time. I found there are many variables and one being what frame of mind I am in and the situation. When I am in as et of circumstances that I'm very comfortable, then my moral compass is on a down slide and my judgment is mostly influenced by my carnal wants then thinking things through first. I mean sometimes that need to indulge first and will deal with the repercussions later.



Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 9:10:32 AM)

Depending on the morals I am ignoring  might.  If it's going to get me arrested fined or a public record, no, if it's something small to me like not having a one night stand, or the one time I was going to enter into an online daddy baby relationship with a married man, and married men are against my morals, yes. I will ignore my morals to do something kinky if the ignored moral isn't to steep.


Hey, at least I am honest.





BoiJen -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 9:16:20 AM)

Thnaks.

boi



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 9:16:47 AM)

Holy MOLY!!

I cannot fathom anyone being so incredibly stupid as to have a PARTY a wall away from minor children!! How on earth did they explain THAT away to the kids?

NOT acceptable, not ever. And of course, Erin, you know that I would have happily blown the whistle under my very own name! [:D]



LadyPact -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 9:26:06 AM)

No, I don't skip My morals for My kink's sake.  I tend to go toward the more conservative side on most issues.

There have been a lot of occasions over the years that I didn't play in My own home because it isn't a case of My husband and I playing together.  For a long time My husband and I had the agreement that there would not be play partners brought into our home because of the very fact that we had minor children in the house.  Only someone who was being considered to be collared could be under our roof at all.  Anybody on a casual basis would be played with somewhere else.  We spent a good chunk of change on hotels during that period.

I've served as a "community leader" in a town that didn't have a public dungeon.  For every event that the group had that was going to have a play party, we had a contract between the group on the owner of the home where the party was going to be held.  In that contract, there was a specific clause that no person under the age of eighteen could be on the premises during the time that the group would be there.  That included those under age who lived there.  If we were going to use the property, they would have to be somewhere else.  We actually had to make a last minute change on location once because the contract couldn't be upheld by the host.

Like some of the others, I wouldn't have done this anonymously.  I'd have put My own name on it and I wouldn't have cared how the rest of the group chewed Me out for it.  I'd be more than willing to find Myself another munch group to associate with.



jujubeeMB -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 9:36:04 AM)

Nope, my moral compass is the most important thing about me. I would sooner give up my sex life entirely than ignore my morals, because what I believe in is good, and strong, and well thought-out. I think personally that anyone who doesn't have a personal moral code is wavering on the brink of dangerous, and having a play party with children a door away is just plain wrong. Too much work to do today to write as much as I'd like on the subject, but maybe that's a good thing [;)]



ranja -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 10:01:42 AM)

i don't much like people complaining anonimously about stuff, if anyone has a problem they should be up front

i don't know how safe the situation was... it does not have to be a problem at all to have sex in a house where there are children... i have sex with my Husband and we have a child... and regularly we have guests... they might have sex while me and my Husband and my child are in the house, i don't know... our house is big enough and the doors heavy and lockable enough for things to be totally acceptable.

We do not invite people to come and have sex all over our house, but if we did it would be safe and i would not feel obliged to tell everybody that we have a child on the premises.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 10:09:05 AM)

Ranja, what you are doing is just living life. Could you imagine having the kids shut in the bedroom while a PLAY PARTY was happening right in the next room?




ranja -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 10:13:31 AM)

what i am saying is that some people have a house that is plenty big enough to host a party while the nanny in the granny flat en-suite behind the double locked fire door looks after the children

i do not jump to the conclusion that this is a totally rediculous unsafe party



LadyHibiscus -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 10:22:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

what i am saying is that some people have a house that is plenty big enough to host a party while the nanny in the granny flat en-suite behind the double locked fire door looks after the children

i do not jump to the conclusion that this is a totally rediculous unsafe party




Very true. I read the stuff over on Fet, and the description given was that the kids were in their bedroom, while the party went on allll around them. I guess there was a baby monitor, no adults watching them.



DarkSteven -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 11:31:34 AM)

Did this party take place in the US? If not, this may not have been illegal, although I still wouldn't condone it.



bliss4us09 -> RE: Do you ignore your moral compass to get your kink on? (9/21/2010 11:44:27 AM)

It could be that a majority of those who voiced an opinion on the message board supported the errant host but that other attendees or prospective future attendees appreciated the information and did not feel compelled to comment. In general, it seems likely that folks who feel aggrieved (in this case morons who feel they're losing a party venue) are most like to speak up, no?



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