RE: How low will they go?

RE: How low will they go? (Full Version)

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TheHeretic -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 3:44:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Do you have a reference to this claim by the Chamber? It's right there in the NYT link, Ken. Just a little bit up from the quote where Axelrod admits the Dems don't have a shred of evidence for their claim.

rulemylife -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 3:56:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl lol... i find this all amusing that the Republicans would be so upset at having their own game turned against them. Oh, I'm not upset, Tazzy. I'm just wondering if any of ya'll want to try to reconcile this bit of October shamelessness with the promise that brought our President to fame and power. Does anybody remember him saying this at the 2004 DNC? Do we participate in a politics of cynicism or do we participate in a politics of hope? You know what? At this point I don't even care whether it is true or not. The Republicans have had no shame whatsoever in promoting lies since Obama was elected. Death panels, his Kenyan birth, he is a Muslim, and on and on. It's really getting kind of pathetic that the GOP wants to play hardball but turn into whiny little bitches when it goes in the opposite direction. Yet another Big Republican Lie about President Obama

DomKen -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 4:20:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Do you have a reference to this claim by the Chamber? It's right there in the NYT link, Ken. Better read that again. I don't see anything of the sort.

TheHeretic -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 4:34:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Better read that again. I don't see anything of the sort. Then you might wanna get your eyes checked, Ken. Or ar you descending to the RML level of discussion? From the second paragraph above the quoted snip in the first post; The chamber has overseas affiliates that pay dues to the main organization but says it has a process to segregate those funds from any used for electioneering. And a bit more background below the initial quote The chamber is hardly the only organization playing a role in the campaign that has international affiliations and gets money from foreign institutions. Among others are groups on the political left like the A.F.L.-C.I.O. and the Sierra Club. The law requires them to isolate foreign money from any domestic political activity.

DomKen -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 4:38:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Better read that again. I don't see anything of the sort. Then you might wanna get your eyes checked, Ken. Or ar you descending to the RML level of discussion? From the second paragraph above the quoted snip in the first post; The chamber has overseas affiliates that pay dues to the main organization but says it has a process to segregate those funds from any used for electioneering. That's a useless statement. No source and no information on how the money is sequestered.

TheHeretic -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 5:07:21 PM)
Sorry it ain't good enough for your demandig standards of proof, Ken, but there it is, all the same. Care to address what happened to those noble ideals the President was claiming not so very long ago? Was he lying then, or just horrifically ignorant of what he was working so hard to get himself into?

Arpig -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 6:11:34 PM)
Of course he was lying...he's a fucking politician and he was campaigning...anybody who believes a single word out of the mouth of a campaigning politician is either supremely naive or an idiot. Lies...its what they do

Lucylastic -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 6:27:39 PM)
The faux outrage coming from Rich is as funny as thinking he believes any politician tells the truth.

TheHeretic -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 7:24:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail So, what I am saying is why is the fucking Chamber of Commerce laying money on candidates rather than figuring out how to find ways to get this country back to work and selling american goods and services globally (which I assume is going to be close to their stated (but not actual) mission)? And further, are they indeed obeying the rules of that political moneygiving? How fuckin low is that Rich? Speaking of specious arguments, Ron! LOL! Perhaps they are thinking along the lines of getting some sort of stable business environment for growth and recovery to happen in? Maybe the sort of environment where Congress lets people know what the tax rate is going to be the following year, before they adjourn until after the election? Maybe, as an organization, they think it important for the House of Representatives to at least TRY to pass a budget, rather than just assuming there must be money left, because there are still blank checks in the register? (This dereliction of duty is probably worth it's own thread) I know where I see the Chamber of Commerce membership plaques, Ron, and I'm betting everybody else does too. The odd little diner with license plates all over the wall, the one where I take company for very good breakfasts on the morning after, doesn't seem like a threat to democracy to me. Neither does the hole-in-the-wall used furniture place where I got the 1970's industrial desk my wife hates so much. Certainly not the run-down little beer bar where they will hand you an ashtray from under the counter. Nor the music shop, or any of the various craft specialty shops, or even the local used car guy (though he is an asshole). Perhaps, Ron, just perhaps, the Chamber has figured out that the way to get the country back to work and selling our good domestically and across the world, is to break the grip on power by people with no business sense? And here is another question for you, Ron. Why on God's green earth would the Dems think that demonizing every Mom and Pop shop left on the block is going to be a winning strategy?

TheHeretic -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 7:29:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Arpig anybody who believes a single word out of the mouth of a campaigning politician is either supremely naive or an idiot. Careful now, Arpig. The Hopey-Changey thing was the entire basis of President Obama's ascension.

Owner59 -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 7:39:07 PM)
I thought it was his Paris Hilton celebrity that got him to the w/h. That and teleprompters. [:D]

TheHeretic -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 8:47:38 PM)
It's always so nice of you come along and reinforce a point for me, O59. [;)]

DomKen -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 9:04:36 PM)
Small businesses are members of the local Chamber of Commerce not the US Chamber. The US Chamber is a tool of the big corporations. A quick check of the US Chambers website reveals that a small business with under $1M in annual revenue would have to pay 1k in dues to be a full member. which is astronomically high for a business that size.

TheHeretic -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 9:37:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Small businesses are members of the local Chamber of Commerce not the US Chamber. The US Chamber is a tool of the big corporations. Well that's just lovely, Ken. And you figure that distinction is going to be grasped by how many likely voters in the next three weeks? Perception is reality at this point. edit to add something I just came across. Here you go, Ken; in Pennsylvania, Vice President Joe Biden kept up the attack on the chamber and other groups that are spending millions of dollars in political ads against Democrats without having to reveal their contributors. "I challenge the Chamber of Commerce to tell us how much of the money they're investing is from foreign sources," Biden said during a fundraiser for Democratic Rep. Chris Carney in Scranton. "I challenge them, if I'm wrong I will stand corrected. But show me, show me." ... "We accept the vice president's challenge here and now, and are happy to provide our answer: Zero. As in, 'Not a single cent,'" said Tom Collamore, a senior vice president at the chamber. "We hope this clears it up, and hope the vice president keeps his word and stands corrected." link

DomKen -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 9:53:58 PM)
I was correcting you since you were the one trying to claim the mom and pop diner you frequent was a member of the US Chamber of Commerce.

TheHeretic -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 10:07:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen I was correcting you since you were the one trying to claim the mom and pop diner you frequent was a member of the US Chamber of Commerce. And I was talking to Ron when I put it that way, Ken. I think he already knows that the distinction doesn't exist where it matters.

DMFParadox -> RE: How low will they go? (10/11/2010 10:31:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Fact: The US Chamber of Commerce's general fund contains money derived from dues paid by foreign corporations. Fact: The US chmaber of Commerce's general fund is the source of the money being used to buy its campaign advertising. Fact: It is illegal to directly or indirectly raise money from foreign corporations for political purposes. What precisely is wrong with pointing out those facts? wait wait wait. I am completely ignorant of the issues here, so yeah. whatev. Going by this post and this alone, are you saying that some politico talking head is angry at other talking heads because foreign companies pay chamber of commerce dues? Is that the frickin' issue here? Because that is on the surface an epic waste of airtime.

mnottertail -> RE: How low will they go? (10/12/2010 7:11:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Perhaps they are thinking along the lines of getting some sort of stable business environment for growth and recovery to happen in? They might be thinking that, but I don't see any evidence that the folks they are backing have a prayer of delivering that. I believe they are simpleminded fucks with the mantra 'Republicans good, Democrats bad.' quote: I know where I see the Chamber of Commerce membership plaques, Ron, and I'm betting everybody else does too. The odd little diner with license plates all over the wall, the one where I take company for very good breakfasts on the morning after, doesn't seem like a threat to democracy to me. Neither does the hole-in-the-wall used furniture place where I got the 1970's industrial desk my wife hates so much. Certainly not the run-down little beer bar where they will hand you an ashtray from under the counter. Nor the music shop, or any of the various craft specialty shops, or even the local used car guy (though he is an asshole). I know where I see them too, in this small town, none in my window or any other bread and butter business on the street, just the tourista shops. I'll be goddamned if I will pay 300 bucks a year so I can get on one of their cartoon maps (hey, if you don't belong they shun you like a six-fingered amish with two assholes) that promotes no business, hell, they can't tell you where the post office is or if we even have one in this town of 5K people because they are not CofC members. [qoute] Perhaps, Ron, just perhaps, the Chamber has figured out that the way to get the country back to work and selling our good domestically and across the world, is to break the grip on power by people with no business sense? And while we are conjecturing exteme phantasms, perhaps not, just perhaps not. It is not as though there was a dive in the balance of payments post jan09 only........ quote: And here is another question for you, Ron. Why on God's green earth would the Dems think that demonizing every Mom and Pop shop left on the block is going to be a winning strategy? Cite that hyperbolic asswipe, Rich. I have seen no evidence of their demonization of every Mom and Pop shop...show me where the republicans have passed a small business assistance program. And a couple others, an anecdote or two does not data constitute. All I see is howling and waving hands wildly in the air about how we gotta go into Iran to protect our way of life, further robbing our treasure of money, youth and sending our nearly worthless money overseas. A pop (mom was a bitch and out the door with her) shop.

FirmhandKY -> RE: How low will they go? (10/12/2010 7:21:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife I don't even care whether it is true or not. In other words, no change from the way you normally operate, eh, rml? [:D] Firm

willbeurdaddy -> RE: How low will they go? (10/12/2010 9:25:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Small businesses are members of the local Chamber of Commerce not the US Chamber. The US Chamber is a tool of the big corporations. A quick check of the US Chambers website reveals that a small business with under $1M in annual revenue would have to pay 1k in dues to be a full member. which is astronomically high for a business that size. Less than $1M in revenue is a micro-business and wouldnt be interested in any CoC except for marketing purposes. It has nothing to do with your reading comprehension on segregating international funds.

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