Sleep patterns ? (Full Version)

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Aneirin -> Sleep patterns ? (10/15/2010 7:59:06 AM)

I got problems with sleep, it seems I am naturally nocturnal, which is not good if one needs to function in society, so I am looking for suggestions how to change the cycle to sleeping more at night and less during the day with the eventual result I am no longer nocturnal.

I have tried the alcohol knock out route, a few hefty beers ensures early unconscienous, but that doesn't work any more and I am not going down the route of increasing my alcohol intake as I see that as self defeating, unhealthy and expensive.

I will not take sleeping medication, as my liver has I believe enough medication to process already, but I recently experimented with malatonin knowing from past experience with jet lag issues, that stuff really did work with getting sleep cycles back into order, but my recent experimentation, didn't work, it seems I mentally refused to give in and sleep.

I have tried meditation, yoga, milky drinks all to no avail, it is simple to me, my mind is alive at night, it wants to be creative, which is good in a way, as I achieve lots of art work in the small hours, but I can't wake to go to college the next day, so despite the tutors saying I am gifted with certain subjects, I will not complete my studies if I cannot get to college during the day for lectures.

I have even under the odd notion of radiated emf having an effect booted all electrical devices out of my sleep area and turned the wifi off at night, but none of that worked, as it seems no ability surf, I will pick up paper and pencil and write or draw, which leads to more mind activity the opposite of what I need to sleep.

This has always been a problem for me from as far back as I can remember, the mind coming alive at night, that even despite being physically bombed out, the result being the burning the candle at both ends scenario and permanently being physically tired.

So, does anyone else have this or has had this problem, are there any success stories and methods of getting out of these bad habits, as I am all ears if there is a method I have yet to try without resorting to drugs or alcohol ?



pahunkboy -> RE: Sleep patterns ? (10/15/2010 9:08:58 AM)

the OTC is just a higher dose of antihistamine.

funny timing.  I just got up, it is noon. I am sliding to a later schedule and I dont like it.  Maybe it is the season.   One has to get sunlight.



Aneirin -> RE: Sleep patterns ? (10/15/2010 10:00:11 AM)

Ah yes of course antihistamine I remember that stuff in the form of Piriton, the only med available at the time to ease my childhood hayfever. Hmm, maybe that is a clue, for most of my summers as a kid I was so dopey during the day, sleeping whenever I could, maybe I got into a pattern I did not recognise until these last few years, so a lifelong habit to break as I had hayfever from age 4 through to 36.

Anyway, whatever, I wish to break the cycle, but if lack of sunlight is a factor, maybe I should consider taking a vitamin D supplement in large quantities to help out, as Vitamin D is related to natural melatonin production, which it seems I lack. It might even do something about the depressive issues I have.

Hmm, UV lamp perhaps...



Aylee -> RE: Sleep patterns ? (10/15/2010 1:42:12 PM)

Trite but true: Have a sleep study done and follow the doctor's recommendations.



switch2please -> RE: Sleep patterns ? (10/15/2010 2:17:23 PM)

I'm more of a night person as well. I've had insomnia for quite a while and had an odd sleep pattern for a few weeks - I could not get any sleep before 6 am, no matter what I tried.
I got lots of advice from CM users if you're interested...it's the 'insomnia' thread on the Health and Safety board.
Good luck!



gungadin09 -> RE: Sleep patterns ? (10/15/2010 2:21:32 PM)

i'm not sure there's a cure. i've had jobs where i had to get up at 3 a.m., and i still never learned to go to sleep at the proper time. Ah, well. Get more hours out of the day that way. But, seriously, make yourself get up early. You can train your body to get up at a certain time, even if you can't train it to go to sleep when it should.

pam



Kaliko -> RE: Sleep patterns ? (10/15/2010 6:07:46 PM)

I've had that problem on and off. I've noticed that when I want to avoid what I'm waking up to, I have a harder time getting tired the night before. I don't mean a once-in-a-while thing like I don't want to make a presentation the next day so I have trouble sleeping the night before. I mean when I am unhappy with an area of my life then I find myself going months/years with awful sleep patterns, in a cycle I can't break, because my "happy" time is at night, after my responsibilities of the day are done and I simply don't want it to end and cycle all over to something I don't want to wake up to again.

I've moved on from what was troubling me - found more peace, I suppose you could say - and I go to sleep now whenever I tell my body to. So, just a thought...perhaps there's a bigger issue than feeling more creative at night. Maybe not, too. But that's what worked for me.



DesFIP -> RE: Sleep patterns ? (10/15/2010 7:10:42 PM)

No alcohol. It prevents deep sleep.
No caffeine at all.
Go to bed and get up the same time every day. No naps, no sleeping in on your off days. Keep a very regular routine. If you still have trouble get a light box that comes on gradually before the alarm so you wake up in simulated sunlight. We are designed to get up with the sun, if we stay inside, it's real easy to have the circadian rhythms get screwy. So either go outside in the sun for 20 minutes when you wake or use the light box.



Nslavu -> RE: Sleep patterns ? (10/16/2010 8:49:28 AM)

One possibility is binaural beat technology. There are number of offerings out there. Sorting them out is problematic but if you mean business you can get it done. Do some research. Binaural beats essentially take your brain to theta and delta states, bringing on natural sleep state. Our brains emit these vibrations constantly (and also respond to them from external sources) and for the most part, some people find it difficult to get their head out of beta or alpha state. On top of that some people get angry when they don't fall asleep soon enough further feeding beta brain wave patterns, compounding the problem.

Other challenges could be as simple as lack of sunlight exposure that helps to regulate melatonin production, so one falls asleep more from physical exhaustion than natural processes of day/night progression.

There are of course other medical and scientific reasons for sleep issues, that one ought to discuss with someone who knows these things.

I think the important part here is dedication, (if the issue here is simply one of habit) especially to not sleeping during the day. The brain produces melatonin in concert with your own prescribed schedule. It gets used to the schedule you give it. Get up at the same time everyday, go to bed at the same time etc. If your schedule is scattered, so will the melatonin production that instigates sleep. The amount of time it takes to reorganize and change the habit is likely different for everyone but persistence toward the goal I think is well worth it. The whole universe runs on regular intervals, so regular meals, sleep times, etc. is the way to go.

If you have used medications for sleep, the process could take longer given that these medications essentially tell the brain it doesn't need to produce melatonin for sleep. It crutches the brain and sort of atrophies the production mechanisms since they aren't being used anymore.

In any event, don't take my word for it, do some research. If it's only a habit, it can be changed with a calm persistence. Don't get angry or frustrated when you don't fall asleep quickly.



Aneirin -> RE: Sleep patterns ? (10/16/2010 7:16:57 PM)

Thanks to all those who offered advice, it is much appreciated, but due to my own research into this issue, I just have to wonder at this

Now of course other articles on the topic say people are having some success with melatonin, it taken as a medication, now I know this stuff works, but it is illegal in the uk otc and my doc will not prescribe it to me, for I have already asked. What remains is for me to purchase it online, which may very well come.

Why melatonin is banned, well it went the same way as Kava Kava, which I used to use a few rears ago, both were very effective, but melatonin got banned first. The reason for the ban, well  what we were told was as usual someone abused it and came unstuck, so it was considered dangerous. I suppose nothing to do with the fact that those two otc drugs were very effective, non addictive and with no side effects I could discern, me being a conspiratoral type just has to wonder if lobying was in somewhere from drug companies that manufacture and sell dependable concoctions for insomnia.

But something else I am going to try, is change my lighting to daylight bulbs as that may very well help, but at least it will provide artistic lighting for when I again can't sleep and end up doing art work.



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