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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/24/2006 8:48:20 PM   
OTKkindaGirl


Posts: 447
Joined: 12/26/2005
From: NW Arkansas
Status: offline 		Celeste..... you description is right on with another one of my states..  you put it so much better than i ever possibly could have.

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/24/2006 9:31:08 PM   
ladychatterley


Posts: 132
Joined: 3/10/2006
Status: offline 		I'm weird, but for me (and I have never been pushed that far) it is very similar to meditation.  When you meditate, and you know you are going to be there for 4 hours (the most I've ever done) with a 5 minute walking meditation break every half hour, for the first 10 minutes I'm fine "Oh look at me, I'm so enlightened, I'm really in the present moment."  And then "Fuck, saying I'm in the present moment isn't being in the present moment" and that intellectual analysis lasts another 20 minutes and then the first break is all wasted about not 'doing' it right.  The next half hour I mostly spend saying "I can't do this" "How much longer?" "This is interminable"  "I'm leaving."  But, for just a few moments I get little flashes where I am in the present moment.  I don't realize it at that moment--they're just flashes.  But I get there by focusing on my breath, not the intellectualized process of it, but the visceral feeling of it in my body.  And it gets a little easier.

Now, I've not been pushed to safeword (at least here, meditation is another story).  I've stayed safely in the liminality of pain/pleasure without going too far from that nebulous place where you aren't sure, but I've been pushed to "I don't know if I can do this" and, for me, it is a much easier and quicker way to get to the same place than meditation--you have to be in the present moment because the endorphins and sensations just shut down the intellect quickly and completely, and you get those little glimpses of annihilation, which is really just another word for enlightenment.

But, on a tangent, can I just say that I HATE being expected to count!  I mean, if the whole point is to surrender to the experience (which is the whole point for me) why should I count, which is specifically about getting the whole thing over with! 

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/24/2006 9:39:33 PM   
KittenWithaTwist


Posts: 490
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		I *really* wish people wouldn't focus so much on subspace. I really, really do. Some people seem to push it so hard, as the end-all, be-all of the submissive experience, and that makes it really tough on those of us who won't experience it, due to whatever reason, be it physical, emotional, spiritual, mental. For ages, I thought I was "doing it wrong" because I didn't acheive the coveted "subspace" mentality.

When I feel pain, I want to feel pain. I'm a masochist. I love the pain. I don't want to "breathe through it" as your partner says. What's the fun in that for a maso?

My partner always told me that it isn't about what you experience or what level you reach, it's about enjoying yourself along the way. If you're having fun fighting, struggling, and really feeling the pain, then go with it. "Subspace" isn't the spiriitual plane (IMO) that people who do experience it make it out to be. It's just an endorphin rush. And we all experience those endorphins differently. Maybe you don't zone out. Maybe, just maybe, like me, you orgasm.

My advice? If you do enjoy what you're doing on its own, tell him not to worry about not subspacing. It isn't that important. Don't let anyone tell you it's amazing and hell-raising. For all you know...for you...it aint.

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/24/2006 9:47:03 PM   
slaverosebeauty


Posts: 1941
Joined: 12/12/2004
From: Cali
Status: offline 		It could be the activity. I know that personally, some activites send me into subspace faster than others, and some not at all. Try different activites and variations of regular activites, you could need a 'change' to back back to that 'happy place.'

Lamaze did NOT work during childbirth, drugs did, for me anyways. I do suggestion though that worked.

Try it when you alone time, lay on your back, and starting with your left foot, tense it up and hold for a slow count of 5, then relax it. Put on your concentration and energy on the area you are tensing up. Do the same with your right foot, then both feet; do that to the different muscles in your body all the way up to your head; one side then other, then both sides; when you get to tensing up your face muscles, make funny faces. You will be very relaxed aftrewards. I was able to work up to a slow count of 30 at one point.

Thats a nice way to relax your whole body, especially before bed. If you do it before a scene, it may help you get into subspace a lot easier becuase your mind and body will be relaxed.

Hope that helps.

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/24/2006 9:49:07 PM   
LadyKim


Posts: 191
Joined: 11/11/2004
Status: offline 		In order to find your way into subspace, it really requires a number of factors.  You did touch on the most important which is being able to relax.  When you 'fight' the pain, you are really struggling to control your reactions which will prevent you from releasing yourself to the sensations that allow you to soar.

Another HUGE factor is the connection that exists between the Dominant and the sub.  It takes an energy flow back and forth to really build that chemistry that allows you to fly. 

When I play with body builder types or men who are a good bit larger than me, I don't let them go into subspace while I have them on a device or we are out in public.  If I do not feel I can manuever them around, I will keep them right on that edge throughout the play ..... just keeping it out of there reach, and wait until I have them in a position I know they can stay in for a while to enjoy their trip and not get hurt.  (Really bad idea to have someone you can't move on a cross and have him fall on you when you take him down cause he's too out there!)

When I play with women or in private with a boy, I will take the time before I ever pick up a toy to form that connection with them and get them to focus on their breathing to relax.  Something to try..............  Sit on the floor with your back tall.... close your eyes........ and start to take deep breathes through your nose...... use your fingers to draw on your skin the path you feel the air taking as it goes into your nose, through your sinuses (under your eyes), down your throat, to your chest, and then back out.  Make your breathing slow...... and deep.... and continue to draw the path until you can follow the breathes easily without the added stimulation. Continue breathing deeply ........ clearing your mind of everything but the breathes.   This will help you to be able to relax your body.

Remember this when you feel something bitey or something that you don't think you can handle.  Force your mind off the part of the body that just received the pain, and send it to your breathing.  Remember that path......... and follow it in your mind to help your body absorb the pain and translate it. 

If you aren't feeling the 'connection' with your dominant, then communicate that to him or her.  They may not realize that they aren't making enough contact (with something other than a toy) to help you melt into the scene with  them.  

I know I will whisper in the subs ear, bite their shoulder, neck, chest, rub my hands over there body with my mouth close to theirs or to their throat or ear.  Keeping that connection flowing will help you achieve subspace........ and the Dom reach Domspace.  (Yes, there is an endorphine rush for Doms too!)

Good luck.
MzKim

< Message edited by LadyKim -- 4/24/2006 9:52:58 PM >

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/25/2006 1:18:22 AM   
colonicegirl17


Posts: 14
Joined: 1/12/2005
Status: offline 		my answer from my own experience is that you reach subspace once you fully give up control and are comfertable with your place and live to please your Master/Mistress

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/25/2006 5:55:35 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: colonicegirl17
my answer from my own experience is that you reach subspace once you fully give up control and are comfertable with your place and live to please your Master/Mistress

Which is true for some people and not true at all for others.  That's something like saying that you orgasm once you fully give up control and are comfortable.

We work in very different ways.  Having a particular experience is not necessarily a signal of one's relationship.

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/25/2006 1:05:17 PM   
babysburnin


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline 		my Dom tells me he can see me go into sub space almost immediately at times - although i'm not aware of it always and it is not something i can personally will myself to go into.  i have noticed that when i am experiencing pain that has deep emotional connection (like being punished for something i did that hurt my Dom's feelings) i find i do not go into sub space.  Maybe because i want to feel the pain, feel i deserve it?

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/26/2006 10:27:39 PM   
babysburnin


Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
Status: offline 		Since reading the responses to the following post, I have been pondering a question, one that I am searching to figure out myself.  The general consensus was that most of us "do not like pain - it hurts".  So why do we subject ourselves to it?  What do we get from it?  There is a part of me that likes that attention - but I'm having difficulty "putting my finger on" just exactly why. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Hello,

i have been reading the past posts on subspace in search of an answer about if i am keeping myself out of subspace by not relaxing and fighting the pain, but i have not found anything that specifically answers the question that i have. i know the each submissive is different, and each person feels sub-space differently. my question stems from a recent playing experience where the Dom made a comment about my fighting the endorphins by not relaxing and not focusing on breathing out the pain and i am wondering if that is what i am doing. If by relaxing between painful stimuli (i always feel them as pain) and not staying tense would have a different result and allow me to actually go into sub-space. (hope all that makes sense) So i was wondering if someone else had experienced the same thing and if relaxing and the lamaze type breathing helped. Thank you.



_____________________________

-Babysburnin

"Love is, above all else, the gift of oneself."
- Jean Anouilh

"The highest proof of virtue is to possess boundless power without abusing it."
- Lord Macaulay

(in reply to heartfeltsub)
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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/26/2006 10:41:49 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		He may be administering the stimuli too abruptly. I always used to start up soft with new girls. Then gradually work it up.

If you just start pinching hard and whaling away on someone-of course she is going to tense up. And if you keep it up-either invoke a safe word-or worse,she may withold it.

And go into shock. I tried bottoming at the very start,thinking erroueuosly that I was a switch.  But I am not wired for it-by the time endrophins kick in-I'm one of two things. Going into shock,and passing out. Or going and adrenalin berserk and trying to tear myself  loose, so I can rip apart the Top.

Neither is very good for a scene, so Top is my default mode.

So try something else,or try a Top who will.


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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/26/2006 10:43:16 PM   
Reasonable


Posts: 459
Joined: 4/20/2006
Status: offline 		I think I know the answer babies. Pride.

To endure, to suffer, to please.
To overcome.

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/26/2006 10:50:25 PM   
lilriv


Posts: 12
Joined: 4/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

when suddenly my body quits flinching, my breathing does slow down, i can even feel my heart slow down, almost as if i am one with the whip, paddle, crop, or whatever is causing it


I've had that happen once, and it scared the crap out of me. I enjoy light to medium pain, but one night my master started using a crop he'd made on me. At first it felt nice, as usual. I love that tingling feeling once the pain is gone and he lightly strokes my skin. But that time he kept on going, picking up both frequency and intensity. I'd say within a few minutes I was completely detached . . . like your experience, my breathing slowed down, my heart reached a normal pace, and my mind felt completely calm. But suddenly I started panicking. I KNEW there was pain, but is scared the crap out of me that I couldn't feel it.

My master is a very kind and attentive man, but I had been in an emotionally abusive relationship before for two years where I guess I often withdrew into what I guess you could call a mental subspace . . . I'd stop hearing what she said, the cruel words, and I'd just reach this total state of oblivion, where nothing she said hurt . . . I'd feel neither pleasure <i>nor</i> pain.

I think the similar experience of physical subspace might have been too much to handle, but I'm still not sure . . . my master and I haven't tried it since . . . I'm absolutely terrified of NOT feeling. I almost think I'd rather feel every slap and whiplash than to ever experience subspace again. It's not an experience I'm sure I can learn to enjoy as long as I still carry the emotional pain from my previous relationship with me. And as most people know . . . emotional scars are much more difficult to overcome than physical ones.

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/27/2006 5:28:36 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Yes, I almost always experience things in various shades of purple.

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/27/2006 5:54:22 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thank you for your words. He does start slow and i also play with other Tops at local dungeons and such and so far this particular Dom is the only one who actually pushes me at all. i am just finding that i need the touch of a hand when i am really tensing and then i can calm myself and breathe.

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/27/2006 12:20:58 PM   
cutelinygurl84


Posts: 84
Joined: 3/29/2006
Status: offline 		I am beginning to think there is something wrong with me or my Dom b/c I only reached subspace once.  Is that bad?  How do I get myself to reach it more often?  My friends tell me its a great feeling and I need to experience it more but I just dont know how.  Maybe I just cant reach it or maybe my Dom does not touch all the right spots that would send me into subspace.  If anyone has any advice on this topic for me please let me know it would be greatly appreciated.

Cutelinygurl84

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RE: What keeps someone out of sub-space? - 4/27/2006 12:24:54 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cutelinygurl84

I am beginning to think there is something wrong with me or my Dom b/c I only reached subspace once.  Is that bad?  How do I get myself to reach it more often?  My friends tell me its a great feeling and I need to experience it more but I just dont know how.  Maybe I just cant reach it or maybe my Dom does not touch all the right spots that would send me into subspace.  If anyone has any advice on this topic for me please let me know it would be greatly appreciated.

Cutelinygurl84

This entire thread is about those specific questions.  Read through it all and then see if you can relate to anything or have any other specific questions based on that.

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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