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Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive to le... - 9/21/2010 11:31:56 AM   
Pyramus


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I think I've thrust myself into a learning experience slightly beyond my experiences, which is thrilling in and of itself, but where I'm sufficiently green to seek your advice.

I'm meeting a sub that I met through a friend but who the friend barely knew (she met her once at Edges a while back). I've spoken by phone and exchanged the emails sufficient to see we do have mutual interests.

She's a self-described 'kinky freak' who wishes to be taken to 'her' limits, but she doesn't know what they are. I'm (as can be seen by my profile), rather light and more sensual than sadistic (although tweaking a nipple just to garner that delicious feminine reaction, with that lovely womanly groan and body twitch to get away is one of my loftiest pleasures).

I certainly can play the D/s roles with her bound and me using her for my pleasure, and, while I relish the idea of gradually taking her up the ladder to her limits, I would welcome any suggestions or ideas you have for doing so.

I know some will say what MY limits are, and they're the usual (scat, drugs, blood, kids, animals, "real" pain, "real" welts, needles, weapons, etc.)  ... but other than those rather far-off items ... what would YOU suggest to me to help me be learn more and train her better to reach HER limits?
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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/21/2010 11:39:21 AM   
DarkSteven


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She's new. So,this talk of being taken to her limits is only talk.

Tie her up, pinch her nipples, spank her. Do the stuff you know and like and see how she responds.

If she still wants more, then you can try the more exotic stuff.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/21/2010 11:46:02 AM   
LadyPact


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She's got to have some kind of clue.  If she's attended at Edges, she's at least had the opportunity to watch other people's scenes and know what does and doesn't interest her.

I happen to agree with Steven.  If neither of you know what kinds of play would actually be pushing her, start small and work your way up.  Most folks don't necessarily go balls to the wall with someone that they are playing with for the first time anyway.  Depending on how that goes, you'll know how to proceed.

If you do want to get into the more intense things as time goes on, there really isn't anything wrong with a BDSM checklist to see where your mutual interests lie.  Some people don't like them, but the way I see it, why not?  It doesn't sound like she's being very descriptive of the areas where she does want to be 'pushed', so why not have topics to discuss.  It may help her to actually think about various activities rather than just thinking about the whole of BDSM.


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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/21/2010 11:50:31 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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I have met folks who go from 0-60 in the first scene. I agree, the checklist might be a good idea here, to see where she is going with the "freaky" thing.

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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/21/2010 12:06:48 PM   
LadyRian


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I agree with what's been said already.  I'd like to add, however, that it can be disconcerting to discover that the submissive's limits may possibly go  far, far beyond the Dominant's. Not saying this is the case, but you might want to consider being prepared for that. What would you do if this situation was encountered?

< Message edited by LadyRian -- 9/21/2010 12:07:52 PM >


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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/21/2010 1:21:44 PM   
Pyramus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

She's new ... is only talk ...pinch her nipples... Do the stuff you know... and ... If she still wants more...


Hi DarkSteven,
I'm impressed you realized she's "new" as I didn't say that (spoke with her on the phone at length and she's definitely new). At Edges, for example, she just walked around, "exploring", but did nothing. She's never heard of a munch. She's never heard of the Power Exchange, Citadel, all that.

She HAS been to swing clubs and loved them and she's had a kinky boyfriend in the past.

So, her "mind" isn't new; but her body is. :)

I certainly can start with what I like and enjoy ... (and I will!) ...

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/21/2010 1:24:39 PM   
Pyramus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
...isn't anything wrong with a BDSM checklist...


Sounds so, um ... er ... 'clinical' to go over the checklist ... but I must admit, I've gotten a hardon or three reading profiles here where the womanfolk list such activities checked ... so it DOES work, to a degree.

Maybe I'll print out the CM checklist as a starter. Or if I take her to a hotel, we can peruse it online. I was gonna take her to the hot tubs though, and for that I'd need the checklist.

(in reply to LadyPact)
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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/21/2010 1:31:22 PM   
Pyramus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyRian
What would you do if this situation was encountered?


My "mind" can carry the scene to the limit, down to whipping the tits of the unruly slave girl 'till she begs to be given a chance to prove herself again, and shoving, forcefully, plugs of skinned ginger up her hole while she gags on my cock and spits out in humiliation, again, crying tears and pleading for the opportunity to redeem herself between mouthfuls.

In person however, my "body" can't go anywhere near that far. I can't cause "real" pain, nor "real" humiliation, nor a real body reaction, other than your basic pleasure/pain combination ... But I'm also "very OK" if I happen to fail miserably if her "freaky needs" are that  level (if she needs to be taken as far as my mind is capable, which is to totally dominate her and use her as a sexual object for my pleasure).

If she needed it to go that far, it would merely mean we're not for each other ... (no value judgment here).

Anyway, I like the idea of starting with what I know best, and taking it by notches upward, and I can see where the checklist will help. 

I was also thinking of not only telling her she must accept every toy in my kit for at least fifteen minutes ... but also taking her to a boutique store in San Jose (I forget where it is so I'd better plan ahead) and having her pick out an implement to be used on her later in the day.

PS: She read the Beauty trilogy and loved them, especially the humiliation of the slaves as they were being trained...


< Message edited by Pyramus -- 9/21/2010 1:34:51 PM >

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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/21/2010 7:40:09 PM   
mstrjx


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From my early experience.... (for what it's worth)

I realized early on that it would be possible for a 'bottom' (so to speak, rather than submissive) to have more experience than I, and that it would be possible that she might be bored by a light experience if that is all I was mentally capable of giving.

So I swore that would never happen. 

I wasn't going to be the limiting factor.  I was going to learn how to un-squick myself and man up.

It worked.  I quickly became able to 'lead' a session, rather than 'follow'.  In time, this experience worked well for me in what I call one of my 'defining moments'.  But that's for another thread another day.

Jeff

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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/22/2010 4:31:11 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyramus

Hi DarkSteven,
I'm impressed you realized she's "new" as I didn't say that



You said that she wanted to be taken to her limits but didn't know what they are.  That said "new" to me.

If you do end up going beyond your usual, then I suggest the kinky checklist, followed by the two of you researching the how-to aspect.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Pyramus)
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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/22/2010 7:27:38 AM   
sexyred1


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Joined: 8/9/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyramus

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyRian
What would you do if this situation was encountered?


My "mind" can carry the scene to the limit, down to whipping the tits of the unruly slave girl 'till she begs to be given a chance to prove herself again, and shoving, forcefully, plugs of skinned ginger up her hole while she gags on my cock and spits out in humiliation, again, crying tears and pleading for the opportunity to redeem herself between mouthfuls.

In person however, my "body" can't go anywhere near that far. I can't cause "real" pain, nor "real" humiliation, nor a real body reaction, other than your basic pleasure/pain combination ... But I'm also "very OK" if I happen to fail miserably if her "freaky needs" are that  level (if she needs to be taken as far as my mind is capable, which is to totally dominate her and use her as a sexual object for my pleasure).

If she needed it to go that far, it would merely mean we're not for each other ... (no value judgment here).

Anyway, I like the idea of starting with what I know best, and taking it by notches upward, and I can see where the checklist will help. 

I was also thinking of not only telling her she must accept every toy in my kit for at least fifteen minutes ... but also taking her to a boutique store in San Jose (I forget where it is so I'd better plan ahead) and having her pick out an implement to be used on her later in the day.

PS: She read the Beauty trilogy and loved them, especially the humiliation of the slaves as they were being trained...



It sounds to me like you are both new, both enamored of BDSM porn and having overly high expectations for a first time.

How about getting together and just hanging out to see how the conversation goes?

If someone new approached me with a checklist or told me they wanted to experiment with what they read in books, I would say, slow down sparky, let's see where chemistry and compatibility leads us.

In addition, it seems you are not as hard core as she may want to be (even though god knows if she even knows what she is), so this may all be a moot point if you are not compatible in the levels of kink you are willing to explore.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 9/22/2010 7:29:01 AM >

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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/22/2010 12:56:58 PM   
BreathandStone


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Pyramus, I'm going to tell you something that you already know. Real life is different from fantasy. Things that are amazingly sexy in fantasies, and even things that are very sexy when you see them happen to someone else, can be quite different to experience first-hand. This goes double for a bottom. Things like pain, things like restraint, things like not being in control are very different first-hand than they are in your mind.

quote:


So, her "mind" isn't new; but her body is.


Don't think of this as finding out what her body can take. Her mind is just as new to this as her body. If you come into this hoping to give her an extreme, edgy experience, you'll probably just give her a bad one. When (if) you meet up with this woman, start small, ramp up slowly, and take your time finding out how much both of you want. If you start off soft, you can always hit her harder. If you hit her too hard at first, she may shut down before the fun even starts. This is especially true with a newbie. Where a seasoned masochist may be willing to tough it through the bad pain to get to the good, someone who has never been hurt in a consensual way is liable to decide that she doesn't actually like pain in real life.

Imagine that you're dealing with a woman who has just come to you and asked you to help her find out how far she can run. She's never done more than go around a high school track a few times, but she thinks about it a lot, and she once dated a runner, and she watched the Boston Marathon last year. You are (to extend the metaphor) asking for places where she can safely run until she collapses, and trying to figure out if your little golf cart can follow her the whole way. Doing it this way may teach you something, but it misses the point. People don't have a static LIMIT, handed down from the sky, that you simply need the right tools and techniques to discover. She can take various amounts of various things, and these amount will vary depending on who she's playing with, how you're doing it, her experience levels, her mood, the time of the month...a thousand things.

I'm not saying that new players should pussyfoot around and stick to light spankings and silk-scarf bondage. If you want to play hard, play hard. Make sure you know damn well how to do it safely (an, if applicable, have taken appropriate classes and practiced), because playing hard is more dangerous, but don't limit yourself to lukewarm scenes. Figure out the most depraved things that the two of you would want to do on a first playdate. Come prepared to do them. Come prepared with a backup plan, too, in case she can't handle the reality of it.

I'm going to close with a few bits of advice. First, don't let your heart break if things don't go through with this woman. In my experience, people who talk about wanting to find their limits but have no real experience...well, the tend to stay people who talk about wanting to find their limits but have no real experience. If she wants to do extreme things with a near stranger, she's thinking with her libido, not her head. Doing this tends to get you hurt. If she hasn't gotten hurt, it's because she tends to come to her senses and back out. You don't seem dangerous, but she may follow the same pattern with you.

On being a new Dom: It took me time and practice to learn to read people, to see where their tolerance is. I rarely rely on safewords and verbal communication these days, because I can read body language pretty well. (I often have new partners tell me that I stopped right before they were about to ask me to. I'm not looking for signs that they might safeword, I just know intuitively how much most people can take.) You don't know her well, she doesn't know you well, and you probably don't have a lot of practice reading people in pain. Don't be afraid to ask questions and listen to what she says. I know that sadists are supposed to be all uncaring and stuff but a little bit of "Good?" "Bad?" "Too much?" "Too little?" goes a long way.

Don't underestimate the impact of warm-ups. I'm not saying that you have to use them (that's choice and style) but be aware that being hit with a big paddle or some such is a lot easier to take when your body is full of endorphins and your skin is getting numb. Hitting too hard too fast often leads the bottom to end scenes early.

Finally? Remember that this is supposed to be fun for both of you. You wouldn't do something to her that would make her upset or uncomfortable - don't do something that will have the same effect on you. Be giving, be good, be game, but don't forget that you have to take care of yourself first.


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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/23/2010 7:45:50 AM   
DesFIP


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Don't go into this with the avowed purpose of pushing her to her limit at which point play stops abruptly for both. Is that really what you want, to say "Ha ha, I knew you couldn't take it" while she's crying and desperate to get away from you?

Obviously not. What you want is a win/win situation instead. Just explore and have lots of feedback. And focus on the 5 things that both of you most enjoy. So if you love tying women up and she loves being tied, do a lot of that. Don't aim for the stuff she most dislikes, do the stuff you have in common. Remember, this isn't a one time only deal, or it shouldn't be. It should be pleasurable for both so that both of you want to come back and do it again. And again.


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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/24/2010 9:29:30 AM   
Pyramus


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This advice is all wonderful, and, surprisingly astute! You knew things I didn't say and some I didn't even know were the situation as it really stands.

I'm meeting her tonight at the southern-cross munch, which I figured was as good a venue as any other.

Will let you know how it goes with respect to the advice.

Thanks fellow pervs!

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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/24/2010 5:30:19 PM   
LadyRian


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I hope it goes well for you both!



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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/24/2010 8:10:17 PM   
MalcolmNathaniel


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I know I'm a bit late to the party, but for future reference: my advice is to take it slow.

She can always ask for more, she can't ask for less.

Not just _what_ you are doing, but how you are doing it.

Take a good long time tying those knots, start spanking lightly and get harder as the spanking progresses.

Here is a good beginners tie that looks and feels all "bondagey" but is rather easy to learn - and safe.  It takes more rope than you'd think so use long pieces.

There are three knots you need to know first: The bowline, the slipknot and the double half-hitch; you can find directions on the net.

Start with a bowline, but at the point where the "rabbit goes through the hole" go back around the wrist/ankle again and go through the hole again.  Then finish off the knot.

This gives a pretty tie that looks like a cuff.  In addition, the knot will knot tighten no matter how hard she pulls, and she'll be pulling against three widths of rope instead of one.  By untying the short end you can remove it in a hurry in an emergency (like her hands are turning blue.)

Next, right up against the first know tie a slip knot, then add a series of small slipknots, each going through loop before it - keep it taught.  Finish this part off by taking the remaining rope through the final loop.

This gives a "chain" that she can wrap her hands around and looks nice. Also, she will feel every tug as you put the slipknots in place, heightening anticipation.

Finally tie a double half-hitch around whatever you are securing the limb to (bedpost, iron ring in the wall, etc.)

The double half-hitch has the nice benefit that you can tighten or loosen the entire rig by sliding the collar of the knot - but she can't control it from her end no matter how hard she pulls.

So, that's one limb.  You can do this with as many limbs as you wish (two or four is most common.)  Slide the half-hitches for desired tension in her limbs.

Untying:  you can just undo the bowline, but that is boring.

Untie the half-hitch and the end of the rope you let through the slip knots.  This part is cool: slowly pull on the rope and all those slipknots will pop out one by one, almost appearing to evaporate.  Now, by pulling the long end through the rope will slide over her skin as you undo each of the three loops.

Do that last bit slowly for two reasons:
1) It is more sensual
2) Rope burns are most definitely _not_ sexy (except to a very few practitioners.)

You might want to practice this over and over on a chair leg or something until your next meeting.

Good luck.

(in reply to LadyRian)
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RE: Advice to take a self-described freaky submissive t... - 9/24/2010 11:37:36 PM   
roughleather


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You're going at this wrong. Don't try to find her limits. Find out what really turns her on. Find her hot buttons and push them.

If she's into exhibitionism, we have several hot days coming up, plus it's Folsom weekend. Take her up to SF in something skimpy and see what that does for her.

Try some light bondage and make her work for it. Tie her wrists behind her back and have her give you a nude backrub,

If she's tough enough to enjoy wrestling with you, try that as foreplay. This is a good way to separate the "I've always fantasized about rough sex" types from the ones who can actually handle it.

As a submission, tell her that she must keep her head below your hand. Force her to her knees without touching her, by hand signals alone. Once she's used to that, force her face into the floor, again without touching her. Then make her crawl.

Then you'll know what gets her going.

All this stuff is safe, and it pushes emotional buttons. It's a lot more fun to get her in touch with her inner slut this way than by comparing checklists.





(in reply to Pyramus)
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