Who's really in control? (Full Version)

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sezM846 -> Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 7:43:15 AM)

Just to stir things up a bit, and a follow on from the equality post..... in a D/s relationship... who is really in control?  i know that most of Y/you will look at this and think i am mad... it's obviously the Dom..... but think about it for a sec.  The Dom is only in control of the slave or sub because they have allowed Him/Her to be.  in my relationship with Master.. He is 100% in control and i love HIm for that... but it is because i submitted to HIm in the first place and allowed Him to take control..... so again i ask the question   Who is in control ?  Hope this doesn't offend A/anyone... and if it does i apologise in advance... offence is not what i intended.
 
sez xxxxxxxxxxxx
 



juliaoceania -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 7:48:04 AM)

My ex-Dom (is that how you put it? ...lol) used to debate this with me all the time when we first started up together. He wasn't sure and neither was I to be honest with you... Finally we just stopped talking about it because it wasn't important to us anymore.. we liked what we did, end of story



ClassAct2006 -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 7:49:08 AM)

In the US/UK we all have the right to leave a relationship so if someone dominant is sufficiently unpleasant they are not like to keep that relationship going. I think there is therefore control on both sides,  but with more control from the dominant person on a day to day basis or so has been my experience.



mixielicous -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 7:49:29 AM)

He is in control, yes b/c i gave it to Him.

But like a gift, it is no longer mine, all His. He sets any limit, has all control. When i got collared i surrendered my safeword, because i trust Him to do nothing to mentally injure me, or physically incompacitate me.

So, at one point, it was mine, over myself, but i gave it up. i no longer have control, and prefer it that way.

The sub is only in control until she finds a Dom to give herself to.

[not applicable in all cases of course there are many D/s M/s dynamics]



ownedgirlie -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 7:49:38 AM)

Master was in control from the moment he said hello.  I just didn't realize it at first.  He drew me to him, and as much as I tried to fight myself, I had no choice but to yield to him. 

As for allowing him to be in control, that was not the case with us.  I ultimately begged him to take full control, and he would not accept me as his slave until he knew I was ready to be.

Obviously, others will have different experiences.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 7:53:52 AM)

It's not about control, it's about authority.

Very few masters have the time, resources, or desire to be in direct control of everything all the time.  Things like going to the bathroom, getting dressed, feeding, and other things are almost always left to the slave's direct control.

As well, it's often the slaves purpose to be useful and give the master MORE time and energy- this means that they must be in direct control of many things.  If the master orders the slave to make dinner, it's doubtful that the master will want to be in control to the point of being the one to go buy the food, set the food out on the counter, and then have the slave literally just make it.

A slave can be in control of many things, from driving, to shopping, to taking care of the children and anything else a normal person is in control of.

The difference is that the slave operates constantly under the authority and approval of the owner. 

As far as "veto power" being some sort of mark of control- everyone in a relationship has that.  Having a veto does not mean you have control over anyone.



MstrFury -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 7:53:53 AM)

I could say...I'm a Control Freak Power Junkie...and that would answer a lot of questions...but the reality of life is....I control the situations I can...and with those I can't...I guide..steer...direct...and basicly tend to HOPE things go as I intend them to...

and yes...I was a little flippent in this response...why start the day having to be so serious...I'll leave that to the afternoon...

and again...I pull my cape around me...and slip back into the shadows and lurk...



Arpig -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 7:56:33 AM)

Who's in control?
Who cares really...just have fun.



thetammyjo -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 8:02:08 AM)

Honestly I think all of us are in far less control than we'd like to believe.

I can take steps to prevent illness but nothing I do short of living in a bubble will keep all illnesses at bay; if I can't do that for myself I certainly can't do it for my slave.

I can live my life as I see fit until the cops come or a neighbor raises hell or gasoline prices go up, etc, then I'll have to deal with it.

You are right, sezM846, that in a consensual relationship we only get as much authority or power as the other person hands over.

I'd add that even in non-consensual relationships there is no such thing as 100% control simply because as mere humans we aren't capable of having that over ourselves let alone another person. I've seen too many primary documents from historical slavery situations to know that even in those societies and times the so-called power, authority and control of owners was limited in a variety of ways.

On the other hand if someone wishes to say that they as the dom has 100% control or that they as the sub hands over 100% control, they are probably correct by the differences and the circumstances they are in. As long as they don't claim it as a universal or the "only way" to do/see things, I say let them define themselves and their relationships.

This is a good question for me to think about because Fox and I have another of these classroom college level panels to do tomorrow. I'm sure similar questions will arise and if we are wise (I certainly hope we are) we will only talk about ourselves and our own relationship.



cillydom -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 8:05:07 AM)

On who’s in control, well it depends on the current emotional makeup of the subbie.

I’ll repost what I said in another thread to explain.

And to elaborate on my “Perhaps enslavement happens when the relationship becomes more important to you than what you may have to do to keep it” this allows the same woman with the same level of need to be a slave to one and not another depending on what may be demanded of her. Say for instance one dom would want her to do something that may be detrimental to her children and she rightly refuses, then under this circumstance she wouldn’t be considered a slave to him. On the other hand with another dom that would not push her that far then she could be considered a slave, as she would be willing to do anything he wanted to keep the relationship, so enslavement is relative to the couple involved and their wants and needs.




Proprietrix -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 8:05:14 AM)

I see a submissive being in control of a D/s relationship
as clearly I see a mail clerk being in control of the CEO.

Take that how you will.



meatcleaver -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 8:06:08 AM)

My own view is that in what is commonly considered a D/s relationship (I know someone will ask me to define 'commonly considered' but no one is going to read a thesis) I think the sub is ultimately in charge. She ultimately sets the boundaries and the sub has a powerful position in the market place because there is a shortage of female subs or so I'm led to believe, she can just up and leave. I guess the Dom can too but a take it or leave it attitude often leaves a Dom without a sub.

In just a sexual D/s relationship the female sub has even more power and the Dom is there to service the sub. If he doesn't play ball and she isn't satisfied she'll look elsewhere. Again the Dom can do the same but he is part of a glut in the market.

OK I accept this is simplistic and there are many other ingredients but that is how I see the bare bones.

I have a take it or leave it attitude so many times I am without a sub but personally I don't see that as a problem. If I'm not willing to pay the market rate, to continue the metaphor and I am left with nothing so be it.



babyblues -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 8:41:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

.....I think the sub is ultimately in charge. She ultimately sets the boundaries and the sub has a powerful position in the market place because there is a shortage of female subs or so I'm led to believe, she can just up and leave. I guess the Dom can too but a take it or leave it attitude often leaves a Dom without a sub. 



i have to say, that is one of the most insulting things i have ever read...do you honestly think subs are in control of Doms because they have plenty of other choices in men? that has got to be the most jaded and ridiculous opinion i have ever seen....
 
you obviously know nothing about commitment, love, honor OR submission



meatcleaver -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 8:44:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: babyblues

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

.....I think the sub is ultimately in charge. She ultimately sets the boundaries and the sub has a powerful position in the market place because there is a shortage of female subs or so I'm led to believe, she can just up and leave. I guess the Dom can too but a take it or leave it attitude often leaves a Dom without a sub. 



i have to say, that is one of the most insulting things i have ever read...do you honestly think subs are in control of Doms because they have plenty of other choices in men? that has got to be the most jaded and ridiculous opinion i have ever seen....
 
you obviously know nothing about commitment, love, honor OR submission


I think personal attraction comes into it too but basically in the spirit of evolutionary theory,YES!



Lashra -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 8:51:18 AM)

The sub is in control as far as setting up limits, the Dom is expected to act within those limits. If the sub wishes to expand their horizons then the Dom can try some things to see how things go, but ultimately the sub has the final say. Because after all these are adult humans who can walk out at anytime they feel its necessary.

~Lashra



BitaTruble -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 8:59:51 AM)

quote:

The Dom is only in control of the slave or sub because they have allowed Him/Her to be. ... Who is in control ? 


::snipped to the relevant parts::


For me, I didn't 'allow' him control. He took it and whether he maintains it directly or indirectly, he has it. LA made a comment about direct control.. and I agree that there are very few who would exert direct control 100% of the time, but I know two Masters who do, in fact, exhibit that level of control. But indirect control is no less control because at any time Himself may prevent me by command or force to stop any of those activities which are generally relegated to indirect control. He may turn to me and tell me that I'm not allowed use of the toilet. He knows the consequences of that order.. he's going to have a smelly, wet slave on his hands, but he maintains the control. He doesn't always exercise that control which allows for a level of autonomy for a period of time, but he reserves the right to exercise it at as his own will dictates. I may very well be at the store and he will call me with a command to leave the grocery's where they are and get my ass back home. Am I in control because I happen to be away in that moment? No, it's just the control has gone from direct and physical to indirect.

To answer the question of who is in control? He is, always.

Celeste

edited for typos ... sheesh



understud -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 9:06:34 AM)

Who is in control; does it matter, it's a question of what you agree to...At some point, some where, some time... agreement is reached. Labels, names, ego's, tat's, behavior etc. put all that aside. the relationship was formed by mutual consent for whatever reason. And may be broken by either for whatever reason. Or even no reason,  Who is in control,...hummm... if i have agreed to a relationship and find what i sought i believe i might think i am in control for i have meet my needs ...this isn't fair, i have to think... As for the Dominate i really can't say, my mind doesn't work like that...i'm a sub...duha...This is about  codependency each taking from and supporting the other no matter what they might call the other. A fulfilling of needs. So who then is in total control if not both and neither.  such is life,
i now respectfully await my public flogging
 
ps, last time i checked all this was consensual; unless they repealed several amendments overnight
 
woops, forgot my place again sorry, let the beating begin
respectfully understud



catize -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 9:23:57 AM)

A dominant doesn't have to use a safe word to stop a scene, if he/she decides it's over, then it's done.  If the dominant isn't satisfied with the level of submission, he/she has the option to call it quits as well.
Both dominant and submissive accept the responsibilities of the position they hold.  If you want respect and service from a submissive, then it is your obligation to live up to the title of dominant.



truesub4u -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 9:26:06 AM)

In short... I have to agree with meatcleaver there. I'm not owned... I talk to a few doms here and there... not a single one of them is actually in control of me. I control the whole thing... when asked to meet... it is I who says yes or no. ....... When one asks me to be on line at a certain time.. I tell them I'll try... but I can't always due to my reality... I control my reality.... there for I control if i'm going to be here.... sometimes (cases of power outage.... ER trips with kids... ect.... ) The Dom does not control.... untill I give control. And when it comes to playtime.... if playtime isn't to my liking... i'm the one who control if it will continue.... or be a next time. More in detail if not to my liking.....if I state a limit... and I feel he's trying to push.. or ignore..... becaues once again.. i'm in control... when I state my limits... do and don't. He either respects them.... or no playtime... that means i'm in control. When I agree to meet... if he tries to get me to dress a certain way.. I say yes or no. If he says YES...  I say have a nice day.... hope all you seek you find ELSWHERE.... It is my choice during that first meet..... if their will be playtime (should he state he will be expecting it).... I can do or not...

But then again... that is all based on first meets of a D/s for me... not everyone. My thoughts in D/s versus M/s differ from others. I believe it's always D/s before a relationship is agreed upon and the M/s relationship begins to live. But then again... this is only my look upon it... not everyone elses.

I believe in a M/s realtionship.... one does not lose... but forfeits control. Having lived in 2 different M/s households before... I still believe there is a lot more a sub/slave is in control of. When a Dom/Master is in the mood to play king of the castle... he throw out his instructions.... I want this for dinner.... most other times... I fix whatever for dinner... or at least know what he likes or not likes... hell my folks are not M/s and this still goes on..LOL..... He might be feeling frisky... and want to start the evening off right when returning from where ever.... so he may tell you what to be wearing... other than that... I wear what I want.. but still think if he'll like what i'm wearing... It's not giving up control to know what he likes and want to do all the time... but he's not always around to control everything either......It falls back to the you have to have enough control... to think.. to know... if something is going to work or not...

This is one of those debates that can go so many other directions... everyones going to have their own ideas... over what is control.... who has it... who is allowed to use it... who will use it...there is no right answer.... no wrong answer.... it's all in who is involved.... and who AGREES... to the control of what...     



BitaTruble -> RE: Who's really in control? (4/24/2006 9:32:26 AM)

quote:

ps, last time i checked all this was consensual; unless they repealed several amendments overnight



No public flogging from me, just a simple truth on my own personal relationship. A quote from the equality thread.

"What the law grants me is less powerful than Himself and holds no validity to the station of my life." 

The law has presented me with a gift of choice and several valuable rights. I returned them to Best Buy and got a Playstation 2 instead. ;)

Celeste 



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