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The Church of Body Modification. - 10/8/2010 10:01:03 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		WTF?  http://apnews.excite.com/article/20101008/D9INNE480.html

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/8/2010 10:28:54 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

WTF?

From the definition of religion...

2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons...

That pretty much allows for a religion to be anything "a number of persons" chooses to call one.

K.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/8/2010 10:35:19 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline 		Well, its not quite that simple. The rules should follow the guidelines for tax exempt status:


a definite ecclesiastical government; a code of doctrine and discipline; a distinct religious history; a membership not associated with another church; ordained ministers; minsters who have been selected after courses of study; distinguishing literature; established place of worship; regular congregations; regular services; Sunday school for the young; and, schools for the preparation of ministers.

Churches established to skirt drug laws, claiming the drug is a sacrament, dont get away with it, no reason the Church of Bad Piercings should.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 5:25:36 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Well, its not quite that simple. The rules should follow the guidelines for tax exempt status:


a definite ecclesiastical government; a code of doctrine and discipline; a distinct religious history; a membership not associated with another church; ordained ministers; minsters who have been selected after courses of study; distinguishing literature; established place of worship; regular congregations; regular services; Sunday school for the young; and, schools for the preparation of ministers.

Churches established to skirt drug laws, claiming the drug is a sacrament, dont get away with it, no reason the Church of Bad Piercings should.


As usual you pull something out of thin air with no citation or reference.

But I'm sure it's true, you would never make something up.

Unfortunately, your definition doesn't fit considering the tax-exempt status of the Church or Scientology.



< Message edited by rulemylife -- 10/9/2010 5:35:38 AM >

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 5:38:17 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Well, its not quite that simple. The rules should follow the guidelines for tax exempt status:



The Church of Body Modification simply has to be a way for employees to get to have tattoos and piercings over employers' objections. Or, in this case, school.  And their name is ridiculously blatant about it.

I suppose that willbeur's suggestion is about the best that can be made.  I'd prefer that the school make its own guidelines, but that wouldn't be as defensible in court.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 8:20:21 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I suppose the question should be asked why the school objected to the nose piercing, was it a rule issue, a safety issue or just simply the nose piercing was one step too far for a pupil who has a history of challenging authority. In the case of the latter, who the fuck has got the right to tell others what they should look like, for there is too much of that. My thoughts today are that if creating a religion has the effect of circumventing authoritive oppinion, then go for it, good on them, use the laws that exist for a civilised society to make the authoritive figures in that society recognise laws exist for all. Everyone has the right to appear how they like to appear.

_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 9:31:32 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		the school objected to the piercing because it's against school policy that states that any abnomal clothing or body modifications are restricted because they are a distraction to learning within the classroom.

As for the church of body modification, I have a few friends who are members and their beliefs are not that much different from Native Americans who use Sundances to commune with their deity or Hinds pierce their bodies during Thaipusam or many African tribes who use piercings and scarifications as rites of passage or identification within their spiritual community.

And apparently a judge ruled that she should be temporarily readmitted to school.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/10/08/1747699/judge-high-school-cant-suspend.html

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 9:45:48 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
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From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

the school objected to the piercing because it's against school policy that states that any abnomal clothing or body modifications are restricted because they are a distraction to learning within the classroom.

As for the church of body modification, I have a few friends who are members and their beliefs are not that much different from Native Americans who use Sundances to commune with their deity or Hinds pierce their bodies during Thaipusam or many African tribes who use piercings and scarifications as rites of passage or identification within their spiritual community.

And apparently a judge ruled that she should be temporarily readmitted to school.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/10/08/1747699/judge-high-school-cant-suspend.html



Interesting the use of the word 'restricted', which I take to mean limited, and with that limited to certain groups, I wonder if those certain groups include religions, if they do, there is no case, as it is clear body modification with this person is their religion and those that tried to abuse this person's rights in actuality negated their religion.

Furthermore, I fail to see how a body modification or difference in appearance is a distraction to learning within the classroom, as let's face it, pupils face forward, towards the teacher, the teacher faces the pupils, which can only mean the only person who stands to be offended is the teacher and their lack of tolerance towards others.

It is a sad world this so called civilised world, but if it takes the formation of 'religious' groups to allow people to believe and follow what they believe, then so be it, for as society changes, what laws there are to govern us must change with society if they are to succeed in their purpose, as else laws and their instigators become a form of oppression.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 10:25:20 AM   
peacefulplace


Posts: 157
Joined: 8/22/2010
Status: offline 		~FR~

School's mistake number one: Caring if someone has a pierced nose.

School's mistake number two: Making a big deal out of it.

I couldn't care less if it has anything to do with a diety or snake handling or giving up meat on Fridays. A nose ring is not a big deal, and restricting someone from wearing one at school will not magically raise test scores.

_____________________________

If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.
~~Emma Goldman

One thing is clear to me: We, as human beings, must be willing to accept people who are different from ourselves.
~~Barbara Jordan

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 11:11:52 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Everyone has the right to appear how they like to appear.


In most states, in order to get a piercing, anyone under 18 must have parental consent. So, lets assume they all did.

While these students have the right to appear as they wish, employers have the right not to hire them. And there are quite a few in the US who would not hire someone with a nose piercing.

The cry for individuality is loud. But there are many ways to achieve that without the effect creating issues later in life.

I dont advocate the school telling parents what they can allow their children to do by law. But just as many teens get these piercings by other means than a reliable piercer and a consent form.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 12:21:50 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Everyone has the right to appear how they like to appear.


In most states, in order to get a piercing, anyone under 18 must have parental consent. So, lets assume they all did.

While these students have the right to appear as they wish, employers have the right not to hire them. And there are quite a few in the US who would not hire someone with a nose piercing.

The cry for individuality is loud. But there are many ways to achieve that without the effect creating issues later in life.

I dont advocate the school telling parents what they can allow their children to do by law. But just as many teens get these piercings by other means than a reliable piercer and a consent form.


And when the time comes that employment is the issue, the pierced person can then decide, a job in trade for towing another's line, or keep their individuality and let jobs offered by the intolerant pass on by.

I have long hair and I work in an engineering workshop, I have done so for the past fifteen years and I have given up with how many times it has been suggested to me to get my hair cut, my usual reply was you rented my skills, not my appearance. On the grounds of safety, well, I love my long hair and I make damned sure it is not going to come into contact with anything mechanised and when on the forge, welding or grinding, I wear a welder's hood and cape. Honestly it takes years to grow hair out, and mine grows slowly, I am not going to risk it for a job, for it is me, whereas the job is just employment which may cease with whatever the future brings.

But the issue in this case is a learning establishment, not employment, the onus should be on people attending class, being attentitive and getting good grades, not sacrificing a young person's individuality as they are in their teens, for we all know the majority of teens experiment with their appearance. What they do in earlier life, they take the responsibility for what they may regret later, piercings are small potatoes, for they can if it is desired be removed later.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to tazzygirl)
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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 12:22:45 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I have a few friends who are members and their beliefs are not that much different from Native Americans who use Sundances to commune with their deity or Hinds pierce their bodies during Thaipusam or many African tribes who use piercings and scarifications as rites of passage or identification within their spiritual community.

The difference, of course, is the belief it's truly a spiritual practice.



< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 10/9/2010 12:23:19 PM >

(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 1:47:12 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Simple, just take the nose ring out before you enter school property and after school is out just put it back in. Problem solved!
What if I belonged to a "Religion" that required me to let my dick hang out all the time?

_____________________________

"But Your Honor, this is not a Jury of my Peers, these people are all decent, honest, law-abiding citizens!"

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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 2:26:03 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
Status: offline 		I don't want to pull the thread too far off-topic, but this chimes with something we are seeing a great deal of in Europe:

quote:

PARIS, Feb. 10— The National Assembly voted by an overwhelming majority on Tuesday to ban Muslim head scarves and other religious symbols from public schools, a move that underscores the broad public support for the French secular ideal but is certain to deepen resentment among France's large Muslim population. The 494-to-36 vote, with 31 abstentions, came hours after the minister of national education, Luc Ferry, said in a radio interview that the law would stretch much further than religious symbols and require all students to attend physical education classes and accept what is taught on the Holocaust and human reproduction. NY Times


Does the state have any right to intervene in the personal beliefs of its citizens? If so, under what circumstances does it gain that right?

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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 2:40:25 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hertz

I don't want to pull the thread too far off-topic, but this chimes with something we are seeing a great deal of in Europe:

quote:

PARIS, Feb. 10— The National Assembly voted by an overwhelming majority on Tuesday to ban Muslim head scarves and other religious symbols from public schools, a move that underscores the broad public support for the French secular ideal but is certain to deepen resentment among France's large Muslim population. The 494-to-36 vote, with 31 abstentions, came hours after the minister of national education, Luc Ferry, said in a radio interview that the law would stretch much further than religious symbols and require all students to attend physical education classes and accept what is taught on the Holocaust and human reproduction. NY Times


Does the state have any right to intervene in the personal beliefs of its citizens? If so, under what circumstances does it gain that right?



It gains that right when there are attempts by one group to impose their personal beliefs on others.

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 10/9/2010 2:41:13 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 2:56:16 PM   
hertz


Posts: 1315
Joined: 8/7/2010
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quote:

It gains that right when there are attempts by one group to impose their personal beliefs on others.


So it's OK to tell people what they can and can't wear as a punishment, if they've been a bit outspoken?

Wouldn't it be better just to stop them imposing?

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/9/2010 4:28:52 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		The bottom line is people feel they can from an authoritive point of view given their age subjugate the younger to the point of view the instigator was brought up with, right or wrong .Attach a law, byelaw or  of a locally or regional construction be it common place or an individuals interpretation of it might give the instigator some credibility beyond their own intolerance, but as I said, laws are open to interpretation, intentionally vague so the law profession can test it's skills, undoubtedly for the simple reason to make that law watertight.



_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to hertz)
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RE: The Church of Body Modification. - 10/10/2010 12:42:47 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		And yet they can mandate uniforms.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Aneirin)
Profile   Post #: 18
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