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It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/1/2010 6:50:09 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Looks like the Tuskegee experiments weren't some isolated weirdness.

In 1944, the US Public Health Service deliberately tried to infect volunteer prisoners at Terre Haute Federal Penitentiary with gonorrhea, but gave up because transmission didn't work well.

In '46-48 they went to Guatemala and infected prisoners and prostitutes with syphilis.  They just didn't set them up with the prostitutes, they scraped their skin and poured bacteria in the scrapes, and sometimes injected it into the spine.  The same doc who led the Guatemala experiments helped in the Tuskegee experiments.  The only reason the Guatemala experiments were halted was due to using too much penicillin.

Just fucking amazing.
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/1/2010 8:08:58 PM   
flcouple2009


Posts: 2784
Joined: 1/8/2009
Status: offline 		I can't help but wonder what type of individual can do things like that.

(in reply to thornhappy)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/1/2010 8:16:50 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		there you go again with conspiracy theories.

it NEVER happened.

you are online way too much.

govt can do no wrong. it did not do wrong then- it is not doing wrong now- and it wont do wrong in the future.



(in reply to flcouple2009)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/1/2010 8:58:27 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		I am not really all that surprised.  Informed consent is a rather new idea for medical experiments. 

I still find the Baby Albert experiment to be the most horrifying. 

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/1/2010 9:02:40 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Dayum.  Never heard of that one until you mentioned it.

(in reply to Aylee)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/1/2010 9:10:24 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		History is laden with examples of things done in the name of learning more about medicine and science (and sometimes torture, religion, or just fun and games).  Josef Mengele was not an original.  Don't get me wrong, he was a sick fucker, I just mean that he was not unique. 

Condemned prisoners figure prominently into many of these experiments.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to thornhappy)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/1/2010 9:11:34 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		they are still doing experiments and in ways that are not very nice.

(in reply to thornhappy)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/1/2010 9:20:57 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		Good grief!  It is the unknown and unnamed "THEY" again. 

Could someone please find me "they's" address so that I can go smack the crap out of them!

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/1/2010 9:28:49 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		if it makes you feel better- it never happened.

(in reply to Aylee)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/2/2010 3:18:44 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah, in the days before genetic sequencing and high speed computer modeling; volunteers from prison populations were often used for drug studies and communicable disease studies. Please not the "volunteer".

What made the Tuskeegee studies so heinous was that the study subjects were not fully informed of the consequences of the study. Totally misinformed and manipulated. The Tuskeegee Study gave prisoners Syphilis and were allowed to progress to stage four causing brain damage and even death. Yep, that is how the textbooks got the information on what, exactly, syphilis does to a person. Subjects in a medical experiment have a right to informed consent. They have to be informed of the risks and hazards of participation. Before the Tuskeegee study became public and the huge outcry, informed consent had no force in law.

Another population used for medical experimentation are the members of the armed forces. Who do you think gets first crack at those experimental vaccines?

Trivia... what was Louis Pasteur first famous for?
Guess what, he came up with the first effective treatment for syphilis. That was before his bacteriological studies came up with what came to be known as "Pasteurization" as a method to keep wine from going to vinegar.

Stefan

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/2/2010 3:24:04 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Yup- they use troops for experiments.

We wont get me started over sloppy disposal of toxic ash into the wind.

(in reply to MercTech)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/2/2010 3:59:15 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

What made the Tuskeegee studies so heinous was that the study subjects were not fully informed of the consequences of the study. Totally misinformed and manipulated. The Tuskeegee Study gave prisoners Syphilis and were allowed to progress to stage four causing brain damage and even death. Yep, that is how the textbooks got the information on what, exactly, syphilis does to a person. Subjects in a medical experiment have a right to informed consent. They have to be informed of the risks and hazards of participation. Before the Tuskeegee study became public and the huge outcry, informed consent had no force in law.



No.  The men in the Tuskegee study (1932-1972) were not given Syphilis, they already had it.  However, they were not TOLD that they had it.  They were told that they were being studied for "bad blood."  A term that had several meanings at the time, one of which refered to syphillis.  They were also not treated for it with penicillin even after that had become the standard and effective treatment by 1947.   They did not even split them up into a control group for study of the treatment of penicillin.

Now, because these men were not informed, numerous wives contracted the STD and children were born with it.

Another part of this study that brought about outrage was the fact that the men being studied were all impoverished black men.  They did recieve free medical exams, free meals, and burial insurance.  However, that really just does nt make up for allowing these men to inflict it on their wives and children. 

After 1972 is when informed consent and review boards became standard due to this study.  Previous to this, informed consent was not seen as something that was needed or that failure to have such was an ethics violation. 


BTW, Loius Pasteur is known for the rabies and anthrax vaccines.  Not for the treatment of syphillis. 

Alexander Flemming is the penicillin guy.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/2/2010 4:23:53 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I thought when Hazel O'leary apologized we were done with all these escapades of "the past".   Is it really in the past?

I ask- is it REALLY all in the past?    How about is it on US soil?   I want to know.  You need to know.

Is this madness in the past?   Is it?

(in reply to Aylee)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/2/2010 4:28:23 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I thought when Hazel O'leary apologized we were done with all these escapades of "the past".   Is it really in the past?

I ask- is it REALLY all in the past?    How about is it on US soil?   I want to know.  You need to know.

Is this madness in the past?   Is it?



What does travel excess have to do with human experiment ethics?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/2/2010 4:35:06 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

I thought when Hazel O'leary apologized we were done with all these escapades of "the past".   Is it really in the past?

I ask- is it REALLY all in the past?    How about is it on US soil?   I want to know.  You need to know.

Is this madness in the past?   Is it?



What does travel excess have to do with human experiment ethics?



The point is-  they are not sorry.  They are not finished and it will happen again. and it will happen to people regardless of who they are- ie being an American does not mean they wont mess with you.

Hazel Oleary-  Recall her.

(in reply to Aylee)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/2/2010 4:36:36 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1996-12-17/news/9612161068_1_uranium-plutonium-oleary

(in reply to pahunkboy)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/2/2010 4:38:55 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
The point is-  they are not sorry.  They are not finished and it will happen again. and it will happen to people regardless of who they are- ie being an American does not mean they wont mess with you.

Hazel Oleary-  Recall her.



US Sec of Energy under Clinton.  Only AA and only woman to ever have that position.  Had travel excesses that she apologized for.  Just what is your point?

PA, have you considered being treated for paranoia? 

It is obvious that you have no idea how things have changed since 1972.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/2/2010 4:41:37 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		O'leary Apologizes To Last Survivor Of Uranium TestsOTHER NEWS TO NOTE - NORTHEASTDecember 17, 1996ROCHESTER, N.Y. — The last surviving victim of secret plutonium and uranium experiments carried out by government scientists 50 years ago got a personal apology Monday from Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary. Mary Jean Connell, 74, a retired factory worker, was one of six unsuspecting patients injected with uranium at a Rochester hospital in 1946. In addition, 18 people were injected with plutonium. All 18 have died, as have the other uranium subjects. During a 45-minute meeting at a hotel, O'Leary apologized one by one to Connell and the families of seven of the plutonium subjects./snip
-If I am paranoid why did it happen again?  Why did they not clear this up in 1996?
Why?
??

(in reply to Aylee)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/2/2010 4:47:04 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
The point is-  they are not sorry.  They are not finished and it will happen again. and it will happen to people regardless of who they are- ie being an American does not mean they wont mess with you.

Hazel Oleary-  Recall her.



US Sec of Energy under Clinton.  Only AA and only woman to ever have that position.  Had travel excesses that she apologized for.  Just what is your point?

PA, have you considered being treated for paranoia? 

It is obvious that you have no idea how things have changed since 1972.



Lemme ask you this.

Do we torcher people?

Do we water board people?

Do we assassinate American citizens?

Are we at peace?

Do you really think this ends anything of its type?  This one apology.   They could have come clean in 1996.  But they did not.  Now they are "sorry".   They are only sorry until the next time that they get caught.



(in reply to Aylee)
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RE: It wasn't just Tuskegee. - 10/2/2010 4:48:53 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

O'leary Apologizes To Last Survivor Of Uranium TestsOTHER NEWS TO NOTE - NORTHEASTDecember 17, 1996ROCHESTER, N.Y. — The last surviving victim of secret plutonium and uranium experiments carried out by government scientists 50 years ago got a personal apology Monday from Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary. Mary Jean Connell, 74, a retired factory worker, was one of six unsuspecting patients injected with uranium at a Rochester hospital in 1946. In addition, 18 people were injected with plutonium. All 18 have died, as have the other uranium subjects. During a 45-minute meeting at a hotel, O'Leary apologized one by one to Connell and the families of seven of the plutonium subjects./snip
-If I am paranoid why did it happen again?  Why did they not clear this up in 1996?
Why?
??



Why did what happen again?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 20
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