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Health care lesson - 9/27/2010 9:43:30 PM   
tazzygirl


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As most who post here know health care is an issue i follow carefully.

A few threads are currently floating around. Ive asked a few questions, with, of course, no reply. What i have noticed is a few misconceptions.

The questions are as follows...

What constitutes preventative health care?

Do you consider health an individual problem or a community problem, or both?

Im curious as to the answers to these questions.

_____________________________

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RE: Health care lesson - 9/27/2010 9:53:26 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

As most who post here know health care is an issue i follow carefully.

A few threads are currently floating around. Ive asked a few questions, with, of course, no reply. What i have noticed is a few misconceptions.

The questions are as follows...

What constitutes preventative health care?
Um, stuff that prevents health problems? I think I need to phone a friend on this one.

Do you consider health an individual problem or a community problem, or both?
I am my brother's keeper.
(OK, I didn't really make that up- I copied that from the Communist Manifesto or something)


Im curious as to the answers to these questions.
You and me both, sister.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Health care lesson - 9/27/2010 10:08:58 PM   
TheHeretic


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Let me get a rain check, Tazzy, cuz I'm just about to go lay naked under the airflow from the cooler. Your questions deserve better reflection than they'll get when I'm hot, tired, and drifting towards grumpy.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Health care lesson - 9/27/2010 10:10:34 PM   
tazzygirl


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Rain check granted quickly! Nothing worse than a hot, sweaty man who is cranky.... ummm... did i just say that?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Health care lesson - 9/27/2010 10:13:54 PM   
TheHeretic


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_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Health care lesson - 9/27/2010 10:46:18 PM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
The questions are as follows...

What constitutes preventative health care? [A]

Do you consider health an individual problem or a community problem, or both? [B]


[A] Preventative Health Care, is taking proper steps in one's health, to mitigate some of the health problems, the human body can experience. It does not give anyone a 100% chance of living to old age, but does help. Some examples of preventative health care:

a) brushing, flossing, and mouth wash of dental and mouth area.
b) proper hygeine of the body (including one's head on their shoulders)
c) exercising according to a physican's plan
d) proper diet
e) yearly check ups with one's doctor
f) 8-9 hours of restful sleep/night
g) Living in a clean living space
h) being part of one's community, usually by volunteering
i) The sexes get screened for a host of typical problems (see a doctor for more info)
j) Get a pet, like a dog or cat
k) take up a new hobby

Some of these will not be covered under the Affordable Care Act 2010, for obvious reasons. Some of these things effect one's physical self, while others, their mental/emotional self. Some can effect both!

[B] It can be both, depending on the issues. Somethings will be at an individual level, and others, would effect the community around the individual. Its the same question as 'is drug abuse an individual or community problem'? It only takes one suicide, to make a community mourn the loss.

In terms of economic power, the community easily has both 1) More buying power vs the individual and 2) Better ability to dictate what services are offered or not. With private companies, the individual is at the mercy of the company interests. In a goverment setting, one can complain to their senator/representative for proper action. It may not be much, but its a helluva alot farther then trying to get pass a veteran corporate secratary that's heard 'every excuse and play' in the book.

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RE: Health care lesson - 9/28/2010 5:01:43 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

What constitutes preventative health care?

Do you consider health an individual problem or a community problem, or both?


Preventative health care is when you go to the doctor before you get sick for checkups, in order to catch things before they get out of hand. It is also getting vaccines to prevent catching illnesses. It can also include talking to your doctor about a diet if you are overweight or exercising more.

I think health care or the lack of it affect everyone, so I would go with both on that question.


_____________________________

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RE: Health care lesson - 9/28/2010 5:31:58 AM   
BeingChewsie


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It depends on whether you mean primary, secondary or tertiary prevention. I'm going to guess you mean primary preventative care. Those are measures provided to prevent the onset of a targeted condition. An example would be routine vaccinations for children or using ASA to prevent a first heart attack. You may also be talking about secondary preventative measures like pap smears and blood pressure screening which are looking for disease in people that it isn't clinically apparent.

I consider health issues to be both an individual problem and a community problem. We want to be preventing disease/illness before it happens not just catching it and treating which is mostly what we do now through secondary and tertiary prevention. We need more primary preventative measures, though it is important to note that studies go both ways on whether it actually works. Given the amount of information and education available about diet and exercise, Americans should be getting thinner. The line at Five Guys shouldn't be wrapping around the building for burgers and fries, yet we see just the opposite occurring.

I think until we get to the heart of those issues(why don't people take care of themselves even when they know what to do), primary prevention will have minimal impact. We will still just be catching and treating, catching and treating, same as we do now. I'm not downplaying the importance of preventative measures but putting educational plans into place is not enough if you don't understand the root cause of the problem.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

As most who post here know health care is an issue i follow carefully.

A few threads are currently floating around. Ive asked a few questions, with, of course, no reply. What i have noticed is a few misconceptions.

The questions are as follows...

What constitutes preventative health care?

Do you consider health an individual problem or a community problem, or both?

Im curious as to the answers to these questions.


< Message edited by BeingChewsie -- 9/28/2010 5:33:40 AM >


_____________________________

"In fact, it is my contention that most women are accepting of way less than optimal circumstance constantly, and are lucky to be 'snagged' by the right man, if ever. But it is more by happy accident than by their design. "
~Ron and Hup

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RE: Health care lesson - 9/28/2010 5:34:28 AM   
RealSub58


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I will give only myself and my situation as examples.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
What constitutes preventative health care?
  I have had a heart murmur since my early 20's and a potentially bad heart rythm since my 30's.  I have had chest pain at which time all the usual heart check up stuff was done, including a contrast view of my heart via MRI.  Ok since all that testing was done, I have no insurance, except for about 2 yrs.

Preventive health would have been to follow the murmur and rythm to see that it went no farther.  Well no insurance meant meant nothing was done to see if both had advanced.  If I had had preventive heart (cardiac failure) care........
I would NOT have passed out dragonboat racing.  I was dragged to the hospital where my EKG was "bad" and hence all the same tests repeated, except the stress EKG.  I have left ventricular cardiomyopathy (the heart disease that kills young athletes while they are playing hard).  Well damage done, 35% ejection fraction.

PREVENTATIVELY one cardiac MD wanted to do an invasive search for any heart blokages, instead he opted for the  64 slice CT scan of my heart (it was cheaper) and found 30% blockage in one artery.   

With insurance, all the tests were done again and I also have cholesterol and hyperlipidemia in addition.

Since preventative care was done, they now keep track of my ejection fraction and it has improved with meds and my lipids soared down with alternative therapy.

Once again I have no insurance and the billing department refuses to allow me to have hylagon injections to PREVENT a knee replacement. 

A much cheaper way to go but no THE COMPANY wants to make money and they make no money if I pay $100.00 for each injection.

Do you consider health an individual problem or a community problem, or both?
 
It is a community problem.  The local MEDICAL FACILITIES CONTROL who gets treated and who does not depending on the pocket book of the patient.  

Ones on T-19 get treated for a nick on their finger while they refuse me to have a mammogram.  And my sister is a breast cancer survivor.  I am not on T-19 and without insurance.  Lost in the bottomless pit with thousands of others in my position. 



That is only my minimal take on the issue.

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RE: Health care lesson - 9/28/2010 8:16:47 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Let me get a rain check, Tazzy, cuz I'm just about to go lay naked under the airflow from the cooler.


Wayyyyyyy too much information!

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RE: Health care lesson - 9/28/2010 9:48:14 PM   
TheHeretic


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You know, RML, if you have these urges and desires still plaguing you this late in life, you really ought to step up and act on them. I'm not going to be able to help you out with that part, but I'll take your inability to get the image out of your mind as a compliment.


Anyway, back to the actual topic, and the interesting questions.


quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

What constitutes preventative health care?

Do you consider health an individual problem or a community problem, or both?




That's going to be a "both" from me, Tazzy, and it goes to preventative care as well. Community preventative health care starts with things like a source of clean water, and somewhere for the poo to go, and not letting that be the same place. Got a full scale urban environment? The trash needs to go away on a very reliable schedule. Got restaurants? Better get a health code, and some inspectors to go with it. Vaccinations are in the grey area (and not an invitation to hijack, I hope), but they are in the public interest. When it comes to stopping the spread of infectious disease, and disease vectors, I'm not above a little individual coercion for the greater good.

For the individual adult, who presumably survived childhood because of the innoculations he had to have, preventative health care should be about information and choices. There is no perfect answer, because every one us is going to die anyway. A critical bit of that information is going to be family history. If someone knows, just for example, that the previous generations of his/her family either died quickly of massive heart attacks, horribly from organ cancers, or after years of shitting the bed dementia, that person's informed decision about bacon double cheeseburgers might not be the same as everyone else.

This ties in to one of my own hesitations about a nationalized healthcare system, and what it could become. It's somewhere between cynicism and slight paranoia. Call it the 1984 factor. (I was way too young when I read that book.) The idea that the most common, personal, day to day and lifestyle choices of individuals become part of the government's cost/benefit analysis isn't one that sits easy with me. I'm not 100% ok with seat belt laws, Tazzy, increased gov't interest in whether people eat their vegetables probably isn't going to go well with me either.

I see an important part of this debate as social cost vs. social cost.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Health care lesson - 9/28/2010 10:18:48 PM   
tazzygirl


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Its not surprising how many see preventative care as a way to be absent of disease. While that is definitely part of it, its not the whole story. Someone (who i wont name since he didnt have the guts to post on this thread) also mentions from time to time that health care is an individual mandate. Again, while that is partly true, its only part. If it were completely true, we wouldnt have waste management systems, standards for water, garbage pick-up, or even a CDC.

Preventative health crosses all income lines, all political boundaries, all races and all sexes.

But it doesnt end just because you got a disease or injury. Its an ongoing process. Someone with diabetes, regardless of how the disease developed... meaning born with it, from obesity, or from injury or another disease process... requires ongoing preventative measures.

Someone diagnosed with hypertension is only seeing he beginning of the battle. Again this disorder has many causes, one being obesity

Cancer doesnt pick and chose, it just is, in many cases. Again, there are preventative measures that need to be explored from just having that one diagnosis and the treatments associated.

Initial preventative care is seen as basic hygeine and cleanliness. Thats a given. But it doesnt end there. It also includes vaccines, dental care, yearly check-ups. Depending on what shows up during those visits, other levels of preventative care are initiated.

Preventative care is care that prevents a disease process. Chewsie touched on a few of these. To expand upon her post...

Primary prevention avoids the development of a disease.[2] Most population-based health promotion activities are primary preventive measures.

Secondary prevention activities are aimed at early disease detection, thereby increasing opportunities for interventions to prevent progression of the disease[3] and emergence of symptoms.

Tertiary prevention reduces the negative impact of an already established disease by restoring function and reducing disease-related complications.[4]

Quaternary prevention is the set of health activities that mitigate or avoid the consequences of unnecessary or excessive interventions in the health system.[5]

Simple examples of preventive medicine include hand washing and immunizations. Preventive care may include examinations and screening tests tailored to an individual's age, health, and family history. For example, a person with a family history of certain cancers or other diseases would begin screening at an earlier age and/or more frequently than those with no family history. On the other side of preventive medicine, some non-profit organizations, such as the Northern California Cancer Center, apply epidemiological research towards finding ways to prevent diseases.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventive_medicine

To say that preventative care, or health care, is an individual mandate is misleading at best.

But health care is not a commodity. It is a public good. It must be in public hands.

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 9/28/2010 10:20:24 PM >


_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Health care lesson - 9/28/2010 10:41:16 PM   
TheHeretic


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But where are you drawing the lines of what is the community's issue to deal with, Tazzy, and what is none of their damn business?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Health care lesson - 9/28/2010 10:53:44 PM   
tazzygirl


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How do you draw such a line? Someone who has TB is putting the community at large in harms way. A teen was put into "protective custody" because he refused to take the TB medication.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article_news.aspx?storyid=102321&provider=top

If the government can detain you and have a legal proceeding based upon your refusal to take a medication... where is the line? Even an STD can be seen in the same light. Do we now say that TB is more contagious than those?

The flu is highly contageous, and affects millions each year. Yet, if you dont have the money, or insurance, you cannot protect yourself as those who "have" can. THIS is where the line has been drawn... between the haves and the have nots.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Health care lesson - 9/29/2010 5:51:35 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

The flu is highly contageous, and affects millions each year. Yet, if you dont have the money, or insurance, you cannot protect yourself as those who "have" can. THIS is where the line has been drawn... between the haves and the have nots.


Well they could always try to find one of the free shot sites http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/422018/where_to_get_a_flu_immunization_shot.html But if you can't locate one of those and  you can't come up with 25 or 30 bucks to get a flu shot, you have bigger problems than catching the flu.


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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RE: Health care lesson - 9/29/2010 5:57:40 AM   
tazzygirl


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Yes, a poor paying job that you cant afford to be sick from, so you give it to others. Interesting how that works.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to thishereboi)
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RE: Health care lesson - 9/29/2010 6:12:01 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

What constitutes preventative health care?

Do you consider health an individual problem or a community problem, or both?


Preventative health care is when you go to the doctor before you get sick for checkups, in order to catch things before they get out of hand. It is also getting vaccines to prevent catching illnesses. It can also include talking to your doctor about a diet if you are overweight or exercising more.

I think health care or the lack of it affect everyone, so I would go with both on that question.

Though there are more reasons not to take ANY vaccines. There are many in the industry that will tell you they are the modern snake oil of health care today.

*They have not been tested for efficacy and are as likely to fail as they are to succeed.
*They are exempt from liability if they fuck you up, i.e. side effects, permanent damage or illness...even death.
*They are in fact the cause as often as preventive for getting the flu as they weaken the immune system.

There are as we blog here...$Billion of unused vaccines sitting in govt. storage around the world now...why ?

The best known prevention for flu...is Vitamin D and as much sun as you can get.


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RE: Health care lesson - 9/29/2010 6:19:31 AM   
tazzygirl


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Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:

Smallpox is believed to have emerged in human populations about 10,000 BC.[2] The earliest physical evidence of smallpox is likely the pustular rash on the mummified body of Pharaoh Ramses V of Egypt, who died in 1157 BC.[6] During the 18th century the disease killed an estimated 400,000 Europeans per year (including five reigning monarchs),[7] and was responsible for a third of all blindness.[3][8] Of all those infected, 20–60%—and over 80% of infected children—died from the disease.[9]

Smallpox was responsible for an estimated 300–500 million deaths during the 20th century alone.[10][11][12] In the early 1950s an estimated 50 million cases of smallpox occurred in the world each year.[13] As recently as 1967, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimated that 15 million people contracted the disease and that two million died in that year.[13] After successful vaccination campaigns throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, the WHO certified the eradication of smallpox in December 1979.[13] To this day, smallpox is the only human infectious disease to have been eradicated.[14


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox

Now, what are those reasons not to take vaccinations?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to MrRodgers)
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RE: Health care lesson - 9/29/2010 6:23:06 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Yes, a poor paying job that you cant afford to be sick from, so you give it to others. Interesting how that works.


Maybe that is why so many places are offering free or really cheap shots. Of course you still have to get the person in to take the shot.


_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: Health care lesson - 9/29/2010 6:37:53 AM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

Smallpox is believed to have emerged in human populations about 10,000 BC.[2] The earliest physical evidence of smallpox is likely the pustular rash on the mummified body of Pharaoh Ramses V of Egypt, who died in 1157 BC.[6] During the 18th century the disease killed an estimated 400,000 Europeans per year (including five reigning monarchs),[7] and was responsible for a third of all blindness.[3][8] Of all those infected, 20–60%—and over 80% of infected children—died from the disease.[9]

Smallpox was responsible for an estimated 300–500 million deaths during the 20th century alone.[10][11][12] In the early 1950s an estimated 50 million cases of smallpox occurred in the world each year.[13] As recently as 1967, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimated that 15 million people contracted the disease and that two million died in that year.[13] After successful vaccination campaigns throughout the 19th and 20th centuries, the WHO certified the eradication of smallpox in December 1979.[13] To this day, smallpox is the only human infectious disease to have been eradicated.[14


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox

Now, what are those reasons not to take vaccinations?

Except that it is not true, small pox is stil being contracted around the world and the WHO is an essentially privatized health care dispenser of alarm and fear to try to create a pandemic where there is none. This is done in order for their principal sponsors to profit.

Look it up H1N1, ebola, avian flu etc. and the rest. See how may cases were really contracted, where they went to research and what they did about it.

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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