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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 1:29:35 PM   
luckydawg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead


quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

More here



I didn't know that Evangelicals were "protestant." The main protestant sects are Lutherins, Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans, and Episcopal.

Any Christian who isn't a Catholic is a protestant. Try googling "the Reformation".



Nope Coptics and Orthodox are not Protestant.

And Predate the Reformation by a thousand years.

This is ignorant Eurocentrism on display....

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 1:30:41 PM   
odysseyIndeed


Posts: 121
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Status: offline 		Are you talking about John? :)

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 1:37:52 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Moon, I don't think so, what about Baptists? They existed (before) the Catholic church and were never a part of the Catholic church and therefor had nothing to do with the Protestant Reformation.


Timeline of Baptist History

1609 — First English General Baptist church formed in Holland under John Smyth.  1609 is unofficially
        — referred to as the beginning of the Baptist denomination.


Timeline of Catholic Church

A Timeline of Catholic Church history
1-500 A.D.





Rule, keep reading, the Baptist movement existed before the Catholic church.


Well explain what I am missing then Popeye, because it seems pretty straightforward.

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 1:39:11 PM   
flcouple2009


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye125

Moon, I don't think so, what about Baptists? They existed (before) the Catholic church and were never a part of the Catholic church and therefor had nothing to do with the Protestant Reformation. They never "protested" the Catholic church by leaving it.
Many of the Evangelical churches are fairly "new" and certainly had nothing to do with the Protestant Reformation.
Just being "not a Catholic Christian" doesn't make one "Protestant." If it did then Mormons, Quakers, Friends, and the snake-chuckers in the mountains would be included no?
I was talking to a Baptist minister once and when I mentioned the word "protestant" he corrected me by saying; "we're not Protestants we're Baptists."


Yep that picture fits you to a tee.  Just throw out information without a care if it is correct or not.

Since the roots of the Catholic church are recognized as being in the 1st century AD and the Baptist Church in the 17th century I am not sure how the Baptist could have come first.

Anything other than the Catholic Church is considered to be Protestant as several others have already pointed out.

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 3:16:55 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Moon, I don't think so, what about Baptists? They existed (before) the Catholic church and were never a part of the Catholic church and therefor had nothing to do with the Protestant Reformation.


Timeline of Baptist History

1609 — First English General Baptist church formed in Holland under John Smyth.  1609 is unofficially
        — referred to as the beginning of the Baptist denomination.


Timeline of Catholic Church

A Timeline of Catholic Church history
1-500 A.D.





Rule, keep reading, the Baptist movement existed before the Catholic church.


Well explain what I am missing then Popeye, because it seems pretty straightforward.




Rule, look up the Baptist perpetuity, also the landmark movement.

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 3:39:39 PM   
popeye1250


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From: New Hampshire
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quote:

ORIGINAL: flcouple2009

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye125

Moon, I don't think so, what about Baptists? They existed (before) the Catholic church and were never a part of the Catholic church and therefor had nothing to do with the Protestant Reformation. They never "protested" the Catholic church by leaving it.
Many of the Evangelical churches are fairly "new" and certainly had nothing to do with the Protestant Reformation.
Just being "not a Catholic Christian" doesn't make one "Protestant." If it did then Mormons, Quakers, Friends, and the snake-chuckers in the mountains would be included no?
I was talking to a Baptist minister once and when I mentioned the word "protestant" he corrected me by saying; "we're not Protestants we're Baptists."


Yep that picture fits you to a tee.  Just throw out information without a care if it is correct or not.

Since the roots of the Catholic church are recognized as being in the 1st century AD and the Baptist Church in the 17th century I am not sure how the Baptist could have come first.

Anything other than the Catholic Church is considered to be Protestant as several others have already pointed out.




Fl, you kind of answered your own question, the Baptist *Church* was founded in the 1700's, the Baptist *Movement* goes all the way back to Christ!
And, if you were never "a part" of the Catholic church it would then by definition not be possable to be a Protestant, "one who protestith" or "protested the Catholic church by *leaving it.*
If I started a christian church, say...."Popeye's Church of Christ and Cadillacs" and had nothing to do with the Catholic church or any of the 6 or 7 real Protestant denominations how would or could my church be considered a "Protestant" church? It wouldn't be.
I did a research paper on the Protestant Reformation in college years ago (assigned! Not something I would have chosen.)

The picture? Oh that's Roy Roger's grandson.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/29/2010 3:41:11 PM >

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 3:41:52 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Moon, I don't think so, what about Baptists? They existed (before) the Catholic church and were never a part of the Catholic church and therefor had nothing to do with the Protestant Reformation.


Timeline of Baptist History

1609 — First English General Baptist church formed in Holland under John Smyth.  1609 is unofficially
        — referred to as the beginning of the Baptist denomination.


Timeline of Catholic Church

A Timeline of Catholic Church history
1-500 A.D.





Rule, keep reading, the Baptist movement existed before the Catholic church.


Well explain what I am missing then Popeye, because it seems pretty straightforward.




Rule, look up the Baptist perpetuity, also the landmark movement.


No Popeye, if you have a point to make then you look it up, post it, and make your point.

I've already made mine.

If you have something to prove then prove it.  Otherwise don't waste everyone's time.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 3:45:01 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Rule, I have nothing to "prove."
(Evidently Rule did look up the Baptist Perpetuity and the Landmark movement : )

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 4:10:44 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Rule, I have nothing to "prove."
(Evidently Rule did look up the Baptist Perpetuity and the Landmark movement : )


Yes you do Popeye.

Let me explain how debating a topic works, feel free to take notes.

I make a claim, then I present proof of my claim.

You can then dispute my claim by offering your own proof.

It is not my responsibility to look up your evidence.




< Message edited by rulemylife -- 9/29/2010 4:17:44 PM >

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 4:13:28 PM   
Hillwilliam


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Rule, I have nothing to "prove."
(Evidently Rule did look up the Baptist Perpetuity and the Landmark movement : )
[/quote

I looked it up and found nothing but a claim with ZERO documentation. Typical of Baptists in these parts.

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 4:56:00 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:


Took the attached 15 question quiz, in the article got 14, of 15 correct. I am the atheist remember people? I did better on the quiz then 93% of the rest of the population did, maybe that might lend a little credence when I say TO ME ALL RELIGION IS BULLSHIT........nah I doubt that very fucking much.


Nope, all it proves is you have spent a lot of time studying something you think is bullshit.


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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 4:58:14 PM   
Elisabella


Posts: 3939
Status: offline 		Yeah I also got 14/15 and I'm not atheist so...that proves something?

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 5:09:09 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elisabella

Yeah I also got 14/15 and I'm not atheist so...that proves something?


I got the same...

I am agnostic... it means I am interested in religion...but I have never denied it..

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 5:29:15 PM   
pogo4pres


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:


Took the attached 15 question quiz, in the article got 14, of 15 correct. I am the atheist remember people? I did better on the quiz then 93% of the rest of the population did, maybe that might lend a little credence when I say TO ME ALL RELIGION IS BULLSHIT........nah I doubt that very fucking much.


Nope, all it proves is you have spent a lot of time studying something you think is bullshit.



THB perhaps you'll remember I told you people I did the born again schtick as a teenager?  I did it for roughly 2 1/2 years before I concluded it was a waste of time and energy.  The final nail in that coffin was (as I have mentioned before) when the jerk-weasel minister had us hand out "tracts" in a Jewish "community/retirement" center, and there was one of my Jewish friends visiting grand mom, and I am supposed to tell these people they are going to hell for believing differently??

I then in my late 20's explored for about a year and a half the writings of the Buddhist monk Nichiren, the organization was called NSA (Nichiren Soshu of America) of all things.  Regardless of the name I concluded about 18 months in that this too was BULLSHIT, and other than my father's funeral, in December 1997, which all his brothers insisted be Catholic, I've not been in a church, looked at a bible or bothered to study one iota of what I firmly believe to be BULLSHIT.  That is the fucking point of mentioning I got 14 of the 15 correct.   That  people who go to church regularly did routinely worse, says something also.

I have said before and I'll say it again my very best friends two men I think of as brothers are both Catholic, one Irish Catholic, the other German Catholic, and I have VERY interesting and usually very rational religious discussions with the both of them.  The main reason I think for the rationality is we all know we're not going to convert the other and therefore do not try.  Now if you wish to interpret my feeling as "the Christians. should return their asses to the catacombs" so be it I am not going to change you nor are you going to change me.

I will not however be told to keep my opinion to myself, the first amendment of the constitution of these United States provides me with the opportunity to express my opinion, and until that amendment is repealed, well too fucking bad, so fucking sad you have to read my occasional rant about religion.



Religuliously,
Some Knucklehead in NJ



P.S.  I think it has been about 4 weeks since I last reminded folks that I (that is me) think all religion is bullshit.  If you can't tolerate that once a month you're not much of a Christian then are you?  See Mohandas K. Gandhi, for further clarification.

< Message edited by pogo4pres -- 9/29/2010 5:32:34 PM >

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 5:53:17 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

That is the fucking point of mentioning I got 14 of the 15 correct.   That  people who go to church regularly did routinely worse, says something also.


It may "say" that they are not educated about religions other than their own.

It also may say that they are under-educated in general, but that does not mean they are inferior to you, nor does it mean they are "wrong"

I get so tired of people who think they are superior to others based upon such superficial BS like education. Guess what, I know illiterate people who I thought were as wise (if not wiser) than most very educated people I have known.

quote:

I have said before and I'll say it again my very best friends two men I think of as brothers are both Catholic, one Irish Catholic, the other German Catholic, and I have VERY interesting and usually very rational religious discussions with the both of them. The main reason I think for the rationality is we all know we're not going to convert the other and therefore do not try. Now if you wish to interpret my feeling as "the Christians. should return their asses to the catacombs" so be it I am not going to change you nor are you going to change me.


If I were a religious person who had any interaction with someone who loudly and repeatedly disrespected my beliefs as you do on these forums, I wouldn't talk to that person anymore... your friends must be much more tolerant than you are, which to me bespeaks how their religion must be teaching some good values... like loving your brother, regardless of what a disrespectful jerk he is to you

quote:

I will not however be told to keep my opinion to myself, the first amendment of the constitution of these United States provides me with the opportunity to express my opinion, and until that amendment is repealed, well too fucking bad, so fucking sad you have to read my occasional rant about religion.



Spew away... racists and bigots have those same freedoms, so you do have that right.. hell, you can burn bibles, or a koran in this country too, just expect to have other people loudly denounce you for your "opinions".... it works both ways

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 6:26:56 PM   
pogo4pres


Posts: 593
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

That is the fucking point of mentioning I got 14 of the 15 correct.   That  people who go to church regularly did routinely worse, says something also.


It may "say" that they are not educated about religions other than their own.

It also may say that they are under-educated in general, but that does not mean they are inferior to you, nor does it mean they are "wrong"

I get so tired of people who think they are superior to others based upon such superficial BS like education. Guess what, I know illiterate people who I thought were as wise (if not wiser) than most very educated people I have known.

quote:

I have said before and I'll say it again my very best friends two men I think of as brothers are both Catholic, one Irish Catholic, the other German Catholic, and I have VERY interesting and usually very rational religious discussions with the both of them. The main reason I think for the rationality is we all know we're not going to convert the other and therefore do not try. Now if you wish to interpret my feeling as "the Christians. should return their asses to the catacombs" so be it I am not going to change you nor are you going to change me.


If I were a religious person who had any interaction with someone who loudly and repeatedly disrespected my beliefs as you do on these forums, I wouldn't talk to that person anymore... your friends must be much more tolerant than you are, which to me bespeaks how their religion must be teaching some good values... like loving your brother, regardless of what a disrespectful jerk he is to you

quote:

I will not however be told to keep my opinion to myself, the first amendment of the constitution of these United States provides me with the opportunity to express my opinion, and until that amendment is repealed, well too fucking bad, so fucking sad you have to read my occasional rant about religion.



Spew away... racists and bigots have those same freedoms, so you do have that right.. hell, you can burn bibles, or a koran in this country too, just expect to have other people loudly denounce you for your "opinions".... it works both ways


Actually Julia I almost never bring up religion with them, it is they that broach the subject about 9 times out of ten.  When they do they always say  "Well, I know how you feel, but........" and the conversation flows from that point.  I find religion as Marx once said to be the "opiate of the masses", so what.  Does that make me wrong, or just an opinionated fuck? 

I just find it a whole lot easier to muddle through my life without the need to be grovelling to an unseen, unproven, invisible male authority figure in the sky.  Perhaps when I shuffle off this "mortal coil" I will be proven incorrect, and hell is not just planet earth, as posited by former divinity student Jeremy Leven, in his hysterical book: "Satan: His Psychotherapy and Cure  by the Unfortunate Dr. Kassler, JSPS*

That you claim to be agnostic, and defend religion as vigorously as you do I find just a tad incongruous. 


Religulously,
Some Knucklehead in NJ


* "Just Some Poor Schmuck"


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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 6:40:03 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		Where do you hang out? I can go months without discussing religion with anyone, including Master.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 7:12:20 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

That you claim to be agnostic, and defend religion as vigorously as you do I find just a tad incongruous. 

Just as the religious people I know can't believe I am not an atheist...

I suppose I take some pride in the fact that both religious and anti-religion zealots attack me for my nonbeliefs. I am not a believer of any stripe... unlike you, so I understand your confusion. You are definitely out to prove something and to sway others to your beliefs. I do not need you to believe nor not believe. I am not trying to sway you at all one way or another. I am not putting down your views... that is all coming from you.

I know what it is to go to an evangelical church. I went to one with a good friend in high school. I thought they were weird, with the speaking in tongues, etc. I thought they were scary the way they would advocate for politicians...

I also remember when I was 19, and on my way to a rock concert having a group of evangelicals accost me on the street and call me a literal whore, tell me I was going to hell for doing drugs and listening to rock music. I literally laughed in their faces.

The stories you relate about these folks seems embittered. It seems a waste of energy to me, being so bitter about things that happened so long ago. There are some religious people that scare me (Sarah Palin, Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, etc etc etc) but that does not mean that there are not some of these people that are good people and decent people. I am not bitter towards them as an entire group of human beings. There have been those who did kind things for their neighbors because they believed in the example of Jesus. I have a hard time being bitter to someone because they believe something different than i do.... it is just perpetuating the cycle of hatred to feel otherwise.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 7:55:02 PM   
SuzanneKneeling


Posts: 233
Joined: 8/31/2005
Status: offline 		I saw that study, and it doesn't surprise me in the least.  And of course it is these same rightwing fundamentalist know-nothings who think Jesus loved the greedy moneychangers, had contempt for the poor, ignored the sick, spat on homosexuals and cheered on war whenever it was an option.   Glenn Beck tells them that's how Jesus was, and it never occurs to them to actually read their own damn "good" book and check it out.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: U.S. Religious Knowledge Survey - 9/29/2010 8:03:50 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		15 of 15, or in the top 1%. I typically, or at least used to, score in the top 2% on all similar tests. On a test given in Omni magazine back in the 70s, which showed if one has what it takes to join the Prometheus Society, I scored 37 of 40, which supposedly qualified me for membership. Personally, I regard that as a fluke. I'm certainly not as quick on the draw today.

I found the following sentence interesting:
" When education and other demographic traits are held equal, whites score better than minorities on the survey's religious knowledge questions, men score somewhat better than women, and people outside the South score better than Southerners."

That is consistent with other demographic data indicating the relative stupidity of Red-staters, particularly in the South, where white males defected in droves to the Rethugs upon waking up on July 3rd, 1964, finding, much to their horror, that they would have to share drinking fountains with Black Folk.

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