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All our futures ? - 9/26/2010 6:28:29 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Down the pub tonight,I was talking with a rather pissed chap tonight who was celebrating his 78 th birthday, not that he looked that old, but I asked him why it was he looked younger than his years. His answer was that he is technically a vagrant in that he lives in a motorhome and travels when the desire comes to him. Prior to that he had a yacht where he did the same until his years caught up on him regards handling a yacht. Anyway, he was between journeys and his key to life was something we both agreed upon. live for the present, not the future, for the future with any age may not come for no one knows what the future holds. He was an ex industrialist who became a teacher for the unteachable, he gave up with bricks and mortar homes, credit cards and all that shite thirty odd years back to seek the freedom of living for the day. I tend to agree with him for similar reasons, for age brings home the realities of life, what is important and what is not, for me the key to life is freedom.

But how many of us are free, can any of us just one day out of the blue just say stuff it and go off in search of freedom, my observations are we can't, for not many of us do not have that ability. Why, because it is simple, we live for the future.

At one time people lived day to day, they had to, as that was the order of life, but come civilisation and organisation and we have been trained by society to invest in our future with the belief that the future will come and we will reap the dividends after a life time of hard work and sometimes austerity, just what is the point in that, sacrificing younger, fitter life so we may die in comfort, if that futue indeed comes.

What is wrong with us, have we become so confident that the future is the key to happiness and if that is so, what about the present, is the drudgery worth more than what might not even come.

So, as to living for the present, who does, or is it we are all complacent and believing of what we are told by those who have a vested interest in making us believe there is a tommorrow ?

Is our lives now or for the future ?


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone
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RE: All our futures ? - 9/26/2010 6:47:19 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		Well mine is definitely living for the future because honestly...living the present just sucks in my life right now! Evertyhing I'm currently doing is to make something of my life in the near future.

and as for being completely free....no I'm not. I have responsibilities in my life where I cannot just pick up and go as much as I dream of being able to do that every single day. I envy the guy.

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: All our futures ? - 9/26/2010 8:53:48 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Obviously when he picked up and left, he abandoned his children if he had any. Not only am I unable to just go, I wouldn't want to. Because along with the freedom to do that is the fact that you will be without a support system. Walking out on those who love you teaches them you aren't worth investing in. That they can't trust you to be there for them, and therefore they shouldn't waste their time being there for you.

I'd rather have a strong fabric of loved ones in my life than loneliness.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: All our futures ? - 9/26/2010 9:02:23 PM   
BoredAsHell


Posts: 86
Joined: 4/21/2010
Status: offline 		it's a nice fantasy, to just pick up and go, but with the responsibilities i have, it'll never happen. i doubt i'll ever do it even after all the boys are grown because one of them will never leave home due to his disability. i think the only way i'd do it is if a certain person came back into my life, it was our dream at one time. we planned on taking my son with us and enjoying the sights. i wouldn't do it alone with my son, too many risks with us both having health problems. if something happened to me he couldn't function alone.

_____________________________

Yes, I used to be PanthersMom. I have returned, beware! :-)

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RE: All our futures ? - 9/27/2010 5:59:14 AM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline 		There's an old Porter Wagoner song, 'what is to be will be, what ain't to be might just happen'. The future is now..

(in reply to BoredAsHell)
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RE: All our futures ? - 9/27/2010 7:21:50 AM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		Isn't this the philosophy at the heart of Zen?

Projecting our desire into the future only causes us unhappiness in that we are constantly made aware of lacking 'the desired' (whatever it is) in the present. As a result, we are unable to enjoy the present because it is poisoned by the desire that we cannot yet fulfil. The way to break this cycle is to give up all desire for that which has not yet come to pass. Enjoy now, because now is truly all we have.

Or something.

(in reply to servantforuse)
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RE: All our futures ? - 9/27/2010 7:34:06 AM   
Twoshoes


Posts: 1218
Joined: 7/27/2010
Status: offline 		Well, I have enough freedom to be able to leave for Madagascar by December and no long-term responsibilities.

It's a double-edged sword for sure. I've been refused jobs for not being able to promise long-term commitments.

But it's all good, for now.

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: All our futures ? - 9/27/2010 7:39:27 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		Aneirin, as much as I agree with your point of view, I disagree with the way you are viewing it. Let me explain.

You are projecting the mindset of, living in the moment, materially. Making it all about the physical. Via location, money, possessions. That is overly simplistic and, for most people, unrealistic.

Most people, myself included, have responsibilities. Not just to ourselves but other people, beings, things, also. There is nothing more pure or honourable in walking away from those responsibilities. Quite the contrary actually.

I believe that it is when we make those things, locations, physical responsibilities more important than our inner selves and wellbeing. When we begin to identify who we are based upon the physical/material world around us, that is when we get lost. Especially when we get caught up in the fallacies that more money, better things, bigger, nicer, prettier, thinner, etc etc etc.........that we hope to have tomorrow, next week, next year, etc.......will make us happier better people.

The key, at least for me, is to find the joy in the moment. Whatever each of our moments actually is. Whether it is in an old RV, or suburbia USA.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: All our futures ? - 9/27/2010 7:57:44 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

Mentioned in the OP is drudgery and austerity for the future. Well the guy with the motor home could've blown every dime but he obviously didn't. It's up to each of us, but on a different scale. What's more, is it the materialistic or the spiritual ? Some people are happy living under a bridge, others wouldn't be satisfied with the Taj Mahal. Is pleasure derived from things or people, or perhaps the lack of people, which some see as lonliness while others enjoy as solitude ? I think many are in a gray area on that one, or perhaps bounce back and forth from time to time.

Fact is, on a material level, life sucks now and it is going to get alot worse. There are a few possibilities just how to handle it. The plastic, materialistic types who seem to be in abundance are going to have the hardest time. It is they who will not be able to afford new toys, nor even to keep their current toys in working condition. Those who enjoy people will probably gravitate toward one another and get by much more easily, at least emotionally and mentally.

In some ways I stand alone on a rock. I rarely appreciate gifts, especially store boughten junk. I do not give gifts, unless you count time. New garage roofs, electrical, plumbing, things like that. Helped Ma move, backed the truck up and cracked a brick pillar. The brickwork was a mess anyway, but I had it totally restored rather than just fixing the damage. A good meal, a car repair here and there. The last material gift anyone in my immediate family bought anyone was a rorttiller ! We don't go to gift stores, we go to hardware stores. Things of value, not trinkets and toys. And the real gift that reciprocates is the money left over. The electric company, taxman and so forth do not take gameboys, WII systems, camera phones, junk like that. If you want to waste money, waste it on yourself rather than something I'll return for a refund as soon as you go home. That even includes clothing, you buy what you want and I'll buy what I want.

Sans solitude, communication and understanding are what counts. If you want to talk football, I would rather be alone. I do all I can to rid my space of drama and bullshit. No more of that. If I want to think about something it better be worth while, or I would rather sleep. Maybe that's why I drank for 35 years. Liquid ignorance of bullshit that seems to be so important to those with not much of import on their minds. "Hey, I just downloaded....", go away. I couldn't care less. All of it, I don't care.

I would rather seek to better myself and gain more understanding of how the world works. I am not completely in the dark, and I can say one thing for sure. If you have the capacity to think, each answer begets multiple questions.

So much for that.

T

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: All our futures ? - 9/27/2010 7:59:23 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

for me the key to life is freedom.



You...I..everyone else on this board are not as free as birds.

You have agreed to this state of affairs through the tacit consent you have given to contract theory...individuals and the state...through taking the benefits that the state provides...e.g. use of roads....public libraries....public parks...public education system etc....if you're going to accept the benefits then be prepared to accept the costs (anything less is hypocrisy and self-deception of the highest order)....your limited freedom being one of them....you can't have your cake and eat it....although there are degrees of state intervention in your life....granted.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

But how many of us are free, can any of us just one day out of the blue just say stuff it and go off in search of freedom, my observations are we can't, for not many of us do not have that ability. Why, because it is simple, we live for the future.



Many of the OPs on this board seem to lurch between extremes with no room for middle ground. What's the matter with you people?!

If you want absolute freedom....then do what they do in parts of the US where they build a hut in the snow and a fence round it and put guns on the top to keep everyone else out.....or go and live like Crusoe on an island.....because in every democratic country in the world there is no such thing as absolute freedom....and anyone spending 2 minutes reading a gentle paced introductory guide to political philosophy would grasp this.....

Living in the past or future? Why can't you do both? Why can't you be happy with what you have and where you're at at the moment while working for improvements in your life? It's called being at peace with yourself and the world while having a plan to make sure your needs are met in the future.....to me...that's a prerequisite of being a human being....if you can't juggle these two balls then it's time to go right back to basics and understand what is important in your life...do you care about your future? do you care about peace of mind in the present?

Where I would perhaps give your OP some credit is that Materialism perhaps lends itself to a forward looking approach....owning and consuming things becomes a purpose in life and a never ending quest.....but that's easy enough to resolve.....just don't place much emphasis on owning and consuming things....simple enough....invest your time in reading...spirituality....etc whatever it is that means you have your intellectual needs met...you don't have to opt of society for that or think the whole world is fucked...you simply have to use your head and fit your needs into the system....

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: All our futures ? - 9/27/2010 8:11:50 AM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

Isn't this the philosophy at the heart of Zen?

Projecting our desire into the future only causes us unhappiness in that we are constantly made aware of lacking 'the desired' (whatever it is) in the present. As a result, we are unable to enjoy the present because it is poisoned by the desire that we cannot yet fulfil. The way to break this cycle is to give up all desire for that which has not yet come to pass. Enjoy now, because now is truly all we have.

Or something.



I actually like this quote. However, you do need to have aspirations and if things are not going well in your life, you need to take steps to improve them. So you cannot confuse trying to better a life situation with not enjoying your current state because you do not yet have what you desire.

Money makes your life more free and unfortunately, that is what the daily grind is about, trying to make money not just to survive, but to have an easier life.

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: All our futures ? - 9/27/2010 3:13:31 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Re what LaT said, and I agree totally. Sin is when you treat people as things and things as people. All the things you talk about are how you should feel about the people you love. When you put things above people, you shame yourself.

Just like no one ever lies on a deathbed wishing they had spent more time at the office, they also don't lie there wishing they had alienated even more people. It is in how we treat others that we become our true selves.


_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 12
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