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Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/28/2004 12:44:41 AM   
bottominwa


Posts: 240
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		This girl is relatively new to these baords, but not at all new to the Lifestyle. she doesn't spend a great deal of time online unless her Owner is deployed, as He is now, in which case she spends a lot of time online because it is her only random contact with Him sometimes for days, via im. So she peruses these boards to keep focus on her place and she uses third person, also to keep focus on her place as she stated in rhe thread on third person speech. Since she has been reading this board, a long time before she ever started posting on it....she has noticed that there seems to be a strong anti-Gorean sentiment here. Because of this she would like to address two things. One Goreanism and its two main camps, and Exstensiary service and why it is not as one poster recently said "mindless".
Within the Gorean community there are two main camps on ethos. The first camp bases their lifestyle primarily around the concept of a Male Dominant natural order. In this camp people choose castes based on their psychological preferences and by and large fcous on the cultivation of submissive females within their society. In the second camp the lifestyle is based largely on Norman/Lange's contention that caste structure is imperative to a "civilized" society. IE: human beings seek to join groups, groups which define themselves and through shared ritual and profession form brotherhoods. In this camp people choose castes based upon their actual profession. The central theme then is not natural order itself, but caste systems and brotherhood. kajiira themselves are not at all significant to the ethos of the society. No more than wearing bdus is to the Army. Its just a part of a structure, not the focus.
This house belongs to the second camp. We are Gorean in that Our ethos is tied to the Warrior caste structure Wde base our D/s and indeed Our entire lives off Our caste.
Being a full time real time Gorean the girl herself can not even get along with the vast majority of online Goreans so she can understand how they tend to come across as arrogant or elitist, but such is the nature of elective segregation. she also will note that by and large the first camp, the natural selection focused are the loud and vocal minority ever present online, and thus what apparently We are all being judged by.
Now...in a previous thread it was said that saying one is an "extension of their Owner's will" equates to "mindless" service. she wishes to debate that contention. she has been using this phrase for nearing seven years online, and she may have even coined it, because she doesn't remember ever hearing it from anyone else then...it came out of a discussion being had at Silk and Steele many many years ago now. At any rate, exstensiary service is by no means mindless. Micromanagement is far more mindless. Anyone can be told what to do. It takes years of trainig to know what to do intuitively. This is exstensiary service. The men she serves have no time to be micromanaging anyone, so They cultivate girls whose every sense is "aware" of the Free around them. IE, her Owner comes home from PT, He doesn't have to tell her He needs a foot soak drawn while He is in the shower she has already noticed a slight limp as He came through the door. she knows this was caused by either not wearing His arch supports or they are needing to be replaced. she checks and seeing they need replaced she goes to the store during the day and replaces them inside His athletic shoes, without Him ever saying a word. Clumsy example...but one gets the point. Exstensiary service is not mindless. It is ever concious of what is going on around you. The dogs in this house can be trained how to fetch things and hold positions, mindful service requires thought. And exstensiary service is all about thinking about what is needed and doing it, without having to be told to do so.

So, yes, this girl strives to be an extension of her Owner's will, and yes she is Gorean and if both of those things are so abhorent to the people on this board, then she will kindly exit stage left even.

sabrina King

kajiira

House of King/Warrior Caste/29th SigBN US Army

"my soul is in Iraq"
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/28/2004 3:18:54 AM   
Synocense


Posts: 255
Joined: 8/8/2004
Status: offline 		I personally could not even begin to see that sort of servitude as "mindless" - afterall, isn't that was training is about really? So a slave will eventually be able to anticipate his/her owners wants/needs? Just because an owner isn't verbally 'ordering' doesn't mean control isn't present.

My very first post on this board had to do with my opinion of Goreans - and I got my hand slapped, so I'll take a different route. lol

I very much agree with the Gorean philo, which is probably why I enjoy the books so much as I can "relate" to them. Humans segregate themselves, forming and choosing groups...or lifestyles if you will. That is our nature..as humans. Those who identify as Gorean are not doing this same thing because they are Gorean, but because they are human. Mr. Norman sat down and began writing a science fiction series, most likely never intending a group of readers to claim so close a understanding that they would
develop camps and incooporate the philo into their lives and call themselves Gorean. Not that it was entirely fictional, mind you...in other parts of the world, this is and has been in full practice, its just called something else...annnnnnnnnd....that brings me to my point. Its my belief that some people are less open to Goreans simply because the word came from a page off a fantasy book, therefore, must be fantasy, no matter how closely related to their own lives it really is.

Syn

_____________________________

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence?

(in reply to bottominwa)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/28/2004 6:14:15 AM   
deannalynn


Posts: 29
Joined: 8/4/2004
Status: offline 		Hello sabrina,

quote:

ORIGINAL: bottominwa

Since she has been reading this board, a long time before she ever started posting on it....she has noticed that there seems to be a strong anti-Gorean sentiment here.



quote:


Being a full time real time Gorean the girl herself can not even get along with the vast majority of online Goreans so she can understand how they tend to come across as arrogant or elitist, but such is the nature of elective segregation.


I think you answered your own question. One would be hard pressed finding many goreans who dont point out their beliefs and not be accepting of others. Many times they come across as bible thumping in their idealogies and their own ways be the 'only' way. Goreans point out often that they are goreans and for some its a belief of superiority. Also, they come to forums that are not designated 'gorean' and speak only about the gorean way of life.

I know when I attended local bdsm functions few people knew I was gorean because there was no reason to share it with anyone. Had I toted a sign stating that, if you dont accept my ways I am going to leave, they would have waved and held open the door. Too many refuse to adapt and when people try to enter their circle the door is closed tight.

Just some thoughts,

deanna

(in reply to bottominwa)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/28/2004 7:04:06 AM   
sweetpleaser


Posts: 689
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Florida
Status: offline 		Sabrina:

Thanks for the very informative post. I do not know much about Goreans myself. At first I thought to myself that they base their lives on science fiction. It would be like me calling myself Vulcan because I like Star Trek. I think it would have been easier to accept if it was written as philosophy like L. Ron Hubbard's books. But after reading many posts lately I see that Goreans have simply found a way to identify themselves as a group. They had the basic ethos and the Gorean books fit it, I believe. I may not agree with certain aspects of Gor, but that is not up to me to project. It is just not my thing. Posts like yours help a lot with understanding.

ann

_____________________________

~ann~

It's not the men in my life that count, it's the life in my men.--Mae West

(in reply to bottominwa)
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RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/28/2004 11:41:39 AM   
bottominwa


Posts: 240
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		deannalynn,

Actually this girl never said she was Gorean in coming here, but she was immediately baraged by ims about speaking in thrid person shortly after her first post here...so in the xplanation it came out as it were.
she doesn't necessarily disagree that one is "hard pressed" to find Goreans who are not accepting of others, but she will hope that you are not lumping her in this category, she works very ahrd at not passing judgement on anyone. she fails often, but when she does she trys to correct herself immediately.

sabrina King

kajiira

House of King

(in reply to deannalynn)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/28/2004 11:56:22 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline
quote:

I think it would have been easier to accept if it was written as philosophy like L. Ron Hubbard's books.

Uh, do you mean there was some deep philosophy in Battlefield Earth? I must have missed it because the movie sucked.

Though Gor isn't my thing, I can't bash the Goreans just because their ideas come out of a series of books because I have done the same thing. However, my style comes from Tarzan

< Message edited by happypervert -- 9/28/2004 11:58:14 AM >

(in reply to sweetpleaser)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/28/2004 12:22:28 PM   
sweetpleaser


Posts: 689
Joined: 8/5/2004
From: Florida
Status: offline 		LOL, oops, I forgot he had anything to do with Battlefield Earth--I was thinking of the Scientology books. I'm not into those either, but that is just me. I'm not bashing either belief system.

So, have you found a Jane yet?

ann

< Message edited by sweetpleaser -- 9/28/2004 12:24:46 PM >

_____________________________

~ann~

It's not the men in my life that count, it's the life in my men.--Mae West

(in reply to happypervert)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/28/2004 2:38:50 PM   
Laura


Posts: 573
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		I met a Gorean male sub once. He was quite delicious, a pleasure to use even though it was just online. He lived too far away. I'm certainly open to finding another like him.

For me there are too many rules in the Gor philosphy. I know it works for some. When I tried being a Gor sub it was a disaster. lol They kicked me out!!

_____________________________

Bait & Switch - Adult column

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Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/28/2004 5:16:34 PM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		heh, no I haven't met Jane yet. I was flirting with someone I thought might be Jane, but it turned out to be Cheetah. Hooda thunk a chimp could type?

(in reply to sweetpleaser)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/28/2004 5:22:54 PM   
EStrict


Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline 		Hi Sabrina,

Good post. I hope you will remember that some consider anyone questioning (even if in curiosity) something they do/say as bashing. It's not always meant that way.

The one thing I found confusing in your comments was:

"Anyone can be told what to do. It takes years of trainig to know what to do intuitively."

I personally have always claimed to be a *natural* slave... my *need* please is something inherent. And I have always claimed to be very intuitive,,, though when I was young I was so needy I ignored my intuition more.

If you are *trained* to know from subtle signs what your master needs, that is training, not intuition.

I agree totally with you that micromanagement is much more *mindless* thing, but, even though I am not the one who made the comment, I don't totally disagree with the thoughts behind it. It is a matter of perception. The original use of *slave speak* was to remind a slave of her place. With that in mind, a slave had to use it constantly would seem to be a *poor* slave.... but of course, that's a generality. Honestly, the reason you use 3rd person makes sense for you, and thats all that should matter.

Even though I wasn't even aware of the lifestyle when I was a military brat for my first 19 years and a military wife for the next 10 before he got out of the service, his being there never affected how *I* am. I do understand and relate well with the strict protocols involved with military.

Master and I closed on our house today. The first thing I did at the title company was to sign a quitclaim, which basically says the house is his, as is the loan. I don't *techinically* work, though I do earn money. But my *real* job is the detail person. Doing the things like double checking business letters, looking over the paperwork (and catching a $1200 error in his favor with the down payment), dealing with a 2 year old, etc. Yes, I have a VERY efficient, dominant side to my personality. But, I would go nuts if I had to speak 3rd person ('cause I find it annoying and tedious), and it wouldn't make me try any harder to please Master....

I personally have had some of the best conversations I have ever had with Gorean males. Master is not Gorean, but still follows many of the ethos of those who follow Gorean cultures. I do not personally consider my stating beliefs that some actions that I will just refer to as mainly *onlineisms* (even if the people practicing them are doing so in real life), to just not seem to make sense to me in my understanding of the basic ethos outlined within the books. I am not speaking of the science fiction aspects, I am speaking of basic mindsets and needs for certain protocols.

Well, that's long winded enough, and I do hope you don't take offense, as that is not my intention. I think it's great you and your master have found a way to make things work within your own relationship.

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to Laura)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/29/2004 3:24:15 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline 		First of all, I'm dubious about whether extensiary is actually a word, slave girl.

That aside, I have written a good deal on these boards from a Gorean point of view, and while people don't necessarily like or agree with what I have to say, I have not encountered much of the "bashing" that you are talking about. My ideas have been challenged, but I haven't been attacked for the most part just for being what I am. As far as third-person speech goes, if you are going to come to a public place and behave in a way that is very different from everyone else, it's fairly naive of you not to expect some raised eyebrows. Do you speak in third person to the cashier down at the grocery store or the bank teller? If you did, what reaction might you expect? Many of the folks here aren't any more familliar with third person speech than the cashier or the teller might be. If you insist on being different, expect it to be noticed, and potentially not well recieved.

Your division of Goreans into the "natural order" camp and the "caste brotherhood" camp is a gross oversimplification, rather misleading, and for the most part, inaccurate. Home Stone, Caste, Honor, Love of the Earth, and what you call "Natural Order" but which is really a far more complex view about sociobiology, and others, are all essential "pillars" if you will, of the character and ethics of a Gorean free man or woman. One scarcely has a defensible claim to calling themselves Gorean at all without a good understanding of and belief in all of these guiding principals.

That your master wants you to anticipate his desires says something about how he runs his home, and not much else. In my experience, most Goeran girls are explicitly taught not to try to read their master's mind and anticipate what their master might want, but rather, to learn the routine of the home as he sets it out and be present of mind and ready to carry out whatever command he might actually give them. What if your master had slipped during PT and banged his knee? He'd look at that pan of warm water a little funny, don't you think? If an outsider had visited my home, they might have seen a slave laying out my clothes in a certain way, brushing my suit, shining my shoes, or placing my coffee and the mail in a certain place for my review in the morning. An outsider might think that these slaves were anticipating my needs. They weren't. They were carrying out the routine of the household precisely as they had learned it, down to the smallest detail. Did I have to tell them to do it every time? Nope. Were they "freelancing" and doing what they thought I might want done? Again, nope.

Rather than coming here and delivering public ultimatums, maybe the better course would be for you to either engage in discourse here in a way that demonstrates the qualities that you are trying to assert that you have, or simply to find a place that suits you better. That is just one Gorean man's observation. Opinions do vary.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to bottominwa)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 9/29/2004 10:50:48 PM   
bottominwa


Posts: 240
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Master Leonidas,

she will ponder what You have written here and how it can affect her posts in the future.


sabrina King

kajiira

House of King

(in reply to Leonidas)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 10/2/2004 10:37:07 PM   
Gor


Posts: 7
Joined: 8/17/2004
Status: offline 		There has pretty much always been both Gorean bashing as a major olympic event in the broader D/s community and parallel to that a consistent dissent from within the Gorean sub-community. Each of these "frictions" have grown and even festered to some degree as on-line D/s has expanded over the years. In doing so it has formed a seperate entity from IRL, claiming not only a distinct legitimacy, but it's prerogative to make new rules, based in no small measure upon the anonymity (some would say disception) it affords.

The short version being... there were bumps in the road with Gor before, but with the online flaming it is way outa hand.

There are many points of view-- practically as many as there are insecurities out there in cyberspace.

With all due intellectual respect for what I presume is a fellow Master and his previous thread, in large measure the Gorean community is largely able to be-- in the broadest possible strokes, seen-- if not absolutely defined as a body (whichever origin you finally accept) with two streams leading from it.

AND-- each of these draw lightning from within and without the Gorean community.

Again, in the broadest possible strokes-- there are those that cling to the books and define their version of being Gorean from John Norman's tales. Then there are those who predate the writings, are of the previously identified "natural order" side of things and are for lack of a better way of putting it the *hardcore* D/s community.

From this rather simple set of principles and conditions you see clearly what gives rise not only to the ire of any female dominant, but a certain lack of comfort outside in(particularly for the natural order Goreans) the broader D/s world. Additionally, charges from within the group of those who call themselves Gorean-- that this one or that one is not "legitimately" of true gorean "nature" or intent, will always be plentiful and unremitting.

Of course that could just be My opinion (as I am sure a long line is forming up to assert even now).

HIMSELF

(in reply to bottominwa)
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RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 10/3/2004 9:04:05 AM   
Thanatosian


Posts: 765
Joined: 5/10/2004
From: New Castle, PA
Status: offline
quote:

Uh, do you mean there was some deep philosophy in Battlefield Earth? I must have missed it because the movie sucked.


read the book - much better than the movie (even though I kinda liked the movie, but then I'm a sci-fi nerd from the getgo) - as always when adapting a movie from a book, there are things that have to be changed or left out because they simply are not practical from a movie point of view, or if included would mean a 27 hour movie.

Even so, there were some deep philosophical points in the movie - love. a willingness to sacrifice oneself for the greater good, the value of perseverance, etc. you just have to look for them and they are right there in big bold colour on the screen in front of you.

just my tuppence

_____________________________

Apply Usual Caveats Here

An expert is somone who has made all the mistakes there are to be made

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RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 10/3/2004 1:52:14 PM   
Leonidas


Posts: 2078
Joined: 2/16/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Again, in the broadest possible strokes-- there are those that cling to the books and define their version of being Gorean from John Norman's tales. Then there are those who predate the writings, are of the previously identified "natural order" side of things and are for lack of a better way of putting it the *hardcore* D/s community.


I'll have to take your word for the fact that there was some group of "hardcore D/s" folks out there prior to 1967 who believed and articulated that D/s is the expression of a natural, evolved drive in humans, as opposed to being a "kink". I have never read anything by someone who was part of the D/s community that long ago that would lead me to believe there was, and I'm not old enough to have first hand knowledge.

That aside, what really puts you either "in" or "out" of the Gorean camp has nothing much to do with D/s at all, "hard core" or not. It has to do with which side of some very basic philsophical questions you come down on, and whether or not you posess some basic character traits. I would agree that there are some basic divisions among those who identify themselves as "Gorean", but I would say that the dividing line is between those who have seriously considered the philosophcal and character issues that I mentioned here, those who haven't, but practice some kind of "Gorean style" D/s, and those who role-play some kind of Gorean character online, but for whom being Gorean has no meaning when they step away from the computer.

_____________________________

Take care of yourself

Leonidas

(in reply to Gor)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 10/3/2004 2:03:58 PM   
Sundew02


Posts: 457
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		hello Gor, As I have stated before, this Domme seems to be ignored, patronized or flamed when Gorean is being discussed. So I would say the shoe was on the other foot when it comes to bashing. That of course, is neither here nor there. I have a tough hide and have been dominant all my life. So basically what you are saying what separates one of the two major groups from the other is WHERE they got their ideals, not that they are so very different from each other? In all instances of Gor women are not equal to men? Never considered a fellow dominant? Sundew

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~~~~~Enjoy the ride, the landing could get painful~~~~

(in reply to Gor)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 10/3/2004 2:09:01 PM   
Sundew02


Posts: 457
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Never been a real fan of the greater good myself, more the rock and anchor type. But then that's what makes life interesting isn't it? As a close friend of mine is a sci-fi enthusiast when was Battlefield Earth made? I am sure she would like to see it. Sundew

_____________________________


~~~~~Enjoy the ride, the landing could get painful~~~~

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RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 10/3/2004 2:29:55 PM   
NoCalOwner


Posts: 241
Status: offline 		Battlefield Earth came out in 2000, and was brutally thrashed by the critics. The site imdb.com, based on ratings by 13,000 site users, gives it a 2.4 on a 10-point scale, qualifying it as the 30th worst movie in the history of cinema. I bought a copy on VHS for my collection of horrible movies. OK, so maybe I do have a tiny masochistic streak.

As poor as all the ads look, they don't even begin to touch upon the unfathomable awfulness of _Battlefield_Earth:_A_Saga_of_the_Year_3000_ (the film's full, onscreen title). Not only is it hardly presumptuous to declare it the worst film of the year 2000, it is no exaggeration to call this wretched piece of incompetence one of the worst films ever made... an unspeakable, inexcusable waste.
-- MrBrown, all-reviews.com

There is no way to be intelligent when discussing a movie so repugnantly atrocious and unintelligible as Battlefield Earth.... Incompetent in every way possible, it is a collision course of non-ideas, zero-dimensional characters, shoddy special effects, blase performances, and a complete disregard for anything that could possibly make any kind of sense... Some movies have the quality of being so bad they are entertaining. Battlefield Earth, on the other hand, is so bad it's depressing. I would never throw around such words lightly, but on the evidence presented here, it may very well be one of the worst motion pictures I have ever had the misfortune of sitting through. A disaster of epic proportions!
-- Dustin Putman, all-reviews.com

Since I began writing reviews, I have never walked out on a film, but Battlefield Earth would have been a contender... Virtually everything about this movie is disappointing.... The final 30 minutes are so chaotic, badly edited, and poorly constructed that it's virtually impossible to figure out what's transpiring, and, on those rare occasions when the viewer is able to decipher the filmmakers' code, the story doesn't make any sense. I recognize that most summer movies are logic deprived, but Battlefield Earth has undergone a logic lobotomy. When holes are filled, they are done so with laughably absurd contrivances. During any given five minute segment, you'll find at least one. (When the film comes out on video, this can be a party game.)... Looking back on this film, I can't find anything nice to say about it. I despised the experience of sitting in the theater while the movie was unspooling. It is an instant front-runner for worst feature of the year, having separated itself from its nearest contender by a wide margin. Following my first, incomplete screening of the picture, I assigned a tentative one star rating. That proved to be too generous. Fortunately, critics and non-critics alike have joined together with one voice to savage this entertainment travesty.
-- James Berardinelli, movie-reviews.collosus.net

Battlefield Earth should be shown only at maximum-security prisons when a prisoner is tossed in solitary for bad behavior.
-- Max Messier, filmcritic.com

You don’t watch this movie – you survive it.
-- Steven Rosen, Denver Post.

That stampede you'll hear will be audiences racing to the box office for a refund.
-- Paul Clinton, CNN.com.

My thesaurus lists several synonyms for the word "dumb," but I’ve crossed them all out and printed just two words in their place: Battlefield Earth.
-- Jon Popick, Planet-Sickboy.

Battlefield Earth is so stupid it defies explanation. Not even Evel Knievel could hurdle the rifts in reasoning.
-- John Powell, Jam! Showbiz.

This is the funniest movie of the year. Period. It's so unbelievably and egregiously bad, you have to wonder if they really meant for it to turn out this way. I'm serious. We're talking Yor, The Hunter From The Future bad here.
-- Widgett Walls, Needcoffee.com.

It may be a bit early to make such judgments, but Battlefield Earth may well turn out to be the worst movie of this century.
-- Elvis Mitchell, New York Post.

Roger Christian has learned from better films that directors sometimes tilt their cameras, but he has not learned why…Some movies run off the rails. This one is like the train crash in The Fugitive.
-- Roger Ebert, The Chicago Sun-Times.

Each scene has been shot from a canted angle, forcing more literal-minded viewers to tilt their heads in order to follow the story and determine which of the alien baddies is roughing up what human… With his bad skin, uncouth dreds and ridiculous, ornate costumes, Travolta looks like an extra on the greatest White Zombie-GWAR music video ever… The aliens kill with big clunky guns that look like drainpipes and wear bulky uniforms from the Michael Jackson Gestapo collection.
-- Wesley Morris, San Francisco Examiner.

You're unlikely to see as hilarious a sight this year as the vision of pudgy star John Travolta wobbling on mini-stilts, trying to deliver bad dialogue as if it had been written by Shakespeare.
-- Jeff Vice, Deseret News.

Travolta gives a performance that would make William Shatner wince.
-- Edward Johnson-Ott, Nuvo News.

Travolta's Terl is the Snidely Whiplash of sci-fi, a laughable villain who would twirl his moustache if he had one.
-- Jack Garner, Rochester Democrat and Chronicle.

Travolta plays Terl as a sort of evil aristocrat, but overacts the role at every opportunity. It's like he went to the Brian Blessed School of Subtle Performance but was thrown out for laughing too much.
-- Chris Holland and Scott Hamilton, Stomptokyo.com.

Forest Whitaker [looks] like a cross between George Clinton and the Cowardly Lion.
-- Scott Van Doviak, Culturevulture.net.

Ker comes off looking like the offspring of Chewbacca and Yogi the Bear.
-- Michael Elliott, Movie Parables.

[Forest Whitaker’s Ker] looks like the love child of Della Reese and a Klingon… Most of the performances are bad -- notice how Barry Pepper screams "Noooooo!" in exactly the same melodramatic fashion when he is told his father has died as he does when his horse is shot.
-- Eric D. Snider, Daily Herald.

Ker, played by Forest Whitaker, [is] coiffed to resemble the Cowardly Lion in The Wiz… [The film] could be renamed Ed Wood's Planet of the Apes if that title didn't promise more cheesy fun than the movie actually delivers.
--- David Edelstein, Slate.

Battlefield Earth is the film Edward D. Wood Jr. might have made if he had been handed $100 million.
-- Joe Baltake, Sacramento Bee.

If 1950s sci-fi schlockmeister Ed Wood could have gotten his hands on $60 million and CGI special effects, he might have made a movie as hilariously gawdawful as Battlefield Earth… When the credits rolled, my cheeks hurt from laughing. I hated this movie, and I had a great time doing it.
-- Rob Blackwelder, SPLICEDwire.

< Message edited by NoCalOwner -- 10/3/2004 4:38:32 PM >

(in reply to Sundew02)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 10/4/2004 3:41:51 PM   
ShadowHwk


Posts: 158
Joined: 1/5/2004
From: New York
Status: offline 		Update: This morning as I went over this post, and the opinions of others, I realized that several things were not clear:


  • Your lifestyle is your choice and I DO believe in your right to live it as you see fit.
  • I do NOT condemn anyone's choice of lifestyle - period.
  • Where I do get a bit bent is when someone starts trying to convince me that Gor is real. It may be real for them. It may be real for those they interact with - but as for being a real place - that just doesn't work for me. YMMV.

I will leave the post intact - simply because I have no desire to hide my mistakes. I have added some additional comments below:



Hi,

First off this is an interesting topic. And since most have chimed in with their opinion I will add mine to the list.

And if I offend anyone in the process, please understand that it was not my intent - though I am aware that my remarks can oft times be construed as inflammatory.

So that being said, here goes:

First I tend to find the whole idea of expending a lot of energy and effort into trying to “bring to life” the ideas and philosophies put forth in a set of poorly written, misogynistic science fiction novels a bit silly at best; and a colossal waste of time at worst. And before anyone asks – yes I have read most, if not all of them – and enjoyed them as stories.

Second, the world of Gor does not exist, nor will it ever - no matter how often folks want to argue otherwise – and yes I have had them try and convince me as to how “real” their lives have become in a gorean sense.

quote:

Third, I’ve dropped into a few gorean chat rooms over the years – oh yeah, there goes a bunch of real stable folks, talking about riding tarns and having duals – and taking it all so seriously – and boy do they get a bit up tight if you happen to mention that “tarns” don’t exist.


Update: Ok that was pretty much a slam, and not a pretty or a fair one. In most BDSM chat rooms you see just as much nonsense - including the online scening by folks who have never touched a whip or a flogger.

quote:

A quick websearch will turn up all sorts of stuff about “Gor” and those how live the lifestyle. I found a site today (http://members.tripod.com/yerati_docks/yd-rider.html) which sort of makes one wonder why anyone with any sense at all would give any credence to the Gorean lifestyle. In particular, in the first paragraph it says:

quote:

“Those that feel they are been done injustice can call upon the 'Riders' for help. Help is not per definition given, yet matters that are of importance will often find willing ears amongst the troup and deeds of dishonour will be frowned and acted upon.”


Yeah right. I’ve yet to see a troup of goreans descend upon anyone and do anything, other than debate amongst themselves about who is truer to the ideals of gor. You notice if you read the quoted paragraph above that it says EXACTLY nothing. I says that “Help is not per definition given” – which gives them a perfect out for NOT doing anything. The web is full of so called goreans spouting this nonsense. Paper dragons – one and all.


Update: My cursory search of the web is not a very fair thing - the same shallow search for BDSM is likely to turn up just as much nonsense. My apologies.

Ok – I think I have managed to offend most of the Gorean minded folks who might happen across this. Please note that I couldn't care less about how you live your life, or what you choose to believe or not believe. What I do care about is when you try and convince me that it is real or is somehow deserving of my respect and/or admiration - the only way to win that is to be real.

Well I think I have done enough damage for one post.

Peace and Light
Terry

< Message edited by ShadowHwk -- 10/5/2004 6:13:34 AM >

(in reply to bottominwa)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Gorean bashing and Exstensiary service - 10/4/2004 3:57:42 PM   
cranialcarnage


Posts: 34
Joined: 9/14/2004
Status: offline 		Personally, after doing a bit of research on the Gorean lifestyle (which I didn't know existed until I came across this site), I just can't see the difference between referring to myself in the third person or letting my Master slit my throat rather than allowing me to walk away from the relationship and slapping on a white robe, waving a Maglite around, and calling myself Luke Skywalker. Both stories come from fiction, nothing more, and while I respect the rights of consenting adults to take part in this lifestyle, I retain my right as a human being to call those people crazy.

That being said, I shall now retire to my parent's basement to watch X-Files reruns and eat stale Cheetos.

(in reply to ShadowHwk)
Profile   Post #: 20
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