RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 5:22:17 PM)



I do understand where popeye is coming from. Laws should be basic and clear in their penalties and intent and there should be as few as possible to keep the system simple, fair, and easily understood by the people that must abide by them.

As an example assault should be assault and the penalty should be the same whether for a mugging for money or an assault because of sexual orientation.

There does not need to be any more laws for or against gays in the military…just do away with existing policy and enforce laws on the books for sexual discrimination.

Butch




jlf1961 -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 5:23:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

Who were the two Dems that voted with the Reps ?


Senators Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor, both Democrats from Arkansas.

quote:


CNN Poll: Nearly 8 in 10 favor gays in the military
Posted: May 25th, 2010 10:19 AM ET

(CNN) - Most Americans say people who are openly gay should be allowed to serve in the U.S. military, according to a new national poll.

A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Tuesday indicates that 78 percent of the public supports allowing openly gay people to serve in the military, with one in five opposed.

"Support is widespread, even among Republicans. Nearly six in ten Republicans favor allowing openly gay individuals to serve in the military," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "There is a gender gap, with 85 percent of women and 71 percent of men favoring the change, but support remains high among both groups."



The sad fact is not only did the Republicans BLOCK the debate on the WHOLE bill, which was the Defense Appropriations Bill, which included a pay raise for service members.

The majority of Americans support repeal of DADT, it has already been declared unconstitutional, which SHOULD have been a hint to the Republicans that it is going to go away one way or another.

Republicans seem to be catering to the Christian Right who are against the repeal.

Countries that allow homosexuals to serve in the military :

Albania, Argentina, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Colombia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Lithuania, Luxembourg,
Malta, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Romania, Russia, Slovenia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, United Kingdom, Bermuda, Uruguay.

Seems our allies don't have a problem with gays in the military.

Perhaps the Republicans would like us compared to countries like China, Cuba, and North Korea to name a few.




popeye1250 -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 6:09:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yeah....fuck all of this "law" shit....lets just make it up as we go along [8|].



Mike, this is a *great example* of needing "less" government in our lives not more.
Why should our congress be "deciding" what gays can or cannot do?




Hillwilliam -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 6:18:00 PM)

I'm gonna paraphrase Larry The Cable guy on this one


You need gays in the military as well as women.

What you do is this. first, you send in the straight men to start things off. Then, if they get bogged down, once every 28 days, you send in a bunch of PMSing women with guns. After the battles are over, you send in the gays to redecorate.


Problem solved.




slvemike4u -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 6:18:44 PM)

Agreed...therefor repeal the silly policy.Simple right




jlf1961 -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 6:33:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


Mike, this is a *great example* of needing "less" government in our lives not more.
Why should our congress be "deciding" what gays can or cannot do?


Are you serious?

First it was illegal for gays to be in the military, even if they did not admit to being gay. If they were found out it was a criminal act under the UCMJ.

Then President Clinton tried to get it repealed and instead we ended up with DADT, WHICH should have meant that the military would not do anything to a service person UNLESS they openly admitted they were gay. INSTEAD, if there was a suspicion of someone being gay or lesbian, an investigation was started and the person was called in and ASKED if they were gay, which goes against DADT, after which further investigation would be started, going all the way up to the branch commander's office who had the authority to not discharge the individual or discharge them.

More than 13500 service members have been fired under the law since 1994.

It is going to take an act of congress to repeal the policy OR a court case.

FYI, federal district court Judge Virginia Phillips concurs with the GOP gay group, saying DADT is unconstitutional because it violates the rights of gays and lesbians under the First and Fifth amendments.

This means if the US Justice Department does not appeal the decision, the declaration stands and it will be repealed under a court order.




Mistletoe -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 6:39:15 PM)

I think it should not have been repealed now even though I do want it repealed. Why blame just the Republicans when Democrats also voted against this. I think it is shady to attach polices onto bills that should have their own separate vote. This practice of stuffing controversial legislation into good bills has been going on for far to long. Thankfully this bill was stopped from going through. We do not need the Dream Act to be passed.




slvemike4u -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 6:43:28 PM)

Why not?




Mistletoe -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 6:57:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why not?


I generally stay away from political threads.  I have found most online political threads deteriorate to the point I no longer have any interest in the replies. So I shall leave the question you asked with answer that ...I simply do not approve of the Dream Act and will continue to work in my community to keep it from being passed.




popeye1250 -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 6:58:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


Mike, this is a *great example* of needing "less" government in our lives not more.
Why should our congress be "deciding" what gays can or cannot do?


Are you serious?

First it was illegal for gays to be in the military, even if they did not admit to being gay. If they were found out it was a criminal act under the UCMJ.

Then President Clinton tried to get it repealed and instead we ended up with DADT, WHICH should have meant that the military would not do anything to a service person UNLESS they openly admitted they were gay. INSTEAD, if there was a suspicion of someone being gay or lesbian, an investigation was started and the person was called in and ASKED if they were gay, which goes against DADT, after which further investigation would be started, going all the way up to the branch commander's office who had the authority to not discharge the individual or discharge them.

More than 13500 service members have been fired under the law since 1994.

It is going to take an act of congress to repeal the policy OR a court case.

FYI, federal district court Judge Virginia Phillips concurs with the GOP gay group, saying DADT is unconstitutional because it violates the rights of gays and lesbians under the First and Fifth amendments.

This means if the US Justice Department does not appeal the decision, the declaration stands and it will be repealed under a court order.


JLF, I get it but I don't think we should be restricting what someone who just happens to be gay can choose for their career.
If someone wants to serve in the military who gives a shit if they're gay or not?




slvemike4u -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 7:05:46 PM)

Sorry Mistletoe I can find nothing objectionable with the Dream Act.....and am having some difficulty imagining what it is about it that you find objectionable




tazzygirl -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 7:15:21 PM)

Its easy to say you are against something, mike. Harder to explain why sometimes. Know what i mean?




slvemike4u -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 7:24:59 PM)

Yes Tazzy ..I realise some have issues with any plan that allows any illegal a "path" to citizenship.....but this law is specifically aimed at those who were brought here,admittedly illegally,as children.Who now find themselves in a no-win situation....I allways thought it was a bedrock of our legal/moral system that we do not burden children with the sins of their fathers.
Guess that doesn't apply to brown children.




tazzygirl -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 7:34:23 PM)

I find it confusing that we give citizenship to soldiers, but not to their immediate families (meaning wives and minor children). Who else are they fighting for but family and country?




slvemike4u -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 7:44:10 PM)

Well correct me if I'm wrong Taz,but once the ,for arguments sake,father has been granted his citizenship does that not grease the skids (so to speak) for wife and children to be naturalized.Or is their "illegal" presence here still an insurmountable roadblock to citizenship?
Sadly I have an idea as to the answer to that question.




tazzygirl -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 7:46:08 PM)

You would be right. Any child not born here would not be a natural citizen.. nor the wife. We have seen too many cases in the news where wives are being deported even though the husband is in the service.




slvemike4u -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 7:52:28 PM)

Strange way to do business...considering we are a nation of immigrants.




rulemylife -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 7:52:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Yeah....fuck all of this "law" shit....lets just make it up as we go along [8|].



Mike, this is a *great example* of needing "less" government in our lives not more.
Why should our congress be "deciding" what gays can or cannot do?


Hey there Mr. Moderate Independent Less Government.

Doesn't repealing a law mean there is less government?




rulemylife -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 7:58:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mistletoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why not?


I generally stay away from political threads.  I have found most online political threads deteriorate to the point I no longer have any interest in the replies. So I shall leave the question you asked with answer that ...I simply do not approve of the Dream Act and will continue to work in my community to keep it from being passed.



Then stay away.

There is no need to tell us how you disapprove of political arguments because those things are so beneath you.




rulemylife -> RE: Republicans block bill to lift military gay ban (9/21/2010 8:02:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

You and I...like it or not...must understand they, the Republicans, are representing the wishes of their supporters. So putting the blame on their shoulders is wrong. The blame lies with the American people as a whole who are still prejudice towards homosexuals...and this includes all political parties.

Butch


Is that right?

Poll: 78 percent favor repealing 'Don't ask, don't tell'





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