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Born Rich - 9/21/2010 11:32:59 PM

Hippiekinkster

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Documentary by Johnson & Johnson heir Jamie Johnson. He interviews a whole bunch of trust-fund babies.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0342143/
(I haven't verified that one can watch the film via this link. I'm watching it on Netflix)

These are the people that the politicians, mainly the Repubs, are in thrall (enslaved) to.

This is precisely why estates need to be taxed out of existenz.

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 12:06:13 AM

Real0ne

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how do you plan to do that without destroying trust law?

I bet the crown would be really pissed at you.

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 12:38:09 AM

Hippiekinkster

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Old Man Johnson (Jamie's father): "You're in control of this film, and I'm not, and that makes me nervous" (paraphrased)

That is the American Aristocracy/Oligarchy in a nutshell. They need to control everything to keep the demons away. They control the corporations via interlocking directorships, as well as equity ownership. They control both political parties. They control the military, which does their bidding, indirectly. They control the banking infrastructure. They control the manufacturing base. They want to destroy Unions because Unions are a direct threat to their power.

I have thought for quite some time that the political structure of the US was deliberately engineered to provide a quasi-legitimate legal structure for exploiting less-developed nations. It started out that way, but not with that goal. The goal in 1776 was to create a governmental structure that would allow those who were the power brokers, and their financiers, to maintain their estates in Perpetuity. The goal was to create a nation which was dedicated to the preservation of the wealth of the rich. Our military serves to maintain the cash flow of the rich.

It is often claimed that Iraq was invaded to topple Saddam, and introduce "Democracy". But if one reads, really analyzes, the Manifesto of the "Project for a New American Century", one realizes that the goal was to create a Randian nation where there were no restraints on trade, such as tarriffs, import duties, and the like. The Neocons, like William Crystol and Robert Kagan, were committed to developing a test case for unregulated Trade. That's what Iraq IS all about. And that's what they did, with the whole-hearted cooperation of the Chimp. The Neocons, who are basically the PAC of the rich owners of America, don't much give a shit if the Proles take drugs, watch subsersive films and TV, read anti-neocon writings, or hold anti-Neocon/anti-establishment views. As long as, in the end, their control is absolute.

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 4:21:11 AM

flcouple2009

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So we start with some trust fund kids who happen to be useless blobs living off their fund. (I can pretty much guarantee with a trust fund of that size at 20, I wouldn't have been a fine upstanding citizen either)

We leap from there to Bush invading Iraq as an unregulated trade experiment for some pals to the founding fathers setting up America for the purpose of preserving their estates forever.

Dude, don't you think some of this is just a little

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 4:57:05 AM

DarkSteven

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Okay, my disclaimer is that I didn't watch the link. BUT:

1. There are people whose inherited wealth makes them not need to work. Trust fund babies, if you will.
2. Some of them (think Paris Hilton) are wastes of humanity.
3. You believe that their wasteliness is related to their lack of need to work.
4. Your solution is for the government to tax away their inherited wealth.

This assumes that the money is the government's to take. Even the most pro-tax people will tell you that the purpose behind raising taxes is because the government needs the money for its various projects. The radical concept that the government decides that you should not have the money scares hell out of me. Even worse is that the government uses taxes to execute value judgements on its part.

The government is responsible for enforcing laws that define acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Boorish, selfish behavior is not illegal, and is punished through social means like having one's friends driven away. As it should be.

Tax policies have been used to drive desired behavior for years - for example, the mortgage deduction helps drive real estate. But your proposal goes way beyond that and uses tax policy for social engineering - which also scares the hell out of me.

< Message edited by DarkSteven -- 9/22/2010 5:11:59 AM >

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 5:09:30 AM

GreedyTop

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~FR~

I kinda wish I'd been born rich, instead of CUTE.. with enough money, I coulda BOUGHT the cuteness LOL

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 5:15:19 AM

servantforuse

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I agree with Steven. The government is already taking to much money from those that have it and giving it away to those who don't have it.

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 6:28:46 AM

thishereboi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Okay, my disclaimer is that I didn't watch the link. BUT:

1. There are people whose inherited wealth makes them not need to work. Trust fund babies, if you will.
2. Some of them (think Paris Hilton) are wastes of humanity.
3. You believe that their wasteliness is related to their lack of need to work.
4. Your solution is for the government to tax away their inherited wealth.

This assumes that the money is the government's to take. Even the most pro-tax people will tell you that the purpose behind raising taxes is because the government needs the money for its various projects. The radical concept that the government decides that you should not have the money scares hell out of me. Even worse is that the government uses taxes to execute value judgements on its part.

The government is responsible for enforcing laws that define acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Boorish, selfish behavior is not illegal, and is punished through social means like having one's friends driven away. As it should be.

Tax policies have been used to drive desired behavior for years - for example, the mortgage deduction helps drive real estate. But your proposal goes way beyond that and uses tax policy for social engineering - which also scares the hell out of me.

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 6:32:44 AM

Termyn8or

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"This is precisely why estates need to be taxed out of existenz."

Ummmm, you do realize that is one of the planks of the Communist Manifesto right ?

T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 9/22/2010 6:33:13 AM >

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 6:42:08 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I agree with Steven. The government is already taking to much money from those that have it and giving it away to those who don't have it.

Almost right: most of the legislation and tax reforms since the turn of the millennium in your country have seen funds flowing the other way.
Or did you think that there was a prosperous and expanding middle class in the 'States?

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 6:57:21 AM

servantforuse

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That's part of the problem. The middle class is also having their money taken from them and given away to others. This is hurting the middle class even more.

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 7:05:29 AM

mnottertail

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so, this should be cute. you are for tax relief for the middle class, and the others (those who have your money.......uhhhhhh that would be the rich) should have an increase.

are you turning socialist on us you union retiree?

lol.

gotta watch the squirm on this one............can we get it on youtube?

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 7:08:37 AM

Moonhead

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But the plutocracy HK has mentioned aren't paying a lot of taxes at the moment. All of that fuss about tax breaks for the top 5% with most of the money and hiking the tax rates on everybody else has, as you say, hit the middle class very hard indeed. It isn't just Bush either, as much the same thing went on under Reagonomics during the '80s. About the only people at this point who do still seem to believe that trickle down theory works are the people on top of the pile with all of the money, who appear convinced that staggered taxation is the work of Beelzebub.

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 7:09:34 AM

mnottertail

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cuz I jus caint hep mahsef.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_89U-N-5w0g

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 7:16:25 AM

Moonhead

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What the hell is this problem you Americans have with the notion that if you have a bigger income, you pay more tax, anyway? I'm pretty sure that isn't in the constitution or the bill of rights.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 7:18:45 AM

mnottertail

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meh, I am a socialist commie pinko sorta folk, not really the mainstream teabagger type.

If you got it, you give it, if you aint got it, you dont give it. Thats why the republicans invent loopholes.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 7:26:06 AM

servantforuse

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I want lower taxes for every one. We earned it. It's our money and the less that is confiscated the better off we will be.

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 7:26:45 AM

mnottertail

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confiscated? so you are not a constitutionalist, then.

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 7:30:44 AM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I want lower taxes for every one. We earned it. It's our money and the less that is confiscated the better off we will be.

So how are you going to pay for the things you use on a daily basis that the government pays for?

Wait, I know.

We'll all just contribute to a fund to maintain those things.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/22/2010 7:33:38 AM >

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RE: Born Rich - 9/22/2010 7:30:52 AM

Moonhead

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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

I want lower taxes for every one. We earned it. It's our money and the less that is confiscated the better off we will be.

You already have that: that's why your economy is in such a shitty state. Of course, the fact that the people who should be carrying the greatest burden of taxation are the best at finding loopholes to wriggle out of paying anything at all doesn't help much either.

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to servantforuse)

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