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RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 5:14:54 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline 		Good post, HoH. Your second chart is a definitive example of a misleading, dare I say fraudelent, sales tool. As you note, a log-linear graph completely visually distorts the data. A log-linear graph simply cannot be justified, as there is no logarithmic function in the dats, unlike, say, a graph of pH vs. hydroxyl ion concentration.

I would also add this, from a Wiki Actuarial Science (weird, I'm thinking of going back to school for this at 57. Too old for Med School and can't deal with diff-eqs for chemistry ) article:

"Product design adds another dimension to the debate. Financial economists argue that pension benefits are bond-like and should not be funded with equity investments without reflecting the risks of not achieving expected returns. But some pension products do reflect the risks of unexpected returns. In some cases, the pension beneficiary assumes the risk, or the employer assumes the risk. The current debate now seems to be focusing on four principles:

financial models should be free of arbitrage
assets and liabilities with identical cash flows should have the same price. This, of course, is at odds with FASB
the value of an asset is independent of its financing
the final issue deals with how pension assets should be invested.
Essentially, financial economics state that pension assets should not be invested in equities for a variety of theoretical and practical reasons. (Moriarty 2006)."

The Social Security Trust Fund is a pension vehicle. Do you right-wingers understand? Because I know the mathematical basis for keeping Wall St. the fuck away from SS eludes 99.44% of you.



_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 5:25:19 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Hip,

I thought we were broke?

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 5:31:18 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Actuarial Science (weird, I'm thinking of going back to school for this at 57.

Do you have job already lined up or is this just an exercise in self improvement? Actuaries have been pretty much entirely replaced by software.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 5:37:57 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster
Actuarial Science (weird, I'm thinking of going back to school for this at 57.

Do you have job already lined up or is this just an exercise in self improvement? Actuaries have been pretty much entirely replaced by software.

Self-improvement. I might stick with straight statistics. Although going back for chemistry again appeals to me too. I was always very good at analytical chemistry.

I really want to keep my mind sharp. That's one of the reasons I learned German a few years back. Today I was listening to a very cool NPR segment about a Brazilian guy who, essentially, deconstructs and then reassembles traditional music such as the Samba and Bossa Nova. David Byrne of the Talking Heads introduced his music to the US back in 86. I am going to make my first music purchase since Ravi Shankar two years prior.
Anyways, I am thinking about trying to pick up a little Portuguese. Keep the mind sharp. Avoid turning into a gimme-capped teabagger moron. >shudders<


< Message edited by Hippiekinkster -- 10/15/2010 5:38:38 PM >

_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 7:27:26 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

9-11 was very good for gold and silver.



Wonderful.

Should we see if Al-Qaeda would be willing to do it again for your benefit?


(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 7:29:18 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Hip,

I thought we were broke?



No.

That's just you.

Hoard aluminum.

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 7:38:55 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Hip,

I thought we were broke?



No.

That's just you.

Hoard aluminum.

Fuck aluminum. Hoard cedar mulch. There's a never-ending demand for cedar mulch.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 7:42:45 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Hip,

I thought we were broke?



No.

That's just you.

Hoard aluminum.

Fuck aluminum. Hoard cedar mulch. There's a never-ending demand for cedar mulch.



That's only in Liechtenstein.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 7:43:03 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Hip,

I thought we were broke?



No.

That's just you.

Hoard aluminum.

Fuck aluminum. Hoard cedar mulch. There's a never-ending demand for cedar mulch.




Not to worry.   I bought more silver this past week.

(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 7:44:49 PM   
Hippiekinkster


Posts: 5512
Joined: 11/20/2007
From: Liechtenstein
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Hip,

I thought we were broke?



No.

That's just you.

Hoard aluminum.

Fuck aluminum. Hoard cedar mulch. There's a never-ending demand for cedar mulch.




Not to worry.   I bought more silver this past week.

You should have bought Haldol.


_____________________________

"We are convinced that freedom w/o Socialism is privilege and injustice, and that Socialism w/o freedom is slavery and brutality." Bakunin

“Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be accomplished alone; therefore we are saved by love.” Reinhold Ne

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 8:00:14 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		This list-  via people telling me that silver is a bad investment- made me buy more.


Did Social Security go up 271% ?     How about your 401k?



(in reply to Hippiekinkster)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 8:16:19 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Did Social Security go up 271% ?     How about your 401k?

My 401k is in the mid 6 figures.  How much silver do you have?

~stef


_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 8:19:47 PM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

Did Social Security go up 271% ?     How about your 401k?

My 401k is in the mid 6 figures.  How much silver do you have?

~stef




I have 271% more then I did 2 years ago, and all of it compared with none the day before TARP.

BTW- Good job on the 401k.  



(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/15/2010 9:09:15 PM   
seekingOwnertoo


Posts: 1323
Joined: 8/1/2009
Status: offline 		Hmm ...

Generally, Sandy Levin ... of the MI (not MN) ... whatever district ...

is pretty detailed and accurate ...

Nonetheless .... I find it interesting ... that the concept of the value added tax was invented by Gen Eisenhower's staff ... as a way to equalize trade value between countries in Europe.

Because the USA could base taxes on the labor of its enormous factory production.

Guess now that Factory production has all been exported ... SS is short of money.

Go figure ... not enough workers at a high enough dollar to cover the spread.

The apparent solution is to abolish SS taxes and simultaneously implement a value added tax.

Then the Chinese workers (or whomever) can subsidize SS and Medicare and ... hell who knows what else!

This is clearly what fair trade is all about!

Wall Street says "outsource" for higher stock prices. Executives, say outsource to cut costs.

And retired Americans ... get nothing ... because the rich need to make bonus? WTF!









< Message edited by seekingOwnertoo -- 10/15/2010 9:10:52 PM >

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/16/2010 3:11:59 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

  How about putting some of that money back into speculative stocks where the probability of intrest accruals are greater than what the govt is paying itself  


for 2 reasons. First, a lot of the differential between interest rates and stock returns is the risk premium...what the investor is rewarded in return for volatility. A government plan that reflects the risk premium in its current tax rates is really just shifting costs to later generations of taxpayers that are paying when the inevitable downside of the volatility hits.

Second, a large government investment in the stock market would drive up prices for private investors, beyond the fundamentals....essentially stock market inflation. So you are imposing a hidden tax on investors to pay for it.

Google "Jeremy Gold municipal pension funding"

< Message edited by willbeurdaddy -- 10/16/2010 3:12:43 PM >

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/16/2010 3:51:35 PM   
EternalHoH


Posts: 791
Joined: 5/30/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Second, a large government investment in the stock market would drive up prices for private investors, beyond the fundamentals....essentially stock market inflation. So you are imposing a hidden tax on investors to pay for it.




Well, you know, the stock bubble with its inflated prices and unreal valuations has been going on for a good 15 years now. So for 15 years, the elite investor in the private sector has been 'taxing' the little guy investor in the private sector.

Yes, you don't need government to have an inappropriate redistribution of wealth.


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/16/2010 4:02:05 PM   
VideoAdminTheta


Posts: 3967
Joined: 10/24/2009
Status: offline 		Please refrain from making your post about another poster. Stick to the topic please.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/16/2010 9:43:44 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EternalHoH

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

Second, a large government investment in the stock market would drive up prices for private investors, beyond the fundamentals....essentially stock market inflation. So you are imposing a hidden tax on investors to pay for it.




Well, you know, the stock bubble with its inflated prices and unreal valuations has been going on for a good 15 years now. So for 15 years, the elite investor in the private sector has been 'taxing' the little guy investor in the private sector.

Yes, you don't need government to have an inappropriate redistribution of wealth.





In case you dont know it, the "elite investor" took it in the shorts in 2008. The "little guy" did far better. And the last 10 years should make it obvious why investing SS funds in the stock market makes no sense.

_____________________________

Hear the lark
and harken
to the barking of the dogfox,
gone to ground.

(in reply to EternalHoH)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/17/2010 8:52:33 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		And FYI, as usual when we get away from politics and stick to economic/financial realities, I agree with wilbeur completely on this.

He's exactly correct.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Social Security Funding? - 10/17/2010 9:10:08 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Fuck silver, you should be buying uranium, plutonium and rare earths. You can name your own price for that shit in the Middle East these days...

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

(in reply to pahunkboy)
Profile   Post #: 40
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